230 réponses à ce sujet

[Withidread]

Emzamination wrote...

Bioware, please stop trying to turn my protagonist into a prodigy before their time and before I'm ready. I appreciate the self-esteem boost guys, but I need to achieve my own fame and accomplish my own deeds in game. Not sure you're aware, but giving the player character highly accomplished pre-game puts pressure on the player to measure up to a preset status & goals. This can't continue, and it has to stop. I mean you guys do this in every single game.

• Baldurs gate: You start as the chosen god child, who also happens to be gorions most skilled apprentice.
• Baldurs gate 2: You're a famous hero, the only one in all the world who can vanquish irenicus and the destined god to inherit your fathers throne.
• Never winter nights: You're the top recruit in the academy, favored by the headmistress.
• Swkotor: Granted it's not revealed till near end, but eventually you find out all along you're the most beloved, cunning and all powerful jedi & sith lord in history.
• Jade empire: You're master lees most skilled apprentice.
• Mass effect: You're the most skilled soldier in the alliance and the best all of earth has to offer.

Dragon Age origins:

•  Human noble - You're the favored child and one of the most skilled warrior/rogue people have ever seen.
• Dalish elf - Your parents were dalish royalty and you're the keepers favourite
• city elf - Your mother was an elite warrior/rogue and now you're regarded as such because she's pass her skills on to you.
• Mage - You're irvings star apprentice and one of the most gifted mages the tower has ever seen.

Dragon age 2: To the naked eye, hawke may look like a blank slate who comes from horrible origins, but flip open that codex, and you find out hawke is already a highly gifted mage/warrior/rogue, the family favourite and bread winner.

Bioware Enough!  Please, no more pats on the head for things I've never done and no more being born special. I want to start off as plain nobody jane with no special history like I can in skyrim and fallout. I'll become the suma-******-laude of thedas eventually, but in da3 I need to do it on my time and on my terms, through my own acomplishments.

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for, but there's a limit to how much of an "average joe" you can make a main character and still have the rest of the story make sense. Why does the player character survive or excel or get chosen over anyone else? There needs to be a reason, otherwise you have a series of events that could have been taken care of by any old schlub off the street. Generally, that doesn't make for a very interesting story in my opinion.

BG 1 & 2 (these must be considered together as the sequel is a continuation of the same storyline): You are one of many bhaal spawn, special only in that you are Gorion's ward.

NWN: Yes, you're the top recruit, but you are one recruit of many. Who else would you expect to survive the attack? The bottom of the class?

SWKOTOR: Yeah I got nothin on this one, only that the story wouldn't be nearly as interesting and it wouldn't really make sense for a random person off the street to do what the PC does. Why is it so easy for the PC and not everybody else?

Jade Empire: The entire premise of the game revolves around you being the last spirit monk. Master Li requires the PC to be his top student to ensure their future success. Without the spirit monk premise, there is no game as none of the involved characters have motivations to take the actions that they do.

Mass Effect: Again, are you expecting them to pull Joe Everyman off the street to become a spectre? That doesn't make sense to me.

Dragon Age Origins... To me this seems probably as close to what you're asking for as could be reasonably expected. There isn't a 'chosen one' per se, as there are a number of people able to fill the role of warden.

1) Human Noble: You're the younger sibling, your older brother is the heir not you. Given the family and position, not only is it not unreasonable for the younger sibling to excel in their chosen martial discipline, its expected.
2) Dalish Elf: Beyond it being mentioned, this didn't seem to play nearly the significant role you seem to be portraying it as. The exceptionalism here is circumstantial, the events that take place at the eluvian are what determine your path.
3) City Elf: Your mother's skills, and the fact that they were passed on to you, seem to make you more of a social pariah in the alienage than anything. Also, your average city elf is not capable of slaughtering an entire palace full of guards. Just sayin'.
4) Tower Mage: Gifted student yes, but until your harrowing which is apparantly "one of the quickest and cleanest they've seen" there's little evidence of you standing out beyond that. Irving's comments prior to the harrowing seem more reflective of his personality and a genuine concern for young mages as opposed to anything related to you specifically.

