252 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

Rauhel wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Rauhel wrote...

That'll do it. I hear you can be rude to him on Mars and still salvage it in the hospital scenes. It may also depend on whether you imported or started a new game in ME3. If you are rude to him on Mars and the hospital, he is friendzoned, If you are rude to him on Mars and don't visit him at all, he is killed. I think that's how it works.

Really? My friend didn't talk to Ash at all and was able to convince her to put down the gun. I'm assuming that it's the same thing with Kaidan. 

I don't actually know. I could never let things get bad enough that Kaidan doesn't survive the coup. I know it's possible to get to the point where you can't talk him down and one of your squadmates will take the shot (like Wrex on Virmire), but I don't know how. I know not visiting him makes it harder to convince him during the coup.

Maybe your friend was nice to Ashley on Mars and that was enough? I think you have to be a complete ass on Mars and never visit them in the hospital.

It comes down to the councilor. If he is alive then Ashley/Kaidan will turn on Udina on default(almost sure)
If the councilor is dead and Udina has fake evidence they die if you were a dick to them, if you were a nice guy/gal then you have to rnegade/paragon attemt them I think.

[tevix]

The assumption that the majority of guys who play this game are straight is extremely narrow-minded.

You would be genuinely surprised how many guys you've come across in this game are gay (without getting into society in general). They may not admit it, but if you know what to look for you can usually pick them out.

And there's a lot of them....A LOT. Video games are highly popular with most gay guys. I could almost say it's a fact that a higher percentage of gays than straights play video games, especially RPGs.

I've played around with all the LI's because I wanted to know about their character. I was not interested in their "bum bum". I was interested in their character. I thought the cortez LI was forced, but Kaiden felt natural. Tali is my favorite romance arc if I had to pick one.

P.S. I am a "gay gamer".
P.P.S. I cannot speak for the lesbian side of the crowd, so don't take the lack of mention as an act of ill will.

[Battlebloodmage]

tevix wrote...

The assumption that the majority of guys who play this game are straight is extremely narrow-minded.

You would be genuinely surprised how many guys you've come across in this game are gay (without getting into society in general). They may not admit it, but if you know what to look for you can usually pick them out.

And there's a lot of them....A LOT. Video games are highly popular with most gay guys. I could almost say it's a fact that a higher percentage of gays than straights play video games, especially RPGs.

I've played around with all the LI's because I wanted to know about their character. I was not interested in their "bum bum". I was interested in their character. I thought the cortez LI was forced, but Kaiden felt natural. Tali is my favorite romance arc if I had to pick one.

P.S. I am a "gay gamer".
P.P.S. I cannot speak for the lesbian side of the crowd, so don't take the lack of mention as an act of ill will.

How I wish this were true, I wouldn't have to listen to 12 years old boys think they tough by yelling out homophobic slurs while playing online games. 

[tevix]

@Battlebloodmage

Hey I never said they were ALL gay.

Also, be patient.

You'd be surprised how many of those 12 year old slur-chucking brats end up gay. They act that way because their parents are homophobic d-bags. Then they grow up and realize what they are and tell their parents to f--- off and start treating people with respect.

That's a discussion not for this thread, though.

[L2 Sentinel]

Rulid wrote...

I've read a lot of blogs from gay gamers who enjoyed Bioware games because of the inclusion of gay romance.

I think the consensus is that
1. It's not well executed, and certainly not equal in options.
2. But no one else even tries to do it, anyway.

1. Mass Effect is my first BioWare game. I just started Jade Empire (still on the first mission) so we'll see how that goes. I can't speak for BioWare games as a whole, but I don't think the gay romances in Mass Effect are lacking in the quality department. I was pleasantly surprised by the care put into the Kaidan romance, probably because I've never played a game that even had a gay character, let alone a full-fledged gay romance. As for having fewer options, I'm pretty okay with that. As long as the quality of the gay romances are on par with the straight romances, I don't mind having fewer options (though more than one is preferable).
2. That's for sure. BioWare is at least trying. There are areas they could improve on, sure, but they are willing to listen, and that's more than I can say for most game developers out there.

Knight of Dane wrote...

