252 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieb]

Enhanced wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

I'd hope that within a few years the homophobia in society will whither down to just the fringes. It took decades for relationships between different ethnicities to gain mainstream support/tolerance. But at least on BSN, the open and intentional intolerance is limited to just a few individuals, which make it better than XBL. (can't speak for PSN)

It's limited because opinions that could be offensive to others are against the forum rules.

Don't mean to be patronizing, but that's a rather bold assumption. I see people abandoning the forum rules to speak their mind as they see fit, on a daily basis in here.

[Enhanced]

Baelrahn wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

I'd hope that within a few years the homophobia in society will whither down to just the fringes. It took decades for relationships between different ethnicities to gain mainstream support/tolerance. But at least on BSN, the open and intentional intolerance is limited to just a few individuals, which make it better than XBL. (can't speak for PSN)

It's limited because opinions that could be offensive to others are against the forum rules.

Don't mean to be patronizing, but that's a rather bold assumption. I see people abandoning the forum rules to speak their mind as they see fit, on a daily basis in here.

It depends on the rule and if a post reported to a mod or not. Some rules are enforced more than others.

Modifié par Enhanced, 15 mars 2013 - 01:26 .

[nos_astra]

Rauhel wrote...
I like to blame the forced alliance with Cerberus for me not liking ME2 as much as most people seem to, but I know a big part of it was how lonely my Shepard felt. He has had zero romance options so far, and was separated from the one guy that seemed like he could be into him. The goodbye scene on the Normandy (helped by the fact that it was intended for the love interest) and the scene on Horizon really help sell the idea that Kaidan cares deeply about Shepard. So many femShep players complain about Kaidan on Horizon, leading me to believe that the dialogue is better when you don't have a previous romance.

It's not. It's almost identical.

Kaidan says: I loved you. While I was thrilled because he really said love others focus on the -ed. Not anymore? I'll cut you, b*tch! Not to mention that if he'd twuly wubbed her he would have dropped everything (his life, his career, his sanity) and joined her because that's totally the right thing to do. It's SHEPARD after all. 

The butthurt is usually strong when characters question the player avatar and won't back down when chastised. It's even worse when it's the love interest. Alistair hate in female players (or players of female characters) is common when they got the break-up scene in DAO. The scene makes perfect sense from a narrative standpoint and Alistair is visibly unhappy about his decision but feels it's necessary. Oooooh, hooooow dare he?

Modifié par klarabella, 15 mars 2013 - 01:36 .

[78stonewobble]

k.lalh wrote...

I'd hope that within a few years the homophobia in society will whither down to just the fringes. It took decades for relationships between different ethnicities to gain mainstream support/tolerance. But at least on BSN, the open and intentional intolerance is limited to just a few individuals, which make it better than XBL. (can't speak for PSN)

Well principally I'd just as vigorously defend the right to think homosexuality was wrong.

I'd think it was a rather stupid way of thinking, but people have that right as well.

However... Most people with that line of thinking are just complete arses about it and then I just don't care that they get an equal response. 

[nrobbiec]

klarabella wrote...

Kaidan says: I loved you. While I was thrilled because he really said love others focus on the -ed. Not anymore? I'll cut you, b*tch! 

Well he did kind of die...

I think Horizon shows a lot fo strength in Kaidan despite his feelings for Shepard he won't just follow him blindly, he has his morals and loyalties and sticks to them. But despite everything he still cares and still has hopes for rekindling his relationship with him.

[Dieb]

78stonewobble wrote...

Well principally I'd just as vigorously defend the right to think homosexuality was wrong.

I'd think it was a rather stupid way of thinking, but people have that right as well.

However... Most people with that line of thinking are just complete arses about it and then I just don't care that they get an equal response. 

When it comes to that, I am an complete *youknowhat*, too though.

Because I'm not about defending the homosexual's right for personal freedom, but about fighting the basic assumption that anyone has the right to even question it.

[retic]

What i liked about the way the gay characters are portrayed in me3 is because...theyre keeping it real.

1) you can be nice to cortez and still be upfront that you like girls. In da2, i recall anders netting you rivalry points if you are trying to be nice to him but turn down the romance dialogs.

2) theyre not portrayed like perez hilton (even my gay friends hate him!!!). Wouldve been cool if a lesbian npc is patterned after ellen degeneres but thats a diff. Topic altogether.

[jonman21]

AndreasShepard wrote...

kobayashi-maru wrote...

