230 réponses à ce sujet

[grumpymooselion]

Ultimashade wrote...

Janan Pacha wrote...

On the note about the Elder Scrolls.


In Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor . . . one would assume you're more than qualified if the Emperor entrusts the particular main tasks Daggerfall throws at you. In Morrowind you were the reincarnation of the Dunmer hero, Indoril Nereval. In Oblivion you were part of a prophecy. In Skyrim you are the Dragonborn.

In all four of these examples you are either supposedly skilled or special.

I would note that until you kill a Dragon in Skyrim you don't actually acquire the perks of your special nature, so, you are always special . . . but it means absolutely nothing if the player never kills that first Dragon. Oddly enough, you can tackle all the content in the game, except for the main quest and anything related to it, without ever coming into your 'special' power. You can't do the Dragonborn add on, but you can tackle Dawnguard I believe. It's the nature of the Elder Scrolls games though, you have that special mission or nature, but almost all of them allow you to completely ignore it.

The only one of the four games I mentioned that really requires you have some amount of skill already is Daggerfall, all the others you're just anybody, and without the perks of your special nature, unless you seek it out/stumble across it. So the answer for the Elder Scrolls games is . . . you're special . . . but not until you're special, except for Daggerfall, in which one just presumes the Emperor wouldn't send a complete incompetent. If that makes any sense.

It's about being special, not about skill.

It's about recognition, actually.

[Captain Crash]

Lathrim wrote...

I would love to see from where you got that, since as far as I know the role of the protagonist hasn't been confirmed at all.

Clearly I just made it up on the spot right.  <_< 

[BouncyFrag]

I'm not looking to be painfully average in the games I play, especially RPGs. If I did I'd be rockin' out games like Street Cleaner Simulator or pretending that I'm Conrad Vernner who has to dig through supply crates for junk and credits in the hopes of being able to scrounge up enough to purchase mail order costume armor.

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 12 mars 2013 - 06:03 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Emzamination wrote...

imbs wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect. That wasn't pre-history. That power unlocks after killing the dragon.

It actually was pre-history, because it was still your innate, inborn power. That dragon didn't suddenly dub you "dragonborn" and give you your dragon soul when you killed it--you were born with that once-in-lifetimes gift.

Pre-history.

So you started out being able to shout and absorb dragon souls? Yeah, didn't think so.

Yes, actually. This is a power you'd already had beforehand, you just didn't use it until you ACTUALLY absorbed something. In ALL Elder Scrolls: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Battlespire, Redguard, and everything in between...you're already a pretty impressive guy, well-accomplished, even. Blessed by Gods at some points! The Elder Scrolls was the WORST possible example for you to pick.

you are entirely missnig the point friend. It's about perception. In bioware games every1 thinks you are awesome in 1 way or another right from the off. In skyrim you are seen as a nobody at the start.

^ Thank you

Yes, and it is only after you start doing things that word gets around that you are the Dragonborn.

[schalafi]

Some people can't stand that rpgs are developed in certain ways for a real purpose. I can't imagine wanting to play an average person with no special gifts, or abilities. I play rpgs to help me relax and enjoy being special in some way, not to start out as some witless nobody with no talent, looks, or personality.

[Melima]

schalafi wrote...

Some people can't stand that rpgs are developed in certain ways for a real purpose. I can't imagine wanting to play an average person with no special gifts, or abilities. I play rpgs to help me relax and enjoy being special in some way, not to start out as some witless nobody with no talent, looks, or personality.

Maybe that's why we get smacked with a certain writer's macabre sense of sadistic humor in the end. 

[gonzalez.melissa53]

I have to say that I can understand where the OP is coming from but I disagree. First off, I don't think that there is "pressure" involved in any of this. It's a game. Giving a player character a back story and making said back story special or interesting serves the purpose of pulling (us) the players in, and engaging the player in the story line, the rpg aspect of the game.
I feel like maybe the OP could do better in requesting something different, and giving a persuasive example of what you would like to see. You might find it's easier to engage the Dev team with honey than vinegar XD.

Modifié par gonzalez.melissa53, 12 mars 2013 - 06:20 .

[schalafi]

Melima wrote...

schalafi wrote...

Some people can't stand that rpgs are developed in certain ways for a real purpose. I can't imagine wanting to play an average person with no special gifts, or abilities. I play rpgs to help me relax and enjoy being special in some way, not to start out as some witless nobody with no talent, looks, or personality.

Maybe that's why we get smacked with a certain writer's macabre sense of sadistic humor in the end. 

Thanks, I consider that a complement coming from you.

[Realmzmaster]

BoBear wrote...

I think they should make a game that starts out with the birth of the character and lets you play their entire childhood, allowing you to determine everything your character does before he/she becomes a part of the main story. Because that's practical

You mean something like in Fallout 3? You start off as an infant and get to pick your beginning attributes and skills.

[Trolldrool]

To be perfectly honest when I first played Neverwinter Nights, I didn't notice that I was supposedly the best student of the academy, so I always liked it. As far as I could tell, I was just some brutish thug from the nearby forests come to Neverwinter to receive training on how to become a better fighter and was lucky to be among the few who survived the attack. I don't think they made as big a deal out of it as other Bioware games.

Personally, I don't mind having my character become insanely powerful and legendary through the course of the game, but I don't like it when that greatness has more to do with my character's background than my in-game accomplishments.