It comes down to the councilor. If he is alive then Ashley/Kaidan will turn on Udina on default(almost sure)
If the councilor is dead and Udina has fake evidence they die if you were a dick to them, if you were a nice guy/gal then you have to rnegade/paragon attemt them I think.

That's right! I forgot about the councilor. That's where I got the feeling an import save matters. In default ME3, Thane and Kirrahe are both dead, so the councilor cannot be saved, and Udina fabricates evidence that Shepard killed the Salarian councilor.

Modifié par Rauhel, 13 mars 2013 - 09:38 .

[Offender_Mullet]

I don't have anything against gay people, but Steve was a.....'blah' (or boring) character.

The most eye-rolling over-dramatic spoken line in the entire trilogy is: "STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!" and my Shep bangs Liara yet he still says it that way. I never understood why that line was so overdone.

Sure, Shep thought Steve bit the dust but he's a new character that you don't really care about...yet Shep acts like he's been with him the past 2 games. If his goodbyes to Mordin or Legion had that much bravado, then those could have been the two best cutscenes of the trilogy.

Modifié par Offender_Mullet, 13 mars 2013 - 09:48 .

[L2 Sentinel]

Offender_Mullet wrote...

The most eye-rolling over-dramatic spoken line in the entire trilogy is: "STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!" and my Shep bangs Liara yet he still says it that way. I never understood why that line was so overdone.

I don't have anything against gay people, sure Shep thought Steve bit the dust, but he's a new character that you don't really care about, yet Shep acts like he's known him forever. If his goodbyes to Mordin or Legion had that much bravado, then those could have been the 2 best cutscenes of all 3 games.

I didn't care a whole lot about Steve either, so I get it. It was easier for me to bond with Traynor. It felt more natural. Steve is just so tense, and the grieving storyline was more baggage than I wanted from a new character. I still befriended him and everything, but it was more of a "this dude needs my help" and less of a "I like being around this guy" kind of friendship. It's a big reason why Kaidan was a more compelling choice for me. I already had history with him. I already cared.

However, the Citadel DLC gave me a chance to get to know Steve better, away from the widower storyline. I like him a lot more after seeing him in a more natural environment.

[Nykara]

I am totally straight IRL but I have considered doing a play through with Liara as Shepards LI purely because I always got the feeling Liara was in love with Shepard all the way through the entire game if you romanced her or not. More so them from any other of the characters in the game I got that from Liara.

[kobayashi-maru]

I like to say I'm omni-sexual with friends and family I call uber-gay. My cannon ME3 Shep is gay, but have a straight Shep who romances Tali. The whole gaymers thing I find weird it just another way to stereotype people.

An interesting aspect is a significant percentage of people who like gay romances are straight females. Gay romance novels are mostly written by and read by straight women. Most so called gaymers could care less who the Master Chief's love life or whether Fenix and the Cole Train ever boinked, actually I would pay for that DLC. The amount of testosterone released would destroy the Universe.

I guess I fit the gay stereotype just as much as I don't. Love my beer, rock music and horror movies - gorier the better - and truly hate wine, dancing (I Shepard dance) and pop music. My fashion sense is pretty much T-shirt and comfy Jeans from Asda/Walmart. Actually just realised I'm more obviously a white trash stereotype. I should go...

[DirtyPhoenix]

lolerk53 wrote...

Reap_ii wrote...

Darth Revan91 wrote...

The last time i romanced Samantha in Mass Effect 3 i am not gay but i am fan of lesbias 

sometimes i feel like a lesbian trapped in a male body.

Holy hell. I sometimes feel the same!

[kumquats]

I just pick the characters I like. Jaheira, Carth, Jack, Liara, Vector, Isabela, Anders. There is really no pattern. My characters are always open for everything ^^
The only annoying thing for me are gender restrictions. I never have anyone to romance with my male Revan, since I don't like Bastila at all. Buh!

[HolyAvenger]

I'm glad gay players have the options of doing SS romances now.

I haven't done any of them, personally (even the lesbian ones) because I kinda just roleplay who my Shepards would get with each playthrough, and so far none of them have been the SS type.

Maybe some time in the future.

[Dieb]

Hey there,

I would be very thankful if some of the gay people in here read this below. I have a few thoughts about the matter to which I'd really like to hear an answer to.