The strange thing is that while it would have been great to have had s/s option from beginning the whole Kaiden arc actually works better because of it. In ME1 it had some hints (the whole cinematic whern you visit him), in 2 the Normandy destruction goodbye and especially the meeting on colony. From a storytelling point of view it actually gives the Citadel date scene more depth and impact.

/agree
I much prefer the idea of them having a mutual attraction to one another but never really acting on it until the third game since by then they've been through a lot and saved each other's asses so many times that it seems like it's finally time to put military protocol aside, plus the impending end of the galaxy seems to have a way of making people value the important things in life.
Mass Effect 1 was to me more about being introduced to the ME universe and was much heavier on the rules and regulations of being an alliance soldier so while starting the romance then would have been nice I ultimately don't mind it not being there as I was busy learning about alien races and exploring.  But they were definitely building a good friendship throughout the process.

kobayashi-maru and AndreasShepard,

You know what, I agree with you guys, too.  I really appreciate the way the original mShep & Kaidan romance storyline played out.  I thought BioWare did an incredible job with making it appear that their feelings progressed naturally throughout the course of the trilogy. 

Although, I did like mShep/Kaidan's story both ways -- in my first playthrough, I loved the idea that they were so focused on the mission and couldn't or didn't want to act on their feelings until ME3.  But during my second playthrough, after I modded their romance for ME1 and discovered hidden gems alluding to their prior romance in ME2 and ME3, I appreciated that storyline, too - and it changed the way I looked at the two of them as a couple. 

I highly recommend a playthrough with the modded mShep/Kaidan romance just to experience it - you'll love running into those hidden recorded lines! 

I played the ME trilogy on the Xbox 360 - and contrary to popular belief, it's totally possible to modify your ME1 save game to get the modded romance.

I'll copy and paste the instructions I found on a website to do so - you'll need two pieces of free software (easily Google-able) - "Modio" and "HxD" - and a USB drive that's formatted on the Xbox 360:

• First of all, you need to have a
  fresh save file for ME1, preferably right after the opening scene with
  Joker, Kaidan and Shepard.  It can be a brand new Shepard or it can be a
  NG+ Shepard.  Custom Sheps are fine.  Once you have your new, fresh save, you need to get
  it onto a PC.  If you know how to do that, great!  If not, you need a
  USB stick formatted by the 360 and transfer the save to the stick via
  the memory managment screen on the 360.
• Have the USB stick with that fresh save in the laptop and right
  click on Modio 4's EXE and run as administrator. In Modio click "open
  from device", it should then show a profile number, just keep clicking
  until you see the ME1 save and click on it. When the save is selected
  and opened, you should see some information about the save in the top
  half and in the bottom half 2 "windows" On the left it will havethe save
  file's name with the ME1 logo and in the second window it should have
  the "player.sav, state.sav, WorldSavePackage.sav" files
• Right-click on the "state.sav" file and choose "extract" and save it the
  desktop or where ever you like. Now open HxD, click on "file, open" and
  browse for the "state.sav" file. When it opens, click on the drop down
  bar that says "ANSI" and change it to "DOS/IBM ASCII" Look at the
  "offset (h)" column and scroll down until you see "00000270" line. It
  should be all zeros, in the "07" column, highlight those 2 zeros and
  type "80", that's it! Now save it. For Ash, the 07 column will have
  "80", change it to "00".
• Back in Modio, right click on the "state.sav" file again and delete it then
  right click in that window and choose "add file", browse for the edited "state.sav"
  file and press OK. In the left hand side of Modio, click "Rehash and Resign"
  followed by "Save to device".
• Put the USB stick back into the 360, load up
  the save.  There you have it!

Modifié par jonman21, 15 mars 2013 - 04:45 .

[Battlebloodmage]

The final straw for me in the next game is if they include straight relationship and not the gay relationship. I'm just tired at this point to just wondering if this Bioware game has it or next Bioware game has it. SWTOR did not include any gay relationship because of the "resource" and yet they have 1-2 romance for each class. Talk about damage control.

[nrobbiec]

I would think they would be aware of all the positive feedback they've got from Kaidan and Cortez that they'd know how to keep their audience happy. I assume so anyway, it's just common sense. Otherwise they'll have really shot themselves in the foot.

[Raikas]

AndreasShepard wrote...
It doesn't feel forced to me but an extra bit of dialogue wouldn't have hurt, something along the lines of "I realized I had feelings for you but you died before I got the chance to say anything"  or something along those lines.

