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[grumpymooselion]

WillPF363 wrote...
but DA2 is just "Immigrant  tries to make home, acquaintence breaks world"

Which,
after a bit of research, isn't a generic fantasy RPG trope at all. Ignoring the rest of your attempt at a quick synopsis, since the acquaintance didn't break the world, he just stirred a pot that had been on the verge of boiling over for quite some time.

More accurately it was, "Refugee escapes war, starts over from nothing, makes fortune, saves a bunch of nobles, gets stuck in the middle of a two-sided conflict in the making only for acquaintance to remove the one hope for peace, explosively, resulting in all out war." Still, down to its bare bones, far from generic.

Of course the idea that DA:O was done well is a little silly to anyone with long standing Fantasy genre knowledge, as DA:O's take on the 'hero saves the land from the dark army' has not only been done before, but done very very well by everything from film makers to writers alike, and more. It's the problem with tackling a subject so many, especially so many well known, artists have already well and thoroughly tackled - your take, no matter how unique, and it wasn't, just won't stand out to anyone with a base knowledge of the genre. With the exception of Loghain and the Landsmeet DA:O proved dull throughout, and very boring - predictable to an extreme. The only saving grace outside of Loghain and the landsmeet would be the origins themselves, each origin offering a set up and story 100% more interesting than the actual plot of the game . . . but we barely get into those better stories when we're ripped out of them, into one of the most draggy, overly drawn out and dull, 'save the land from the dark army' plots I've ever come across.

I'm not a fan of Dwarves, but I'd have preferred to just play out the Drawf origin story as an actual, full on game, but nope . . . you get to be a gray warden. It's a massive case of story whiplash going from something so engaging as one of the DA:O origin stories; then being plopped into the actual game, as to say, "You saw all that? That Origin you just played? It was great right? You want more like that right? You do?! Well, too bad, you get this instead."

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 13 mars 2013 - 07:33 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Emzamination wrote...
Not sure you're aware, but giving the player character highly accomplished pre-game puts pressure on the player to measure up to a preset status & goals.

If this is your point, I encourage you to be consistent in how you portray it. Your OP points out several instances where your character goes on to accomplish great things because of things you learn later in the game, all the while adamantly defending Skyrim for being a game where you're a character where you are able to accomplish great things because of things you learn later in the game.


Baldurs gate: You start as the chosen god child, who also happens to be gorions most skilled apprentice.

Skyrim: You start off as a dragonborn. But you say this is different. I think you're grasping at straws to try to substantiate your point.

Baldurs gate 2: You're a famous hero, the only one in all the world who can vanquish irenicus and the destined god to inherit your fathers throne.

I saw you make an excuse for why this one still counts. I disagree with it. It's a direct sequel of a game where you literally learn you are the spawn of the Lord of Murder. Of course the exploits will be accounted for, and it's absurd to think that they shouldn't be. This is like suggesting that Mass Effect 2 never make any reference to Shepard taking down Sovereign.

Never winter nights: You're the top recruit in the academy, favored by the headmistress.

I don't recall being the head recruit, but I don't really remember so I'm willing to concede the point.

Swkotor: Granted it's not revealed till near end, but eventually you find out all along you're the most beloved, cunning and all powerful jedi & sith lord in history.

Sorry, you have to be consistent, otherwise I'm going to think you're saying "Don't have our characters be anything special" all the while seeing you talk up Skyrim and thinking "this is the exact same thing...."

But if you're referring to "pressure," your point is invalid since the player doesn't realize the reveal until well past the halfway point of the game.

Jade empire: You're master lees most skilled apprentice.

Never played it

Mass effect: You're the most skilled soldier in the alliance and the best all of earth has to offer.

Shepard has an established back story and is slated to become an N7 Spectre. So I'll concede that he's already very accomplished. I'll disagree that this makes the player feel pressure.


Human noble - You're the favored child and one of the most skilled warrior/rogue people have ever seen.

I think it's safe to say Teyrn Cousland loves both his sons quite a bit. He openly calls you "pup" in front of an Arl, however, which could be construed as somewhat disparaging. Anyone suggesting that you're the most skilled rogue/warrior they've ever seen requires some level of context: they may not have seen very many and may live in an insulated environment. When I was growing up, a lot of people thought I was pretty badass at basketball. When I hit High School suddenly I didn't stand out so much, and in college I had fallen so far off the RADAR I wasn't even a blip anymore.


At this point I'm just going to wrap this up, but I literally am finding myself incapable of determining your actual issue since you have been changing your position and I'm only on page 5.

It initially seems as though you have an issue of BioWare's characters being some level of "chosenn one" in that they are unique, but then completely excuse this behaviour in Skyrim effectively because bananas.

As I go on, you talk about how we're hyped up too much to start, however, which I completely disagree with on several counts. Is this the point where I suggest that you should just concede gracefully? (A comment I wasn't too thrilled to see, by the way).

I could argue that Fallout 3 carried it on, as you were clearly the child of a very influential and powerful character and all the baggage that comes with that.  You weren't just some faceless schlub living in the Vault.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 mars 2013 - 07:44 .

[devSin]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Never winter nights: You're the top recruit in the academy, favored by the headmistress.

I don't recall being the head recruit, but I don't really remember so I'm willing to concede the point.

That's totally the story of NWN OC right there. "Yeah, I don't even remember it, so whatever." :-)

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jade empire: You're master lees most skilled apprentice.

Never played it

You're missing out. The combat is pretty sketchy, but it's a glorious game.

Do yourself a favor and take some time to play through it. It's got a lot of cool stuff.

[Renmiri1]

Don't bother Allan, I think Enxamination is on a trolling mood this week.

[hazarkazra]

devSin wrote...
You're missing out. The combat is pretty sketchy, but it's a glorious game.

Do yourself a favor and take some time to play through it. It's got a lot of cool stuff.

Slightly offtopic, but while playing it did you never get the feeling like: "I already did this in a KOTOR game"? LIke some of the mission tropes seemed quite identical. I didn't really mind, but when it made me infiltrate a training camp of the bad guys to gain favor with the instructors I felt it was pretty hard to ignore the similiarity.

[David Gaider]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Don't bother Allan, I think Enxamination is on a trolling mood this week.

Yes, I'm getting that sense as well. Posting topics just to stir the pot isn't really appreciated... and, if that's not the OP's intention, she needs to try a little harder to avoid the impression. Anyone who wishes to discuss this should feel free to start another thread-- let's just make sure what's actually intended is a discussion, however.