About straight men playing female characters & the perception of homosexuals in games

First off, I'm a straight white male. So is my canon Shepard. That is because I always play my characters on a "60% what I would do if I were as capable as my character / 30% extension of myself / 10% it would be interesting if I had this little quirk" -basis. I actually roleplay the same personality in each of my playthroughs, I can barely ever bring myself to do something "off" just to see how things play out.

It's sometimes different if you have characters to choose from, say when the predefined male is mostly the burly tank and the female is more the stealthy, agile type - because the latter is simply my favourite style of playing. However, in games where I can really create my protagonist, I never create a female. I need to relate to my character, and I can't relate to a female.

That brings me to my point: Many people I know always use the old "I rather stare at some hot chick's behind for 10+ hrs, than some dude. That would be totally gay!"
I don't know how popular this is for you, but I hear that in pretty much every discussion about the matter.

What I loved about ME3's Steve and Sam is the simple fact that they're exclusively gay. I cannot judge how well it is done exactly, as for above mentioned reason I didn't engage in a romance with either one, but I still think it's a brave step to have characters be "truly gay".
It's always really cheap if you just have a female NPC in a game be bisexual, because however superficial it might sound, that is still 100% directed at straight males in my book.

"Some lesbians didn't find it inaccurate and weirdly physical? Well, good we got that base covered by accident, too."
Two chicks making out is hot. E=mc².



Acting straight, acting gay?

Is there a training program for something like that? I'm doing voiceovers for a living, and I played a gay character in an audio drama. I actually asked an experienced, amazingly gifted collegue, if he had any advice or reference material to help me make my performance more believable. He just adviced me not to look for any. And so I did.

Whenever context gave it away, I didn't change my voice and yet strangely, I was still a gay character. To make the example even more startling, even in a romantic moment, I never used my "gay voice". I was just speaking softly and emotional. Like I would talk to a female love interest, for that matter. And still, he was a gay character. Now, ain't that something!

That was sarcasm of course, but I think I got the point across. I think there is no "acting sexual preference". If you take the "fashion-victim-uber-queer", showcased in many bad shows, then the straight equivalent would be...  "sweaty sexist jerkface"? To me, both would just be annoying people to be around, neither would represent their repsective sexual orientation.

I like women. I like 'em even more when they're pretty and preferably undressed.

When Shepard slept with Ashley, I had two thoughts: "Good lord, she's so freakin' HOT!", but also "Damn, that guy's well built! I really should work out more!"
Complimenting other men's physique, and being self-conscious about my own at the same time? Isn't that two things mainstream media gay guys do, in a single thought? Guess I acted pretty gay there, then.



Why I care as a S.W.M.

The truth? Because I'm a sci-fi nerd.

In my dreams, I want this humanity to have starships and laser guns, travel through space, meet cool alien races, all of the cheese. And every time I read about religion-fueled violence or the mistreatment of gay people, I can't help but think "You idiots! We're never gonna have cool sci-fi stuff with a mindset likes this!"

However clueless it might sound, the unconditional acceptance of gay people, to me is a sign of movement towards the future. I also say unconditional, because I don't want "You're gay, and I absolutely accept that. I think you're brave for standing by it, and I don't have a problem with it.", but more like "Uhm... alright? So? Anyways, what's on space-television tonight?"

What I want to say is, that I think it's great that they did in fact NOT make a big deal out of it. "So Steve, you have a husband. Probably because you find men attractive, not women. It's very sad that he, this person you happen to love, died." E=mc².





edit: Fixed formatting and the many typos. Been a bit too eager to get the thoughts out of my fine brain

Modifié par Baelrahn, 13 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[o Ventus]

@baelrahn

Thank you.

Pretty much the same as me, except my Shepard goes for Miranda.

Modifié par o Ventus, 13 mars 2013 - 11:10 .

[Sc2mashimaro]

RustyMcBlade wrote...

As a straight gamer and all, this got me to realize something: Ive never met a gay gamer in my life!

I play my Shepard with my own sexuality: straight.

However, I have several gay friends and literally ALL of them game. So I think having gay romances was a great call by Bioware and I know they enjoy the game more for it.

