252 réponses à ce sujet

[HiddenInWar]

Robosexual wrote...

Question for the gay guys here:

Does Shepard, throughout the series, represent you? Or are they Shepard, their own defined character?

Yeah, I do feel like my canon maleshep is an extension of myself. I do sprinkle moments where I'm curious about what this or that option does, simply out of curiosity, not something i'd neccessarily choose.

[Kunari801]

RustyMcBlade wrote...

Hey guys, I always noticed how many users here on BSN like Steve Cortez and gay Kaiden Alenko as their LIs. ...

Do you guys choose those characters as your Lis because of your sexual orientation or just for storytelling purposes?...

*casually points to signature* 

I started playing Mass Effect with ME2 launched. I didn't know Kaidan until I went back and purchased ME1, but I fell for him because he fit with my first ME1 Shepard's personality just perfect. mShenko will always hold a special place in my heart for the years of unrequited desire (both in game and real) it's probably the best, and most tragic, love story in Mass Effect.

Steve Cortez is also a awesome character. I like his romance arc as well, but he's so much more than just a "gay character". I have one Shepard as him as my LI but it doesn't hold a candle to mShenko.

I have one FemShep but she's a Kaidan/Garrus/ *undecided* LI Shepard.  I didn't get her PT ready in time for Citadel.  

No I don't just play for gay romances:  I also have a Liara LI Shepard.  Another Shepard that romanced Miranda then Tali in a NG+ in ME2, that was awkward when ME3 recognized both romances.   

[HiddenInWar]

Wow.

I was expecting a full blown storm in this thread but for the most part, I'm finding rational discussions and friendly attitudes.

I'm proud of you BSN.

[tracer667]

This thread is really great! As a straight male who is a champion for gay rights and gender equality, I find it truly heartwarming that there is so much support for both among the gaming community.

I was thrilled that Mass Effect took the issue of gay relationships in a very "so what" kind of way. In the same way that, as some previous poster mentioned, Babylon 5 did. In the future, no one will care. I was very happy to see ME deal with gay relationships with respect and dignity. +1 BioWare.

Personally, when I play a game and I'm given the choice of gender, I always choose female. I play what I want to see. So part of it is I'm a straight male and I like boobs. But also, I find the storyline of a strong female lead to be more interesting. Someone earlier said something like "straight white guy saves the universe is boring." So true! It's been done to death! But give me a strong female lead with an interesting story, I'll choose her every time. And for much the same reason, my LI was chosen the same way. I loved that Liara was strong, highly intelligent, and a badass. And it just made sense (to me) that FemShep would find that highly attractive. My FemShep makes the decisions I would make.

[Vigilant111]

Kaidan and I (I mean Shepard) are well acquainted personally and intimately, we no longer need to grasp every second of game time to engage in meaningful conversations - we have developed a mutual understanding of each other, and as a result we rarely talk anymore, but we know we love each other

I guess the romance arc is always secondary, but I know I will like ME3 much less if I was not able to romance anyone

[Terraforming2154]

Baelrahn wrote...

Beep Il wrote...

Liara and Kelly were available for FemShep, but where were all the options for gay BroShep? I know, I know, two girls are hot, but two guys are icky. Gotta love double standards.

Honestly, being the guy that never has the heart to do anything different to see other content, I always thought Jacob in ME2 was a gay romance option. The way Shepard's tone and gesture changes when talking to him privately aboard the Normandy left me without a doubt that he's attracted to Jacob. As a guy, you can either compliment him at any given situation, or really just be a jerk.

And as for "double standards", I think this is a foundamentally wrong assumption, or choice of words. Because "two chicks are hot" is a statement both by and for straight males, who simply see two "objects of their sexual desire" naked. It's not them appreciating those women being outspokenly gay, for that matter.

Thank you for saying this.

I agree that there are more s/s options for femshep -- but look at the content of those relationships. Liara's relationship is nice, but Traynor's relationship is only fleshed out because of the Citadel DLC, Kelly's relationship was a fling for ME2, and Diana isn't even worth talking about.

I'm very glad that male players got the option for Kaidan and Steve, who had relationships that seemed quite fleshed out instead of relationships bordering on the edge of a sexual fling (Samantha and Kelly definitely toe that line, even though I like them both).

I still think that male players should have had s/s relationships since ME1, and I just wish female players had gotten more substantive content for Samantha or maybe even Ashley or another actual crewmate instead.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 14 mars 2013 - 09:12 .

[Vigilant111]

Terraforming2154 wrote...

I still think that male players should have had s/s relationships since ME3, and I just wish female players had gotten more substantive content for Samantha or maybe even Ashley or another actual crewmate instead.

U meant ME1?