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Really? In BG1 you were raised by Gorion in Candlekeep. This is about as specific as backstory gets.

I didn't say we could every time.

Sure. Just pointing out that there's no progression here. Bio once experimented with doing this feature the way you like it, but they didn't start there and didn't stick with it when they did try it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 mars 2013 - 03:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm not claiming progression. I'm claiming that they have done it at least once.

Just like they have once given us inventory tetris (NWN). And they have once given us open exploration (BG). And they have once given us action combat (JE).  And they have once given us full tactical party control in a 3D environment (DAO).

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 13 mars 2013 - 04:51 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Didn't you create a thread explaining how you want the EXACT opposite of what you have described in the OP? Something about the protagonist having experience and having reputation, I believe.

[Eco1988]

I think a lot of people on this thread may have played a different Mass Effect than me. In my Mass Effect playthrough, people didn't respect my character because he was the first human Spectre, they respected him because he was Shepard. They respected me because I ran in a crew with a Krogan who respected me, because I walked my black ass into the Citadel and shot Saren the f*ck down after saving the Council. They respected me because I took down Fist, because I survived the suicide mission without losing a single squadmate, because I brought peace between the Geth and the Quarians, because I fought a Reaper on a cliff with a satellite laser. Shockingly enough, my character managed to do all of that in game, not before it. I made myself a legend.

[Eco1988]

Same can be said for Dragon Age Origins 1 and 2. People might have known my name within my respective villages sure, but people know who am I within my hometown too. My character became special because I played him well and the game let me make him special for my own reasons. With the exception of KOTOR and NWN, this kinda seems to be the case with most Bioware games. You don't win because you're trained, you stand a chance because you're trained, you win because you play the game.

[imbs]

Eco1988 wrote...

Same can be said for Dragon Age Origins 1 and 2. People might have known my name within my respective villages sure, but people know who am I within my hometown too. My character became special because I played him well and the game let me make him special for my own reasons. With the exception of KOTOR and NWN, this kinda seems to be the case with most Bioware games. You don't win because you're trained, you stand a chance because you're trained, you win because you play the game.

lol no. your character did not become special because "u played him well" he became special by default.

[masster blaster]

Emzamination wrote...

krul2k wrote...

for a hero to be a hero there has to be a spark of something great in them, something that makes them stand out an something that stands them above your ordinary ppl

if there aint something "special" about your character then sorry but your just some other ordinary bum an not worthy of a game dedicated to you

The elder scrolls says hello.

In Truth half of the elder scroll characters DO in fact have a prodigy back ground.

Yet
your missing the point. With the "prodigy" background then how else
does Shepard from ME actually GET to go on the Normandy/ be a part of
Anderson's team/ be notice to become a specter, IF he/she is not the
BEST Alliance soldier? I mean if you actually talk to everyone on the
Normandy they are hand picked because they are the best, Ash was an acceptation because she proved herself worthy to be apart of the Normandy
crew on Eden Prime.

Also would Anderson pick a Shepard who has no
accomplishments at all, or a Shepard who has fought of 10,000
Batarians, is a war hero, and  get's the job done. It's like real life.
Will a manager higher a person who has no accomplishments in his/her
lief/ has no status, or a person who has accomplish great things in life
that would be beneficial towards the company, and maybe has some upper
status with high ranked people in other jobs.

Moreover the fact
that in dragon age " those hands caps" do in fact HELP you on some
missions, with discounts, and some pull during the main story. The fact
that a Noble human has almost everything taken way from him, or her
means that all of those titles, those you once held dear are gone. You
start fresh. Sure Fergus is still out their, but the fact that you start
off with nothing with the exception of your Marbari Dog is all you
have.