[Imperator_Prime]

I as a guy-on-guy-kinda'-guy was attracted to Kaidan right from the start. He was just so good (and easy on the eyes), so I RPed that as much as possible through my primary Shepard, Hadrian (a Paragade spacer/hero vanguard)-- I was as friendly toward him as the dialogue options would allow and I didn't actually know back then that he wouldn't reciprocate the full extent of my interest. When he didn't, Hade & I kinda pined after him, and didn't pursue anyone else because I was hoping-- seemingly against hope, at the time-- that eventually something might change and that he might return my/Hadrian's affection. So when ME3 came out and Kaidan 'came out,' it was a relationship I'd wanted to pursue for years.

As for my other Shepards, my #2 was a femShep Earthborn/ruthless soldier who I played far more Renegade (inspired by Starbuck from BSG) and pursued Kaidan without wavering (because I as the player wanted to see what Hadrian was missing). #3 was an all-Paragon colonist/survivor adept and while playing him my mindset was "I've seen so many horrors that now I just want something good, and to be as good as I can." So I RPed him as attracted to Kaidan, too, but he lost him on Virmire, mourned through ME2, and in ME3 he was drawn to the nicest, most relatable/sympathetic person he met-- Cortez.

Then I played #4 who was an all Renegade Earthborn/ruthless douchebag who was actually attracted to Ashley's racism, blamed 'the aliens' when she died on Virmire, and come ME2 was all too happy to work with Cerberus and get together with Miranda without ever trying to change her. No ME3 for him yet.

#5, I kinda put through the wringer. Another ruthless Earthborn, Sentinel. I played her as pursuing something with Kaidan in ME1 but then he died on Virmire, so she was embittered. In ME2 she got together with Jacob :-/ I've left her ME3 playthru off somewhere-- I forget where-- until who-knows-when, but she does know that Jacob moved on to Brynn and let's just say it hasn't done much for her disposition. I think she might actually say "I'm sick and tired of these human men dying on me, or running off on me!" and go for... I dunno... she's most likely done with personal relationship, period.

So yeah... unless I really depart from my own personality and conscientiously RP a Shepard whose internal motivations would draw them to someone else, my personal preference for Kaidan seems to bleed through pretty consistently. He's just so much like what I'd be drawn to in r/l that I find him kinda irresistible in the game. My r/l hubby actually be jelly of him, it's made him hate the whole franchise and he's never even played it. :-P

[kobayashi-maru]

If only more people thought like you baelrahn. I totally agree with how you play your characters in game as extension of yourself with 10% added quirk, it's pretty much same for me. I have difficulty doing most of the renegade options because I wouldn't do it and by extension my Shepard wouldn't either. Tried it and ended up going back to earlier save point to fix it cause it feels like dishonest playthrough.

My cannon Shep is gay but that less to do with sexuality and more with fact I like Kaidans character. Previously I either had no love interest or in ME2 chose Tali. I like Steve but he is like any other character who has recently lost a spouse, it just seems inappropriate to pursue a relationship. And I have issues with the Traynor arc especially the straight boy lesbian fantasy style aspect of the love scene. No offence to anyone who like it just my opinion on it, can understand if you disagree, just personal irk because I like her character so much.

I did one ME1 play through as female and honestly it was more a chore than fun, skipping the cutscens etc, it just doesn't work for me. I have no such issue playing Claire in my favourite RE game, but in RPG you are active participant so that's maybe my issue. Also could just be my macho posturing due to certain personal aspects I was bullied for as a kid.

I like the fact some characters are gay, straight and in Kaidans case Shepard sexual - as his orientation based on gender of Shep and works for his arc from 1-3. The whole everyone is bi thing in some games is an issue, it just feels wrong story wise, in ME it feels more cohesive as story because it doesn't do it.

The whole acting gay thing really irritates me. Do I sometimes come across kind of camp? Yes but it isn't done to antagonise the straights, it's just me. My voice is my voice, on Xbox live more people have issues with my broad Glaswegian accent and the fact I swear like a trooper when I get downed. But I admit I tried to change how I speak and its pain, it got so bad I speak proper English with some, Glaswegian loud mouth with others and something I call the swearing Mormon.