[jonman21]

HiddenInWar wrote...

Wow.

I was expecting a full blown storm in this thread but for the most part, I'm finding rational discussions and friendly attitudes.

I'm proud of you BSN.

Agreed.  This thread makes me so happy to be a relative newcomer to the BSN.

I'm a gay gamer myself - although, to be honest, I've never really considered myself a gamer.  I've owned an Xbox 360 since 2005 but (don't make fun of me) primarily to stream media from my computer to my TV!  I bought a couple games here and there - mostly RPGs (like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion) - but lost interest not long after purchasing them.  I've always been a fan of RPGs just because I like to consider the protagonist either an extension of myself or an extension of who I strive to be.  

So when someone recommended Mass Effect to me (as an action/RPG hybrid) - I decided to try it out.  I remember as a young kid, I got Wing Commander IV for Christmas and that game actually captured my attention (with its great characters, storyline, and cinematics) -- but the gameplay was never a big focus for me.  Likewise, when I first started Mass Effect 1, the combat sequences were fun for me, but never my primary focus - I always found myself wanting to get through combat levels just to get the chance to talk to my crew!  Slowly, over time, I found myself enjoying the gameplay as well - especially on subsequent playthroughs when I got to try new classes.

My MaleShep always wanted to romance Kaidan since the first game -- but since that wasn't possible, I reluctantly chose Liara but also flirted with Ashley.   I remember the moment when I thought to myself, "HOLY CRAP this game is awesome!" - and that was when Liara and Ashley confronted me after one of the main missions with their jealousy and made me choose one or the other --- mainly because I was thinking - "they really thought about tons of permutations of scenarios and I can't believe they programmed this into the game."  Really sucked me into the universe at that point and made me care about all the characters.

I really love what they did with Shepard & Kaidan's romance in ME3 and how they played it like Shepard was always so focused on the mission and how he didn't have time to think about anyone romantically.   It made me so happy that their pairing became an official choice in ME3, even though I wish it could've been official way earlier.

Later when I played a modded Shep/Kaidan romance in ME1/ME2, I was so pleased to see that Mark Meer recorded lines specifically for the modded romance -- most of the lines were present during the Priority:Mars mission.

Now I can't imagine any of my Shepards (I exclusively play Male Shepards only because I can't really get into Jennifer Hale's voice) with anyone but Kaidan.  I like flirting with Steve at Purgatory but just don't see it as being realistic to start a relationship with him after helping him get over his recently deceased husband.  Though I'm super proud of BioWare for putting two same-sex romance options for Male Shepard into the game.


TL; DR -- Read this instead:

Anyway, I'm rambling now -- but for all of your mShenko fans out there, were you aware that the pre-Cronos romance scene had recorded dialogue for the modded romance that, for some reason, cannot be unlocked as a cinematic?  It seems to parallel the FemShep/Kaidan love scene, although I noticed a couple of distinct differences (like in how Male Shep says 'I love you' to Kaidan...seems so much more heartfelt coming from Mark Meer than Hale's stoic 'You mean a lot to me. I love you.')

Check it out here if you haven't heard the audio before:  novaraptor.tumblr.com/post/21929959063/cut-romance-dialogue-sheploo-kaidan-im

So. many. feels. This dialogue will forever be canon for me with my Shepard & Kaidan. Just wish there was a way to unlock it in the game.

Modifié par jonman21, 14 mars 2013 - 04:47 .

[Vigilant111]

jonman21 wrote...

Check it out here if you haven't heard the audio before:  novaraptor.tumblr.com/post/21929959063/cut-romance-dialogue-sheploo-kaidan-im

So. many. feels. This dialogue will forever be canon for me with my Shepard & Kaidan. Just wish there was a way to unlock it in the game.

Listening to those lines makes me want to play the game again

[Tibbur]

That's because being gay is just being accepted in society. I think it's going to take while before we see the first fully openly gay lead character by a mainstream publisher.

Modifié par Tibbur, 14 mars 2013 - 05:00 .

[impingu1984]

I'm Male but play FemShep (Liara or Garrus as LI). I'm straight and happily married to my wife. (just for background).

Anyway I was playing ME3 when my wifes gay friend came round. At this point Steve was talking to Shep about his Husband.

She instantly said it was cool that a video game treated gay marriage as normal, As I explained the love interest thing within the game and how it's possible for gay and lesbian relationships she was pretty impressed.

I have a great deal of respect for Bioware for including gay content and not caving to the "anti-gays". Hell even EA spoke out and stood up for gay marriage.

[nrobbiec]

jonman21 wrote...

Check it out here if you haven't heard the audio before:  novaraptor.tumblr.com/post/21929959063/cut-romance-dialogue-sheploo-kaidan-im

So. many. feels. This dialogue will forever be canon for me with my Shepard & Kaidan. Just wish there was a way to unlock it in the game.