You know, I've always thought that his response to the Paragon line on Horizon in ME2 is pretty much saying exactly that.

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The final straw for me in the next game is if they include straight relationship and not the gay relationship. I'm just tired at this point to just wondering if this Bioware game has it or next Bioware game has it.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't included in the next game - didn't one of the devs on the DA boards comment that the same sex options in DA2 were used by a much higher percentage of players than they'd expected?

[Battlebloodmage]

nrobbiec wrote...

I would think they would be aware of all the positive feedback they've got from Kaidan and Cortez that they'd know how to keep their audience happy. I assume so anyway, it's just common sense. Otherwise they'll have really shot themselves in the foot.

I'm worried because of the team changed. We all know what happen with Bioware Austin in their stand on homosexuality. The new team may just include a minor character like Kelly in ME4 as ss romance. They may even take the same approach as the old ME team and had lesbian romance only and said "See, there are gay romance in the game". I'm a bit wary about this, but I still have hope that they'd be willing to do the right thing and include proper romance for everyone in the next game.

[nrobbiec]

Who's on the team for ME4 do we know?

[Battlebloodmage]

nrobbiec wrote...

Who's on the team for ME4 do we know?

I'm not sure, I remember someone said Casey Hudson will oversee the project. I'm not certain if he's the director though.

[Battlebloodmage]

Hervoyl wrote...

AndreasShepard wrote...
It doesn't feel forced to me but an extra bit of dialogue wouldn't have hurt, something along the lines of "I realized I had feelings for you but you died before I got the chance to say anything"  or something along those lines.

You know, I've always thought that his response to the Paragon line on Horizon in ME2 is pretty much saying exactly that.

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The final straw for me in the next game is if they include straight relationship and not the gay relationship. I'm just tired at this point to just wondering if this Bioware game has it or next Bioware game has it.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't included in the next game - didn't one of the devs on the DA boards comment that the same sex options in DA2 were used by a much higher percentage of players than they'd expected?

I guess the usual assumption that only gay people play S/S romance. I play both straight and gay during roleplaying, depending on how I RP. I know a lot of straight women and men play S/S romance on here as well. If you make an assumption that straight male gamers are the predominant market, so we should cater mostly to them, of course they would be the only ones who buy the game. If the game is catered to everyone, then more people would be willing to buy the game.

[redcarpet26]

I play the one that gives me an excitement boner. That happens to be the romances with maximum amounts of penis.
I don't see how they can avoid SS romance in the next one. It's been a hallmark of the series. 

Modifié par redcarpet26, 15 mars 2013 - 10:48 .

[SilentK]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The final straw for me in the next game is if they include straight relationship and not the gay relationship. I'm just tired at this point to just wondering if this Bioware game has it or next Bioware game has it. SWTOR did not include any gay relationship because of the "resource" and yet they have 1-2 romance for each class. Talk about damage control.

At least SWTOR is moving towards including them more openly. Makeb will have SGR-content, granted I do not know how much but I am happy that they are adding it. Wish it could have been in at the start but happy that they are adding it to the game. Personally I am confident in the future DA- and ME-games having SGR-relationships. I just can't see them without it.

Think that it is moving forward so to speak. And... even if discussions are heated here sometimes my feeling is that it is actually a pretty good place. Have started to frequent another forum for gamers and there being female is not really that great a thing. Having ideas on how women are shown in games and how they act, or are acted upon is pretty much a sure way of getting pages of flames. Feels as if gay relationships is not even on the horizon there. It made me rethink BSN a bit. Sure there are people here who are negative, but those who support a females having a good role in games and relationships being open to all have a voice here and have good content available in the games.

[Nimrodell]

I just don't understand this type of topics... did try and yet, I don't get them nor do I get people that are asking these kind of questions or discussing them. I'm a heterosexual, and to be honest, I don't give a fig what happens in other persons boudoir and it's not the issue of one's sexual preferences, it's a question of privacy... Why would anyone poke my eyes with a fact they are heterosexual or LGBT player? The only thing that counts it's the simple fact, BW recognized all sexual preferences and it's good and nice... so why these kind of questions? I mean, really, who gives a fig about it? It's bloody RPG and you can choose whomever you want, why does anyone need to got into intimacy of others? I just find it tasteless and to be honest, I'd always consider that as invasion to one's privacy, especially 'cause I see that people, especially LGBT have generic feel to defend themselves, even there's no need for it... at least here. Just enjoy your LIs and scenarios with 'em and that's all... after all, in ME it's not even question on being hetero or ******, we're mingling with alien species and the best part is.. this is a game, a virtual thing, hetero, ******, alienlover... who cares, just enjoy it.