Look bottom line is that If you want your OWN
accomplishments for your character, then create your characters own
fate/ prodigy. You may not like the "prodigy cap", but the fact that it
helps you to some extent, and it sets up background for your characters involvement in the story. Makes it worth the wild. Not to mention the
fact that you do in fact CREATE the characters prodigy story by via
selecting that background. Are you saying the character on it's own
can't do those accomplishments by their selves, or do you want to do
those accomplishment because you didn't get to do them/ get feel your
earned those accomplishments. However are you not the player that
created that character that did in fact accomplish those events that
made your character a prodigy? I am sure you are, so in reality it is
YOU the player that made your character accomplish those events. You may
have not physical archived those accomplishments, but you did in fact
make your character accomplish those achievement by selecting their
backgrounds did you not?

Modifié par masster blaster, 13 mars 2013 - 09:49 .

[masster blaster]

imbs wrote...

Eco1988 wrote...

Same can be said for Dragon Age Origins 1 and 2. People might have known my name within my respective villages sure, but people know who am I within my hometown too. My character became special because I played him well and the game let me make him special for my own reasons. With the exception of KOTOR and NWN, this kinda seems to be the case with most Bioware games. You don't win because you're trained, you stand a chance because you're trained, you win because you play the game.

lol no. your character did not become special because "u played him well" he became special by default.

In truth the player did in fact created the character, in which case did
in fact do all of those things, yet not directly. Are you saying that
the character in which you created can not accomplish great things/ can
be consider what the player did/ I mean does the player have to physical
direct the character to accomplish those achievements, or can the player
just guide the character down those accomplishments, without using
force, or any drawn out conversation to ac chive those accomplishments?

Modifié par masster blaster, 13 mars 2013 - 09:50 .

[masster blaster]

One more thing. WHO is the one that makes your character the "prodigy"? I mean really Bioware may create those backgrounds, but you don't have to pick them. IF you don't like them, the don't play them at all. In DA:O You have to more classes to pick from. Your the one who creates those prodigy's for your character. You never had to pick them, but you did. " ah yes Bioware did in fact create those background", but it is YOU the player that picks them. I think more than half of the Bioware games do in fact give you other option that don't allow you to have "everything handed over". You want to earn something, well as i said you already earned it, but if not that, then don't buy their games. You don't like it then fine to bad. It's like when people complained about the ammo in ME. Dear lord that was so stupid. first people complained about overheating weapons in ME1, which Bioware actually had a problem to solve it, with just a few mods to upgrade your guns that are in the game. Then there is the fact, after Bioware took way the over heating gun problem people started to complain the guns burn through ammo fast, and now reloading my weapon is causing their Shepard to die. Now the fact that fans wanted Harbinger to shut up in ME3, now miss his trash talk. There is more than just ME that the fans complain, but is this really necessary? I mean really?

Modifié par masster blaster, 13 mars 2013 - 10:06 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Heroes don't become heroes 'when they want to be'. They're special because they have a drive in them others may not have.

Anderson makes a wonderful point of it in what was supposed to be a question about the N7 program for a documentary. About how people who were given everything, and expected great things of, fell flat on their face as soon as they got out the shuttle. About how others that barely made the cut and were expected to die in the first hour are the ones that persevered and became the best of the best.

I don't think you truly understand what a hero is, OP.

If you want to play a hero that starts out as an Average Joe with no skills whatsoever, then I hear they just released a new expansion pack for the Sims 3.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 13 mars 2013 - 10:09 .

[Tinu]

You're no pre-made hero in the Walking Dead game.

[The Six Path of Pain]

huh I never noticed this lol but I agree with you.We should achieve our own fame.

[masster blaster]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Heroes don't become heroes 'when they want to be'. They're special because they have a drive in them others may not have.

Anderson makes a wonderful point of it in what was supposed to be a question about the N7 program for a documentary. About how people who were given everything, and expected great things of, fell flat on their face as soon as they got out the shuttle. About how others that barely made the cut and were expected to die in the first hour are the ones that persevered and became the best of the best.

I don't think you truly understand what a hero is, OP.

If you want to play a hero that starts out as an Average Joe with no skills whatsoever, the I hear they just released a new expansion pack for the Sims 3.