Aww. There can never be enough mshenko in the world.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Well, OP. There are a lot of gay gamers here. But I rather see them as gamers who happen to be gay. There's a difference. I think it is cool that BW tries to treat them as any other gamer. It was not always that way, but fortunately for them the company treats them more and more as one of the many groups of people in their audience. Most gamers here share a lot of the same interests. Not all share exactly the same interests, though, and some differ in their sexuality. It's one aspect of many. That's fine by me.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 14 mars 2013 - 05:32 .

[jonman21]

nrobbiec wrote...

jonman21 wrote...

Check it out here if you haven't heard the audio before:  novaraptor.tumblr.com/post/21929959063/cut-romance-dialogue-sheploo-kaidan-im

So. many. feels. This dialogue will forever be canon for me with my Shepard & Kaidan. Just wish there was a way to unlock it in the game.

Aww. There can never be enough mshenko in the world.

Agreed

[Battlebloodmage]

Robosexual wrote...

Question for the gay guys here:

Does Shepard, throughout the series, represent you? Or are they Shepard, their own defined character?

I often try to make the character looks more like me. While I play as Shepard, I immerse as him, so It's a bit annoying when I can't play as myself while the female LIs keep throwing themselves at me. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Vigilant111 wrote...

jonman21 wrote...

Check it out here if you haven't heard the audio before:  novaraptor.tumblr.com/post/21929959063/cut-romance-dialogue-sheploo-kaidan-im

So. many. feels. This dialogue will forever be canon for me with my Shepard & Kaidan. Just wish there was a way to unlock it in the game.

Listening to those lines makes me want to play the game again

Now I'm mad that they include that in the game, they just cut everything out for Maleshep while most of Femshep always have something extra like touching Kaidan's cheek, sit on top of Kaidan. 

[L2 Sentinel]

Baelrahn wrote...

Wow, that's rough. It's funny that this example made me understand what it's like to feel like an outcast. Really, I have never thought about that aspect before... talk about being indoctrinated. Even if there are zero love scenes, most games don't leave a doubt in terms of your protagonist's sexual orientation. Be it a flirty remark, a backstory with an ex-wife, you name it.

Hey, I'm glad my story did that for you. Don't feel too bad. In all likelihood, you are more aware than I probably would have been had I not been forced to experience what it was like firsthand. I really struggled with coming to terms with my sexuality. I was really sold on the idea of growing up and having a wife, kids, a dog, white picket-fence and all that jazz. That imagery is so ingrained in our culture. I didn't have any examples of what gay love looked like when I was growing up. It would have made the process so much easier for me if I knew how normal it actually was. I had to teach myself that there was nothing to be ashamed of.

I started reading books and watching movies with gay characters, but they had little impact. Most gay stories I've come across either about HIV/AIDS awareness, incredibly campy and completely lacking in substance, or are just simply depressing. I thought I had gotten to the point in my life where I didn't need it anymore. Then I played ME3... I don't know whether it's the interactive elements, if the writing and voice acting is just that good, or if I just respond better to video games, but I've never cared about a love story so much before. I didn't even think it was possible to get that strong of an emotional response from me.

Never knew I could feel like this
Like I've never seen the sky before

It's one of my favorite song lyrics. It felt appropriate. Talking about it like this is kind of embarassing, but I thought it was worth sharing.

Baelrahn wrote...
Even if it's about the only thing I was positively surprised
about regarding the writing of the recent Tomb Raider reboot, Lara being
an attractive female is a non-topic throughout the game.

I know virtually nothing about Tomb Raider, but I like the visual direction they've taken with Lara Croft in the new game. She is still a very attractive woman, but she doesn't look like she is prioritizing showing off her body over wearing a functional outfit. I can't comment on the writing. I just hope they don't credit the negative response to the game to Lara's new look.

Baelrahn wrote...
Well, in movies, how about basically every character Johnny Depp ever played? Still, I know hardly any women who would say no to him.

I've heard it somewhere that Depp plays all his characters as if they were gay. I don't know if I agree with his process, but I like the effect it has. Captain Jack Sparrow was only made better by being on the theatrical side of things. And the character is straight, so the audience understands that flamboyance is not an exclusive trait of male homosexuality.

Baelrahn wrote...
Like I said. When I'm lost in deep space with my cool space ship, I need a cool space crew to rely on. I don't know of any gay or straight varieties in oxygen, and even if so, I wouldn't give a damn.

It's just safe to assume, we won't be heading for any extrasolar journeys as long as we're still debating what backsides we should look at, rather than horizons.

That's a good way to look at it.

