230 réponses à ce sujet

[Redbelle]

To restore a modicum of balance to the Bioverse I should point out that in DA:O you can play a dwarf who is a mangy no cast criminal who just happen's to good at belching and hitting things.

[Sol Downer]

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect. That wasn't pre-history. That power unlocks after killing the dragon.

It actually was pre-history, because it was still your innate, inborn power. That dragon didn't suddenly dub you "dragonborn" and give you your dragon soul when you killed it--you were born with that once-in-lifetimes gift.

Pre-history.

So you started out being able to shout and absorb dragon souls? Yeah, didn't think so.

Yes, actually. This is a power you'd already had beforehand, you just didn't use it until you ACTUALLY absorbed something. In ALL Elder Scrolls: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Battlespire, Redguard, and everything in between...you're already a pretty impressive guy, well-accomplished, even. Blessed by Gods at some points! The Elder Scrolls was the WORST possible example for you to pick.

[thepringle]

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect. That wasn't pre-history. That power unlocks after killing the dragon.

It actually was pre-history, because it was still your innate, inborn power. That dragon didn't suddenly dub you "dragonborn" and give you your dragon soul when you killed it--you were born with that once-in-lifetimes gift.

Pre-history.

So you started out being able to shout and absorb dragon souls? Yeah, didn't think so.

Actually, yes.
The Dragonborn is born with the soul of a dragon, from birth he/she is able to absorb dragon souls and learn shouts. The issue is, that until Alduin returns, there are no dragons to slay, and subsequently no way to awaken the Dragonborn's Thuum.

When the Dragonborn absorbs the soul of Mirmulnir it awakens the Dragonborn's innate dragon related abilities.

[Captain Crash]

I should point out people don't want to be Joe Average. Without a reason to be able to kill the dozens of enemies (and Bioware games have dozens, even hundreds) then playing as Mr Joe Average isn't very believable. Characters need a backstory to be able to do the things they do. Whether its supernatural or through lots of intense training. Sure they could learn these things in game, but then suddenly your better then everyone again. Doesn't matter if your born special the outcome is the same. If you can kill dozens of people you are "special" and better then everyone else so there is no point pretending your character doesn't have much talent. At the end of the day they clearly are a mighty hero.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 12 mars 2013 - 05:38 .

[Wulfram]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Yep.

Mass Effect never portrays you as anything special. Ever. The only thing "special" about Shepard in Mass Effect (that doesn't reveal itself until ME2), is his/her ability to inspire loyalty.

You're the one soldier chosen by the Alliance as it's Spectre candidate, and a famous person who people want autographs from.

Dragon Age one--you are not the favored child, in human noble origins. Your brother is going off to the war with your father. You're the "baby." There's nothing special there.

Dairren says "everyone says that you're more like to succeed the teyrn than your brother is.  That the Cousland line has never been stronger."  And the notes in the toolset says he's sincere, so he's not just trying to get in the PC's pants

DA ][ - please, link me to the codex entry that says Hawke is a gifted warrior/mage/rogue.

• Aveline: Tell me, how did your family escape Lothering? Almost everyone who hadn't fled...
• Carver:
  
  • (If Hawke is male) My brother. If he wasn't with us, I don't think we'd be here.
  • (If Hawke is female) My older sister. If she wasn't with us, I don't think we'd be here.
• Aveline: But you seem quite skilled as well.
• Carver: I'm not my brother/sister.

[happy_daiz]

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect. That wasn't pre-history. That power unlocks after killing the dragon.

So you're saying that even though they're born with the soul of a dragon, that power doesn't kick in until after killing a dragon? I call b.s.

A Dragonborn (or Dovahkiin, literally "Dragon Hunter Child" in the Dragon Language) is a mortal of the Dragon Blood (Dovah Sos), born with the soul of a dragon. It is a blessing from Father Akatosh, often bestowed on doom-driven heroes. Like the dragons, Dragonborns possess the ablity to absorb the souls of slain dragons, thereby receiving knowledge of the thu'um, rather than having to learn it through practice. There have been many Dragonborns throughout history, and the gift is often associated with the Emperor of Tamriel. Tales of heroes who would "kill dragons and steal their power" are prominent among the Nords of Skyrim.

Oh, nevermind, .

Modifié par happy_daiz, 12 mars 2013 - 05:40 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Emzamination wrote...

krul2k wrote...

for a hero to be a hero there has to be a spark of something great in them, something that makes them stand out an something that stands them above your ordinary ppl

if there aint something "special" about your character then sorry but your just some other ordinary bum an not worthy of a game dedicated to you

The elder scrolls says hello.

[spam image removed]

Honestly, I think every would-be hero in a RPG should start out as a prisoner on a cart.

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 12 mars 2013 - 06:36 .