[Battlebloodmage]

SilentK wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The final straw for me in the next game is if they include straight relationship and not the gay relationship. I'm just tired at this point to just wondering if this Bioware game has it or next Bioware game has it. SWTOR did not include any gay relationship because of the "resource" and yet they have 1-2 romance for each class. Talk about damage control.

At least SWTOR is moving towards including them more openly. Makeb will have SGR-content, granted I do not know how much but I am happy that they are adding it. Wish it could have been in at the start but happy that they are adding it to the game. Personally I am confident in the future DA- and ME-games having SGR-relationships. I just can't see them without it.

Think that it is moving forward so to speak. And... even if discussions are heated here sometimes my feeling is that it is actually a pretty good place. Have started to frequent another forum for gamers and there being female is not really that great a thing. Having ideas on how women are shown in games and how they act, or are acted upon is pretty much a sure way of getting pages of flames. Feels as if gay relationships is not even on the horizon there. It made me rethink BSN a bit. Sure there are people here who are negative, but those who support a females having a good role in games and relationships being open to all have a voice here and have good content available in the games.

I issue I have with Makeb is that it's just flirting with NPC and on a single planet that required you to pay-to-gay. It's not the flirting but forming meaningful relationship with the companions. I guess I'm happy for those who were able to enjoy it, but for a game that cost 200 millions dollars to develop, there is no way they could not have added gay relationship in it except for the fear of controversy. Mass Effect had the same excuse, but there wasn't a lot of controversy in ME3, well, not regarding M/M relationship anyway. 

I think Bioware is becoming my favorite company not only for their stand on sexism and homophobia but also on their continuous support of women and LGBT in game. As much as I have problems with some of the posters here, there are many people who I can have mature conversation with. That's more than what I can say for other sites like Battlle.net or PSN. 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 16 mars 2013 - 08:12 .

[Alien Number Six]

I'm not gay. But I thought the gay characters where very well written. Old stereotypes didn't come into play. The fact that they were homosexual didn't define them. It just added to their character. During the war in Iraq I had two soliders come forward saying a private in their squad had admitted he was gay. At the time it was a violation of the don't ask don't tell policy put in place by president Clinton. I had just made staff sarge. I ordered the two soliders to stay quiet and called the private in to meet with us. When he arrived I asked him what his score was the last time he qualified with his weapon. I knew the answer. "40 out of 40 sarge." he said. "Ok you can leave private." I said. After he left I gave the other two soliders a look that would melt steel and said "He shoots better than I do and that is all I give a F+uck about!" "I shot a 28 out of 40 on my last qual!" "That is why I carry the 240 Bravo!" "Don't darken my door with this s+hit again!" "And if your thinking of taking this crap to Top you can forget it!" "Get out!" People need to be judged by what they can do not who they choose to date in their spare time. One day I hope we all rise above that type of thinking.

[Imperator_Prime]

[quote]jonman21 wrote...
I'll copy and paste the instructions I found on a website to do so - you'll need two pieces of free software (easily Google-able) - "Modio" and "HxD" - and a USB drive that's formatted on the Xbox 360:

[*]First of all, you need to have a
fresh save file for ME1, preferably right after the opening scene with
Joker, Kaidan and Shepard.  It can be a brand new Shepard or it can be a
NG+ Shepard.  Custom Sheps are fine.  Once you have your new, fresh save, you need to get
it onto a PC.  If you know how to do that, great!  If not, you need a
USB stick formatted by the 360 and transfer the save to the stick via
the memory managment screen on the 360.
[*]Have the USB stick with that fresh save in the laptop and right
click on Modio 4's EXE and run as administrator. In Modio click "open
from device", it should then show a profile number, just keep clicking
until you see the ME1 save and click on it. When the save is selected
and opened, you should see some information about the save in the top
half and in the bottom half 2 "windows" On the left it will havethe save
file's name with the ME1 logo and in the second window it should have
the "player.sav, state.sav, WorldSavePackage.sav" files
[*][...][/list][*]ARARRRRGHHHH!!  Even trying to quote your post to get help for everything that's going wrong is GOING WRONG! 
[*]So, I downloaded Modio (the latest version was the only one the site would offer) and I formatted a brand new thumbdrive specifically for this 'project.'  I started a new game, saved to my xbox HD, then moved the save game to the thumbdrive.  I plugged it in to my laptop, and neither my file manager nor Modio find any content on the thumbdrive *at all.*
[*]And to see if it would make any difference, I tried "logging in" via Modio, and keep getting "can't connect to the remote server."  So basically I'm getting it at both ends, at every ****ing turn.  WTF.  Has anyone had (and more importantly, overcome) this stupid, annoying problem?