I mean really how else is Shepard even suppost to be on the Normandy/ on Anderson's team, if SHepard has never done jack squat/ is not the best of the best. All of the Normandy crew are on the ship because they are the best of the best/ have done many things to get there. You expect to be the best just by having nothing to support your character in anyway that will/may help your character later in the future? Like you said Elder scrolls let's you do have no prodigy cap, so why don't you go play that instead, if you don't like the prodigy's bioware made. Remeber read my past post, and think about it. I am not trying to sound rude, but again reall?

[LilyasAvalon]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

huh I never noticed this lol but I agree with you.We should achieve our own fame.

You DO achieve your own fame. <_<

THEY fought, THEY inspired, THEY worked themselves to the bone to seemingly achieve the impossible.

It's not like they sat around on a bloody lounge chair doing nothing.

[masster blaster]

TinuHawke wrote...

You're no pre-made hero in the Walking Dead game.

That's because it's just random. Bioware games are diffrent. They allow the character to have those backgrounds to let the story come to life. Not to mention those backgrounds help you, either good ways or bad ways. Bioware needs prodigy hero to sell their games well. In sense how else would ME be around> Shepard couldn't just be on the Normandy, without proving him/her self worthy to be on the Normandy. Also in truth we do make the hero, so we did in fact had our character do those things, yet not in direct confrontation.

[LilyasAvalon]

masster blaster wrote...
 Like you said Elder scrolls let's you do have no prodigy cap, so why don't you go play that instead, if you don't like the prodigy's bioware made. Remeber read my past post, and think about it. I am not trying to sound rude, but again reall?

Someone pointed that out too, even the heroes of the Elder Scrolls series are all 'special' in their own. The hero of Skyrim was born with the soul of a dragon. Like hell THAT'S average.

[masster blaster]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

huh I never noticed this lol but I agree with you.We should achieve our own fame.

You DO achieve your own fame. <_<

THEY fought, THEY inspired, THEY worked themselves to the bone to seemingly achieve the impossible.

It's not like they sat around on a bloody lounge chair doing nothing.

"High I am just a soldier who is waiting for my player to make me a hero/ legand. I can't do anything without my player making my own achivments that I earned."<_<

[masster blaster]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
 Like you said Elder scrolls let's you do have no prodigy cap, so why don't you go play that instead, if you don't like the prodigy's bioware made. Remeber read my past post, and think about it. I am not trying to sound rude, but again reall?

Someone pointed that out too, even the heroes of the Elder Scrolls series are all 'special' in their own. The hero of Skyrim was born with the soul of a dragon. Like hell THAT'S average.

"I have powers that I didn't earn. I was born with them."<_<

[LilyasAvalon]

TinuHawke wrote...

You're no pre-made hero in the Walking Dead game.

Save the player, how many other people in game survived the zombie/apocolypse/etc.

I mean, most the time, the player is one of the only people left standing, no? Or at least certainly a small handful of what used to be left.

Surviving/Achieving anything is 50% drive and determination and 50% luck. That's true of almost anything. As seen in the 'bad endings' of both ME3 and ME2 or even DA;O and the Darkspawn DLC, it could've been just as easy for the Warden/Shepard to fail.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 13 mars 2013 - 10:28 .

[The Six Path of Pain]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

huh I never noticed this lol but I agree with you.We should achieve our own fame.

You DO achieve your own fame. <_<

THEY fought, THEY inspired, THEY worked themselves to the bone to seemingly achieve the impossible.

It's not like they sat around on a bloody lounge chair doing nothing.

Perhaps I worded that wrong,I mean we should be allowed to start from absolutely nothing to being an uber badass hero.Like in Oblivion your just some nobody in a dungeon who isn't anyone special.Then you go on to help Martin Septim and the Blades and play a huge role in stoping Mehrunes Dagon.Then for your part in stoping the crisis you are rewarded with the title of Champion of Cyrodil,and are the only person outside of the Septims(and who isn't an emperor)to be allowed to wear Imperial Dragon Armor

[masster blaster]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

huh I never noticed this lol but I agree with you.We should achieve our own fame.