[The Elder King]

While I could agree about BG and KOTOR, in ME you're not necessarily considered a prodigy, unless you're considering surviving an attack of thresher maws as more than luck. As the Butcher of Torfan, you simply shown your ruthless side in finishing the enemy no matter the cost. Only as a War Hero you have shown some really incredibile stuff, since Shepard single-handled the mercenaries until the arrival of the Alliance. Regardsless, Shepard is considered (in ME) as really talented, but not a "prodigy" or as the top soldier.
The same goes for DAO. The Warden is really talented, but as a Cousland you aren't a prodigy, as you aren't as an Aeducan. You're nobility, but that doesn't mean you are the best swordman in Ferelden. The City Elf as training since his mother taught him, but it's not a prodigy. The same goes for the Castless Dwarf. You're talented with your weapons, but not a prodigy. The only one who could be considered a real "prodigy" is the mage Warden.
Being talented doesn't make you necessarily a prodigy. And having basically no training in weapons or magic at the start of the game don't go well if in the prologue you killed dozens of enemies, unless they're rats.

About DA3, if the PC will be the Inquisitor, with enough power and/or authority, and he'll be one near the start, you can't be a nobody at the start.

Regardless, I don't feel any pressure on playing a well-know or talented character, or even a prodigy. Either way are fine, as long as it fits the story.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 mars 2013 - 05:41 .

[imbs]

Ultimashade wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect. That wasn't pre-history. That power unlocks after killing the dragon.

It actually was pre-history, because it was still your innate, inborn power. That dragon didn't suddenly dub you "dragonborn" and give you your dragon soul when you killed it--you were born with that once-in-lifetimes gift.

Pre-history.

So you started out being able to shout and absorb dragon souls? Yeah, didn't think so.

Yes, actually. This is a power you'd already had beforehand, you just didn't use it until you ACTUALLY absorbed something. In ALL Elder Scrolls: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Battlespire, Redguard, and everything in between...you're already a pretty impressive guy, well-accomplished, even. Blessed by Gods at some points! The Elder Scrolls was the WORST possible example for you to pick.

you are entirely missnig the point friend. It's about perception. In bioware games every1 thinks you are awesome in 1 way or another right from the off. In skyrim you are seen as a nobody at the start.

[grumpymooselion]

On the note about the Elder Scrolls.


In Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor . . . one would assume you're more than qualified if the Emperor entrusts the particular main tasks Daggerfall throws at you. In Morrowind you were the reincarnation of the Dunmer hero, Indoril Nereval. In Oblivion you were part of a prophecy. In Skyrim you are the Dragonborn.

In all four of these examples you are either supposedly skilled or special.

I would note that until you kill a Dragon in Skyrim you don't actually acquire the perks of your special nature, so, you are always special . . . but it means absolutely nothing if the player never kills that first Dragon. Oddly enough, you can tackle all the content in the game, except for the main quest and anything related to it, without ever coming into your 'special' power. You can't do the Dragonborn add on, but you can tackle Dawnguard I believe. It's the nature of the Elder Scrolls games though, you have that special mission or nature, but almost all of them allow you to completely ignore it.

The only one of the four games I mentioned that really requires you have some amount of skill already is Daggerfall, all the others you're just anybody, and without the perks of your special nature, unless you seek it out/stumble across it. So the answer for the Elder Scrolls games is . . . you're special . . . but not until you're special, except for Daggerfall, in which one just presumes the Emperor wouldn't send a complete incompetent. If that makes any sense.

[Emzamination]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Mass Effect never portrays you as anything special. Ever. The only thing
"special" about Shepard in Mass Effect (that doesn't reveal itself
until ME2), is his/her ability to inspire loyalty.

Really? Because I could've sworn no matter what shepards history (War hero/sole survivor/Ruthless) they were regarded as the best humanity had to offer from the get-go. Which coincidentally is the reason their name is put forward as a specter canidate. <link> I have to say, I'm surprised this is even being argued

Dragon Age one--you are not the favored child, in human noble origins. Your brother is going off to the war with your father. You're the "baby." There's nothing special there.

The baby who is rumored to succeed their father as teryn/teryna? right.

DA ][ - please, link me to the codex entry that says Hawke is a gifted warrior/mage/rogue.

 Gladly <link> <link>

[Warden661]

I think they should make a game that starts out with the birth of the character and lets you play their entire childhood, allowing you to determine everything your character does before he/she becomes a part of the main story. Because that's practical

Modifié par BoBear, 12 mars 2013 - 05:45 .

[Emzamination]

imbs wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect. That wasn't pre-history. That power unlocks after killing the dragon.

It actually was pre-history, because it was still your innate, inborn power. That dragon didn't suddenly dub you "dragonborn" and give you your dragon soul when you killed it--you were born with that once-in-lifetimes gift.