I know plenty of straight effeminate males and straight women who could - and would - beat up a rugby player if they got handsie in a bar. It's just stereotype based on the past in which the only gay people anyone ever saw where the ones who couldn't hide it, and the ones who could did because of fear. In reality it's everyone from the clubby dancing gay to the jeans and T-shirt wearing nerd who would rather watch Star Trek or me the beer drinking husky guy who would rather watch gory slasher movies than sit through a romantic comedy.

And finally (I can't believe I said so much) I like your reason why you care, but one major hurdle is sci-fi geeks are likes everyone with own prejudices etc. When DS9 did lesbian storyline many Star Trek fans were outraged and at the time it shocked me. It is getting better, look at how much controversy the gay players thread on the MP forum caused, but in end it lead to something more positive discussion wise. People are just people, I don't care who you sleep with unless it's my mum then its a problem

[Cecilia L]

The "acting gay" remark kinda bothered me. Just because you have one or another sexual oriantation, you don't have to comform to some steriotypical behavior.

Sexual orientation is just a small part of who you are and I'm actually really annoyed with the flamboyant fashion queens and lesbians who feel they have to dress like dudes to fit the part. For them, homosexuality seems to be their entire lifestyle, it's the only thing that defines them, can't stand that kind of people. (don't get me wrong, if that's their genuine personality, fine. But letting oneself be molded into what the world expects you to be is what I have a problem with.) Hope I'm not being offensive.

That's one thing that ME has done right. Traynor and Cortez are not showing off their sexual orientation with steriotypical annoyances, they just happen to be gay.

Personally I'm a bisexual female, playing a female Garrusmancing Shepard. Before dat dextro became an LI, though, I was very happy to have Liara as a LI in ME1. I chose her because I liked both her personality and appearance more than Kaidan.

I also play all kinds of other Shepards to experience different romances.

PLAY ALL THE SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS!

ROMANCE ALL THE LIs!

It's a role-playing game after all

PS. I know straight male gamers who play Cortezmancers and Kaidanmancers because they like the characters, and that's what it's supposed to be about, isn't it? Both IRL and in games.

Modifié par Cecilia L, 13 mars 2013 - 12:35 .

[nani7788]

Well, I'm a lesbian and my FemShep is as well (Liara as LI). So I'm really glad that they decided to include that. You're barely ever given that option in a game. Even though they kinda dropped it in ME2 (if you don't continue a relationship with Liara from ME1). But, that aside, I could also see myself romancing Garrus as I really like him and I love that tango scene from the Citadel DLC. If I were ever to play as BroShep, I would probably romance Kaidan or Miranda.

[MCS Shootist]

Baelrahn wrote...

First off, I'm a straight white male. So is my canon Shepard. That is because I always play my characters on a "60% what I would do if I were as capable as my character / 30% extension of myself / 10% it would be interesting if I had this little quirk" -basis. I actually roleplay the same personality in each of my playthroughs, I can barely ever bring myself to do something "off" just to see how things play out.

It's sometimes different if you have characters to choose from, say when the predefined male is mostly the burly tank and the female is more the stealthy-agile type - because the latter is simply my favourite style of playing. However, in games where I can really create my protagonist, I never create a female. I need to relate to my character, and I can't relate to a female.

That brings me to my point: Many people I know always use the old "I rather stare at some hot chick's behind for 10+ hrs, than some dude. That would be totally gay!"
I don't know how popular this is for you, but I hear that in pretty much every discussion about the matter.

This! I'm also a straight male gamer, and heh, whenever my friends see me playing this game they're all, "I'm surprised you're playing a male character!" Its like sure, when there's an option to create a character in a fighter or shooter that has no RPG elements at all, I do think I tend towards females, because I like their character customization options better.  Or like you said, its because I favor stealthy, agile types, so if the guy is the tank and the girl is the sneaky assassin, I'll pick the latter. But in a game like this, I see the character I'm playing as an extension of myself, and it doesn't really resonate with me to play as a female. I want to be able to romance Miranda and Tali!

That being said, my younger brother is a gay gamer, and what I like about this game is that there were options for him. Personality wise, we make the same choices (paragon, try to save everyone), though he prefers the sentinel's a little bit of everything whereas I like the stealthy approach of the infiltrator. So I still find it cool that we could head down the same path with a Shepard that fit with our preferences- not just gameplay wise, but with who we could romance.