You DO achieve your own fame. <_<

THEY fought, THEY inspired, THEY worked themselves to the bone to seemingly achieve the impossible.

It's not like they sat around on a bloody lounge chair doing nothing.

Perhaps I worded that wrong,I mean we should be allowed to start from absolutely nothing to being an uber badass hero.Like in Oblivion your just some nobody in a dungeon who isn't anyone special.Then you go on to help Martin Septim and the Blades and play a huge role in stoping Mehrunes Dagon.Then for your part in stoping the crisis you are rewarded with the title of Champion of Cyrodil,and are the only person outside of the Septims(and who isn't an emperor)to be allowed to wear Imperial Dragon Armor

Yet why was your character in there in the first place?

Modifié par masster blaster, 13 mars 2013 - 10:28 .

[LilyasAvalon]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...
Perhaps I worded that wrong,I mean we should be allowed to start from absolutely nothing to being an uber badass hero.Like in Oblivion your just some nobody in a dungeon who isn't anyone special.Then you go on to help Martin Septim and the Blades and play a huge role in stoping Mehrunes Dagon.Then for your part in stoping the crisis you are rewarded with the title of Champion of Cyrodil,and are the only person outside of the Septims(and who isn't an emperor)to be allowed to wear Imperial Dragon Armor

The hero is Oblivion was a 'prodigy' or 'special' as well.  They were in the vision of the Emperor.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 13 mars 2013 - 10:30 .

[Mistress9Nine]

imbs wrote...
lol no. your character did not become special because "u played him well" he became special by default.

No, he became special because he played the game at a all. 

You can't expect the hero's surroundings not to acknowledge him in some way. Yes, he can be a nameless prisoner, or an orphan, but he will still have something special about him that distinguishes him from the average mook. Whether or not this is apparent at the beginning of the story or not doesn't matter. 

BG1: You are a foster child of Gorion. Who knows of you? People in Candlekeep and Gorion's old friends he wrote to about you, also Sarevok who wants to murder your butt. You are no fabled hero. You only realize you are the child of a God at the end of the game. You are just someone who had a decent upbringing that involved magic/martial training. All the time you are working to revange your father and save yourself. If anything, becoming a hero is pretty much a side-effect.

BG2: Irenicus captures you because of your heritage and to steal it from you. You are not the only one who can kill him, but you are the only one with any motive. You are completely unknown to the world and taken on as a protegé of forces greater than you (Shadow Thieves/Vampires). Again you are just seeking revange + your own soul during the entire game. You just need to do heroic/evil stuff to get money.

BG-ToB: By this point other Bhallspawn know of you and you basically only interact with them, so can't expect them not to know you. In fact in Saradush you are just another Bhallspawn as the city is overflowing with them. If anything it makes you stand out as much as being a gay dude in a gay bar.

Kotor: The great revelation comes at the end. By the time you could have a chance to feel bad about not living up to yourself you basically aready did.

DA:O: Again your immediate surroundings know of you. Of course other nobles will recognize a scion of a noble family. Of course you are well known in a close-knit clan. Even as a mage Wynne only vaguely remembers you as some apprentice loser. I'd hardly say that your cahracter is an ubermentsch.Your points are all nonsense. What makes you famous is becoming a Warden.  Now that puts pressure on you, you are expected to stop the Blight, but that is because of what you've become during the game, not what you were beforehand.

I half expect you to have problems with an origin where you are the son of an average farmer and your mother pinches your cheek and tells you are special.

Modifié par Mistress9Nine, 13 mars 2013 - 10:33 .

[Droma]

other point: every human is special in a certain way. everyone has a unique background and everyone has some special skills (even if they are bad ones). So what's the point of this thread? Which "skills" are allowed and which not? I'm good at math, does that mean I could be a hero in any DA game or am I too special because I'm better at math then 90% of other peoples?