Like NWN2 where you halfway through the game discover the only reason you're needed to save the world is because you got some fragment of a magical artifact lodged in you when you were an infant. You can be a courageus and skilled warrior or a powerful wizard, but ultimately the only thing that matters is what happened to you as a baby.

It sort of feels more like an accomplishment from a character perspective when I start from nothing and rise to be revered or feared by all through what I do after character custimization. So while I don't agree with everything the OP says, I agree that it's an annoying pattern in many Bioware games. Unless the plot absolutely depends on it to work.

Modifié par Trolldrool, 12 mars 2013 - 06:35 .

[The Elder King]

Lathrim wrote...



You're missing the point (and for the record, I don't blame you for it... Emzamination didn't make her case well if you ask me). It isn't about not having wit, talent, beauty or an endearing personality. It's about being famous from the start instead of building it up from the ground as the story progresses, like Hawke.

It depends on the story, though. Being a talented nobody would've fit DAO's story, since Duncan could've seen him in action and decided to recruit him (City Elf and Castless Dwarf fit this well enough). If howewer, in DA3 we'll be an Inquisitor early in the story (this only speculation, since we don't know almost nothing about the story), you can't be a nobody at the start of the game. You have to be famous, or at least known by the one who chose you for that position.
The same goes for ME. The Spectre recruits the most talented soldier of the galaxy, which have some experience. You can't be simple recruit and then become a Spectre after few hours.

[Twisted Path]

I'm just a bit sick of the constant praise and hero worship the protagonist gets in these sorts of games, and how it seems to be creeping in more and more. Whether the protagonist is some sort of chosen one or not it's just annoying hearing the hundredth NPC tell you some variation of "You're someone who gets things done. And you get them done the right way, because you're so awesome."

More NPCs who don't respect you at all (or better yet are as good or better at doing things than you are,) would be a welcome change.

[WillPF363]

There's pretty good reasons to have the PC to not only be talented, known to be talented in most Bioware games. I didn't get my start til KOTOR, so I can't speak too Balder's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, but you need to be a badass Jedi/Sith in Kotor to be able to face Malak. Your true identity was just good storytelling- and in the beginning of the game you're treated as just a Republic grunt.
Jade Empire- the PC is trained by one of the most dangerous men in the Empire to be able to defeat pretty much anyone but himself.
Mass Effect- Being a Spectre is what gives you the legal immunity to have all your crazy missions, and you need to be pretty special to be the first human Spectre.
Dragon Age Origins- You have to be good enough to impress Duncan and be recruited.
Dragon Age 2- I would say you're not treated as special right from the get go in this one. Early in the game you don't get much respect, and those that have heard of you or do respect you do so because you've earned a reputation working with the Mercenaries or Smugglers.

[Droma]

so to sum this up:

the elder scrolls does it right because you are the dragon born, but people don't know that until you slay your first dragon, so you start as a nobody. Dragon Age 2 on the other hand does it wrong because you are very talented and strong, but start as a nobody?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Modifié par Droma, 12 mars 2013 - 07:11 .

[Realmzmaster]

I do not remember any crpg (except maybe some games in the Fallout series) where you begin as a nobody not even a talented nobody. A person or persons with talent always tend stand out from the crowd that person is associated. Someone always recognizes that the person has something that others do not that makes them different or special.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Emzamination wrote...

• Never winter nights: You're the top recruit in the academy, favored by the headmistress.

It's hard not to be "favored by the headmistress" when you're the only one who survived.

[Zkyire]

Some random peasant with no powers or skills would be killed before the prologue even ended.

[Renmiri1]

Emzamination wrote...

Bioware, please stop trying to turn my protagonist into a prodigy before their time and before I'm ready. I appreciate the self-esteem boost guys, but I need to achieve my own fame and accomplish my own deeds in game. 

No

99% of young adult literature says hi!

[thats1evildude]

Events will always conspire to place the hero in unique circumstances: they're the only one that can wield the special sword of Infinity Plus +1, they come from a special legacy, they have unique powers, they're the last members of X organization, nobody will believe them about the monster down the street, etc.

"Please stop making me so special" is essentially a wish to do away with the narrative entirely. 

Modifié par thats1evildude, 12 mars 2013 - 07:19 .

[brushyourteeth]

I like where this thread is going.

I don't think this concept is new to the DA team, however. They essentially tried to make Hawke a nobody-turned-hero in DAII. The execution wasn't perfect. But it was neat having to work your way up to champion status, realizing all the while that half of your reputation was due to Varric and his big mouth.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Zkyire wrote...

Some random peasant with no powers or skills would be killed before the prologue even ended.

Then you start over.

Recall that early editions of D&D encouraged you not to bother naming your character until he reached level 5, because he would almost certainly die before that happened.

If your character is pre-determined to be great, where's the achievement in making him great?  I'd certainly rather feel like I accomplished something rather than be handed inevitable success.

[Lord Issa]

Lathrim: Inquisition was leaked, before the announcement from Bioware. The details are admittedly still suspect, but the source seemed very clear that you would become an Inquisitor and it implied that you would be in charge (although I think it implies that you earn the status so it's a moot point anyway) Hope this helps!

I kind of see where you're coming from, TC, but to be honest I don't mind being born a provileged character-one could argue that the rags-to-riches story is equally cliched.