[Modius Prime]

I romance Kaidan because, well, I can't really 'come out' with the church so infested in U.S politics. Being a gaymer, I can't be anything but homosexual lol. I mean, I romanced Miranda, Jack, Tali, and Liara to feel normal, but it just didn't feel right, you know what I mean? I don't act straight/gay (I hate labels), I just act the way I do because it reflects my personality the best. Later on in ME3, I was like, "omg, you can do a s/s mod for ME1" then I went back to ME1 and embraced Kaidan. It took some work-mainly because I'm terribad w/ tech-and I enjoyed it, because I got to romance the person that I liked. I love how Bioware included S/S romanced in their games; it shows that people are starting to let go of irrational hatred in the media, albeit it is going at a slow pace, but everything starts from somewhere. I didn't like how Kaidan in ME3 just went like, 'I'm bi now, so date me'. The game didn't  mention anything AT ALL that he was bisexual til the date, and a lot of people  thought it was awkward how he just jumped on the horse (me included). Also, I hated how it was cut-and-paste fshep, because it didn't feel unique; it was just stupid how like 90% of the lines were similar; however, there is dialogue for an imported romance with broshep that was cut out of the game. I couldn't romance Steve Cortez; I mean, he's a widower for gods sake (reminds me of Liara's comment about Thane in ME2 if cheated on her)! All in all, I love how Bioware is trying to change the fact that heterosexuals aren't the only people on this planet, and that we're all humans trying to live out our lives to achieve happiness. I mean, one of the major themes of ME is diversity, right? Unrelated: Kaidain is super sexy!

Modifié par Modius Prime, 29 mars 2013 - 05:14 .

[Wolfva2]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm not gay. But I thought the gay characters where very well written. Old stereotypes didn't come into play. The fact that they were homosexual didn't define them. It just added to their character. During the war in Iraq I had two soliders come forward saying a private in their squad had admitted he was gay. At the time it was a violation of the don't ask don't tell policy put in place by president Clinton. I had just made staff sarge. I ordered the two soliders to stay quiet and called the private in to meet with us. When he arrived I asked him what his score was the last time he qualified with his weapon. I knew the answer. "40 out of 40 sarge." he said. "Ok you can leave private." I said. After he left I gave the other two soliders a look that would melt steel and said "He shoots better than I do and that is all I give a F+uck about!" "I shot a 28 out of 40 on my last qual!" "That is why I carry the 240 Bravo!" "Don't darken my door with this s+hit again!" "And if your thinking of taking this crap to Top you can forget it!" "Get out!" People need to be judged by what they can do not who they choose to date in their spare time. One day I hope we all rise above that type of thinking.

Bravo to you for the way you handled the situation.  That's one thing I like about how homosexuality is treated in the game; it's no big deal.  Cortez talks about his husband the same way he could have talked about his wife.  No big deal, it just is what it is.  Frankly, I'll be happy if the day ever comes that people stop giving a damn about someone else's sexuality.  I beleive it was Nimrodel who pointed out it's no one elses business.  Personally, I'm MUCH more bothered by the idea that a CO would date/screw one of his subordinates then that it's same sex, or with an alien.

Of course, if that might change if they ever introduce a Varren as a love interest.  Which would explain the rash Morden was trying to cure in ME2......  I mean, c'mon.  SOME LIs just should not be!

[Sabariel]

How does one "act straight"?

[tevix]

I loved the way cortez's character was handled for the reasons stated above. I WISH it was like that today.

As a "gaymer" I don't want to have to flaunt, defend or make special note (or make special note to keep quite) about my sexuality. I want to be able to mind my own business and everyone else mind theres. I want to be able to go out and not get dirt looks or nasty comments or get treated differently because of who I'm dating.

Baelrahn's idea of "unconditional acceptance" is exactly what I'd like to see.