Pre-history.

So you started out being able to shout and absorb dragon souls? Yeah, didn't think so.

Yes, actually. This is a power you'd already had beforehand, you just didn't use it until you ACTUALLY absorbed something. In ALL Elder Scrolls: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Battlespire, Redguard, and everything in between...you're already a pretty impressive guy, well-accomplished, even. Blessed by Gods at some points! The Elder Scrolls was the WORST possible example for you to pick.

you are entirely missnig the point friend. It's about perception. In bioware games every1 thinks you are awesome in 1 way or another right from the off. In skyrim you are seen as a nobody at the start.

^ Thank you

[Sol Downer]

Janan Pacha wrote...

On the note about the Elder Scrolls.


In Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor . . . one would assume you're more than qualified if the Emperor entrusts the particular main tasks Daggerfall throws at you. In Morrowind you were the reincarnation of the Dunmer hero, Indoril Nereval. In Oblivion you were part of a prophecy. In Skyrim you are the Dragonborn.

In all four of these examples you are either supposedly skilled or special.

I would note that until you kill a Dragon in Skyrim you don't actually acquire the perks of your special nature, so, you are always special . . . but it means absolutely nothing if the player never kills that first Dragon. Oddly enough, you can tackle all the content in the game, except for the main quest and anything related to it, without ever coming into your 'special' power. You can't do the Dragonborn add on, but you can tackle Dawnguard I believe. It's the nature of the Elder Scrolls games though, you have that special mission or nature, but almost all of them allow you to completely ignore it.

The only one of the four games I mentioned that really requires you have some amount of skill already is Daggerfall, all the others you're just anybody, and without the perks of your special nature, unless you seek it out/stumble across it. So the answer for the Elder Scrolls games is . . . you're special . . . but not until you're special, except for Daggerfall, in which one just presumes the Emperor wouldn't send a complete incompetent. If that makes any sense.

It's about being special, not about skill.

[Emzamination]

EntropicAngel wrote...

<snip>

Because one can't be regarded as special or great based on skill? I sense a sematics argument. You lost this one entropic, concede with dignity.

Modifié par Emzamination, 12 mars 2013 - 05:50 .

[The Elder King]

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Mass Effect never portrays you as anything special. Ever. The only thing
"special" about Shepard in Mass Effect (that doesn't reveal itself
until ME2), is his/her ability to inspire loyalty.

Really? Because I could've sworn no matter what shepards history (War hero/sole survivor/Ruthless) they were regarded as the best humanity had to offer from the get-go. Which coincidentally is the reason their name is put forward as a specter canidate. <link> I have to say, I'm surprised this is even being argued

Udina has doubts about Sole Survivor and Ruthless Shepard, and putting the fate of the galaxy in his/her hand. Instead he praised War Hero Shepard. There's difference between them.

[Wulfram]

I'm not sure there's a clearly discernable difference between skill and talent, particularly the extreme skill exhibited by our protagonists.  If you're young and skilled, then you're almost certainly talented. If you're one of the most famous soldiers in all of humanity, it's hard to say you're not talented.

I'll also note that the OP specified "highly accomplished", which seems to translate to "skilled" as far as I can see.

Modifié par Wulfram, 12 mars 2013 - 05:51 .

[Emzamination]

EntropicAngel wrote...

You mean this? Carver:  "caught between the gifts of his apostate sister,Bethany, and growing skill of his more focused sibling Hawke."

Like I said, a semantics argument. Good day, thread -.- /exit stage left

[The Elder King]

And about the "rumour" of the Cousland Warden being the heir of the teyrn, it was proved false when Brice chose Fergus.

[Sol Downer]

Wulfram wrote...

I'm not sure there's a clearly discernable difference between skill and talent, particularly the extreme skill exhibited by our protagonists.  If you're young and skilled, then you're almost certainly talented. If you're one of the most famous soldiers in all of humanity, it's hard to say you're not talented.

I'll also note that the OP specified "highly accomplished", which seems to translate to "skilled" as far as I can see.

Huh, I attributed it to "Impact without Effort," since the original poster seems to want to come by their own fame, but doesn't like it when the fame is handed to them early on. My bad.

[Captain Crash]

Emzamination wrote...

imbs wrote...

you are entirely missnig the point friend. It's about perception. In bioware games every1 thinks you are awesome in 1 way or another right from the off. In skyrim you are seen as a nobody at the start.

^ Thank you

Yet you going to be the Inquistor in DA3.  Your going to have an important role straight off the bat.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 12 mars 2013 - 05:55 .

[Blazomancer]

Imagine if this 'blessed by a god' thing happened between the timeline of the game. You are average joe, you go to sleep, an angel blesses you in dream, and the first thing you say next morning - 'I know kung-fu'.
A legend is born!