Modifié par MCS Shootist, 13 mars 2013 - 12:54 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Cecilia L wrote...

The "acting gay" remark kinda bothered me. Just because you have one or another sexual oriantation, you don't have to comform to some steriotypical behavior.

Sexual orientation is just a small part of who you are and I'm actually really annoyed with the flamboyant fashion queens and lesbians who feel they have to dress like dudes to fit the part. For them, homosexuality seems to be their entire lifestyle, it's the only thing that defines them, can't stand that kind of people. (don't get me wrong, if that's their genuine personality, fine. But letting oneself be molded into what the world expects you to be is what I have a problem with.) Hope I'm not being offensive.

That's one thing that ME has done right. Traynor and Cortez are not showing off their sexual orientation with steriotypical annoyances, they just happen to be gay.

Personally I'm a bisexual female, playing a female Garrusmancing Shepard. Before dat dextro became an LI, though, I was very happy to have Liara as a LI in ME1. I chose her because I liked both her personality and appearance more than Kaidan.

I also play all kinds of other Shepards to experience different romances.

PLAY ALL THE SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS!

ROMANCE ALL THE LIs!

It's a role-playing game after all

PS. I know straight male gamers who play Cortezmancers and Kaidanmancers because they like the characters, and that's what it's supposed to be about, isn't it? Both IRL and in games.

Theoretically I agree with you: sexual orientation is not 100% of ones personalty, of course not.

But you have to cut the folks some slack.

First, straight people shove their sexual interest and orientation into everyone's face all the time. It's just so common and all over the place in various forms and mutations that nobody thinks about it anymore. But it's there. So it's a bit unfair to let straight people do this but tell gay people that it's annoying if they do the same.

Secondly, finding a mate, falling in love and all that IS a big deal for everyone (YMMW). So, it is kinda understandable if people show there interests and orientations publicly.

Thirdly, we live in a society that is dominated by the straight mind set. Forming a sub-culture is a very, very refreshing and comforting experience for gays. It's a comfort zone. And within that comfort zone, dressing like a parrot (or butch or whatever) may not be as exotic as it appears from people outside that comfort zone. So, maybe, the flamboyant behavior isn't meant as a signal to straight people or a political statement or anything. It simply can be the "normal" dress for people in their particular peer group or express the personality of the guy / gal at that time. Pretty much like punks or whatever.

Fourthly, there is no country in the world that is completely free of homophobic tendencies. They got more subtle in many western countries, but they will persist for a long time. And they are actually on the rise again, at least here in europe. So, there is still need for a "movement" and the stuff that this entails.

You wrote yourself that you are fine with this all in all, so my post is not directed at you. I just took the opportunity to do a little preaching

[nrobbiec]

That was a great read, Baelrahn

[Dieb]

Wow, thanks.

Stating an opinion on things you have no clue, but still feel the need to speak about, tends to make you sweat bullets.

[ollyollyoxenfree]

I really like the Cortez relationship but it seems unfair to hook up with a guy who can't let go of his dead love when you have a high likelihood of dying in the very recent future. If you aren't a Destroy Ending person you're totally setting the poor guy up for (another) major fall.

[Valo_Soren]

I couldn't wrap my head around it either when they announced same sex romances for ME 3 but then I remembered I was basing my thoughts on how I play my Shepard males as usually straight but also not sticking to just humans, one male shep is with Ashley, one with Tali and one with Liara, so its not to much of a stretch to think that Shepard may be accepting of same gender romances as well. This time peroid the games take place in there isn't anymore prejudice against homosexuality or heterosexuality you love who you love. As a straight guy in real life for me it would make more sense for me to play a male shep who didn't date any of the girls in the first two games and then suddenly realizing he has feelings for Kaiden, or Steve Cortez and then for me, personally thats easier to accept because making him bisexual just seems like a cop out. I love Dragon Age II but I didn't like how apparently everyone was bisexual and you could romance any of the characters male or female whether or not you were male or female, now granted some were harder to romance then others but you could still do it with either a guy or a girl, at least they presented the possibility of same sex romance in Mass Effect far more realistically. And I do have a fem shep who is with Liara but its hard to count that as a same sex romance when Asari are mono-gendered.