Modifié par Rauhel, 15 mars 2013 - 02:48 .

[coinop25]

I'm a straight guy; some of my Shepards have been straight guys, some have been straight gals, and some have guys seeking guys or gals seeking gals. Depends on the story I feel like telling.

[Asch Lavigne]

Maybe a bit off topic but I'm a straight guy who plays FemShep and romanced Garrus. It has nothing to do with sexuality, I liked FemShep better and Garrus was my favorite character. Though my fiance thought it was a little weird at first.

[coinop25]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Maybe a bit off topic but I'm a straight guy who plays FemShep and romanced Garrus. It has nothing to do with sexuality, I liked FemShep better and Garrus was my favorite character. Though my fiance thought it was a little weird at first.

If I may follow up with my own side note: My favorite Shepard is a woman who romanced Garrus, and now that is my fiancee's favorite Shepard too. I think it might help that I tend to refer to Shepard as "Shepard" rather than "I" – always "Shepard is with Garrus," never "I am getting jiggy with a turian." ;-)

Kind of funny that they let you romance armor-plated aliens before they let dudes romance dudes of the same species, but at least they got around to both. It was kind of sad playing as a man crushing on Kaiden for the first two games. 

[kobayashi-maru]

The strange thing is that while it would have been great to have had s/s option from beginning the whole Kaiden arc actually works better because of it. In ME1 it had some hints (the whole cinematic whern you visit him), in 2 the Normandy destruction goodbye and especially the meeting on colony. From a storytelling point of view it actually gives the Citadel date scene more depth and impact.

Modifié par kobayashi-maru, 15 mars 2013 - 05:29 .

[Battlebloodmage]

kobayashi-maru wrote...

The strange thing is that while it would have been great to have had s/s option from beginning the whole Kaiden arc actually works better because of it. In ME1 it had some hints (the whole cinematic whern you visit him), in 2 the Normandy destruction goodbye and especially the meeting on colony. From a storytelling point of view it actually gives the Citadel date scene more depth and impact.

I still don't understand why they can't just implement it. Kaidan and Shepard's lines were recorded. I feel like they removed it due to the controversy. 

At any rate, what's done is done. I'm hoping that the next ME game will have M/M romance from the very beginning. I don't even have the desire to play the previous 2 games because I feel like something is always missing. <_<

[HiddenInWar]

jonman21 wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

jonman21 wrote...

Check it out here if you haven't heard the audio before:  novaraptor.tumblr.com/post/21929959063/cut-romance-dialogue-sheploo-kaidan-im

So. many. feels. This dialogue will forever be canon for me with my Shepard & Kaidan. Just wish there was a way to unlock it in the game.

Aww. There can never be enough mshenko in the world.

Agreed

One of my main OTP's 

mshenko makes the world go round

[AndreasShepard]

kobayashi-maru wrote...

The strange thing is that while it would have been great to have had s/s option from beginning the whole Kaiden arc actually works better because of it. In ME1 it had some hints (the whole cinematic whern you visit him), in 2 the Normandy destruction goodbye and especially the meeting on colony. From a storytelling point of view it actually gives the Citadel date scene more depth and impact.

/agree
I much prefer the idea of them having a mutual attraction to one another but never really acting on it until the third game since by then they've been through a lot and saved each other's asses so many times that it seems like it's finally time to put military protocol aside, plus the impending end of the galaxy seems to have a way of making people value the important things in life.
Mass Effect 1 was to me more about being introduced to the ME universe and was much heavier on the rules and regulations of being an alliance soldier so while starting the romance then would have been nice I ultimately don't mind it not being there as I was busy learning about alien races and exploring.  But they were definitely building a good friendship throughout the process.

[kobayashi-maru]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

kobayashi-maru wrote...

The strange thing is that while it would have been great to have had s/s option from beginning the whole Kaiden arc actually works better because of it. In ME1 it had some hints (the whole cinematic whern you visit him), in 2 the Normandy destruction goodbye and especially the meeting on colony. From a storytelling point of view it actually gives the Citadel date scene more depth and impact.

I still don't understand why they can't just implement it. Kaidan and Shepard's lines were recorded. I feel like they removed it due to the controversy. 

At any rate, what's done is done. I'm hoping that the next ME game will have M/M romance from the very beginning. I don't even have the desire to play the previous 2 games because I feel like something is always missing. <_<

The probably could have done it during the port to PS3 but maybe to complicated to patch as even the PC mods have some issues - think its some tiny missing pieces of cinematic and dialogue. I'm not 100% sure on the issue (on xbox so no modding) and maybe some legal stuff with ME1 especially as it was pre EA.

Modifié par kobayashi-maru, 15 mars 2013 - 05:53 .