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How much of a role do BSNers play in Balance Changes?


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#51
holdenagincourt

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Bechter wrote...

If I had confidence in them reaching a proper balance through thoughtful buffs I would agree. There is no assurance that this is their plan. Judging by Eric Fagnan's comments on the Spitfire I don't see it coming. 

The Reegar is unchanged other than a weight increase and they buffed the pirahna before perfoming major nerfs to the weapon.


Mind linking me to his comments on Spitfire? I didn't catch those.

Yeah and the fact that Reegar has only ever received a pretty minor weight nerf, Krysae is only worth taking now on the classes that led to it being nerfed in the first place, and Piranha received a buff that was then rolled back only weeks later does make me wonder at the criteria the balance team use for their changes.

#52
RoundedPlanet88

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I think people are confusing causes and effects here. Most of the time when the BSN ah "implodes" over a kit/weapon/character, it NEEDS a buff/nerf. So it is then buffed/nerfed, not because of the BSN, but because it actually needed it, people then point at the BSN, saying "Oh look, they called for "X", and "X" got "Y`ed", so its THIER fault." when in reality it had nothing to do with the BSN, and EVERYTHING to do with balance.

#53
Original Twigman

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Arctican wrote...

I think BSN play a small, but still important role in the balance changes. For example, I recall someone asking if they could make the Falcon lighter and one of the Bioware staff said he'll look into it. A week or two later, the Falcon X had the new weight of 1.0.

Now, there are probably more cases of BSN asking for buffs and nerfs that are never realized
For example, consider the Harrier and Reegar, neither of which have been nerfed at all really.

Overall, I think BSN merely brings attention to a potential balance concern, but the actual balances changes are decided by the statistics and data that Bioware uses.


I want to believe this to be true, but the last balance changes seem to have skewed tha tconcept (considering the AIU, which probably didn't have the stats to back up the nerf)

I want to think they are objective, in that they don't take into account anecdotal stories... but this balance change was a bit wierd with tthat... or could it just be situtational as the game is coming to an end??

#54
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_only1biggs_ wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

This is to ask the question, how much do BSNers impact ideas for balance changes.


Not really. In the same way that you might have an affect on a passing stranger that you smile at. Said stranger just might have need to be noticed, the person having the impact could have been anyone.
People on BSN call for nerfs on the things that stand out the most and think that they have an affect on the balance changes, or call for buffs that clearly need to be implemented and again think they have had some influence.
All that happens is, the devs looks at the data/gameplay (without testing things properly first), then act accordingly.

Anyone who thinks that they directly affected the change, is a self absorbed moron.

Bioware can say, "we listen to the community" and "it's a shared experience we've built together", but that's just good sense to allow the people who play their game to feel involved.


I dunno, like Arcitcan said, there have been some instances where people bring something up and thigns get done.

I believe Bjorn (and me to a lesser degree) brought up the issue that the batarian vanguard was 9% off from staggering a phantom without power evolutions in his passives (as opposed to almost every other vangaurd)... a few weeks later it was changed to make up that 9%.

#55
whateverman7

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Original Stikman wrote...

I think this is an interesting point:

Do you think, because bioware thought this multiplayer would flop, that they needed to "improv" the balance of the multiplayer? Do you think they will develop a better system now that they know people are interested, or do you tihnk that it will be a similar mishmash?

Do the devs still have a lot to learn or do they got the right idea and just need some tweaking?

I wonder what the devs think on this matter as well


you're not talking to me, but i have thoughts on this:

- i dont think they thought the multi would flop, but i doubt they thought it would catch on and have staying power like it did/does....

- i think they did a great job at the first go round for mp, but they have more to learn/apply when it comes to the 'balance' part...some of their changes were made to make people play everything equally; which isnt gonna happen, plus it canceled out the tier system they set up....some of their changes were centered around the minority good players instead of the majority good players; hence the reason most of the changes were 'balanced' around the highest difficulty level

..when it comes to mp and me4, i think they can learn a lot from me3's mp and the future can only be better...

#56
Bechter

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holdenagincourt wrote...

Bechter wrote...

If I had confidence in them reaching a proper balance through thoughtful buffs I would agree. There is no assurance that this is their plan. Judging by Eric Fagnan's comments on the Spitfire I don't see it coming. 

The Reegar is unchanged other than a weight increase and they buffed the pirahna before perfoming major nerfs to the weapon.


Mind linking me to his comments on Spitfire? I didn't catch those.

Yeah and the fact that Reegar has only ever received a pretty minor weight nerf, Krysae is only worth taking now on the classes that led to it being nerfed in the first place, and Piranha received a buff that was then rolled back only weeks later does make me wonder at the criteria the balance team use for their changes.


spifire comments. http://social.biowar...x/16205810&lf=8

#57
Original Twigman

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Bechter wrote...

They have more than they should. Bioware overreacts often to videos and BSN herd mentality on balance. Having to adjust this many things only 2 weeks after release shows Bioware are pretty clueless internally when it comes to balance. The pre-nerfing of almost all reckoning DLC weapons is a great example.


Lulz

So what do you think could be done to improve balance concepts? Do you think bioware's ME team is just inexperienced with this type of gameplay and had to work with what they had in terms of staff to balance the game??

Also, i agree with the first part of your sentance.

It seems like the forum members have a lot more say than they should, especially some of the more vocal PC guys who seem to take it unto themselves to be psuedo game designers. Not saying console players aren't at fault here either, just highlighting the more recent changes

#58
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whateverman7 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

I think this is an interesting point:

Do you think, because bioware thought this multiplayer would flop, that they needed to "improv" the balance of the multiplayer? Do you think they will develop a better system now that they know people are interested, or do you tihnk that it will be a similar mishmash?

Do the devs still have a lot to learn or do they got the right idea and just need some tweaking?

I wonder what the devs think on this matter as well


some of their changes were centered around the minority good players instead of the majority good players; hence the reason most of the changes were 'balanced' around the highest difficulty level


Can you explain more on this part, particularly in the difference betwee minority/majority of good players? I am pretty curious as to what you have to say.

#59
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TeamLexana wrote...

I can't decide if this is a good thing or bad thing myself. 


This is a pivotal part of my thinking as well... I wonder what can be done to minimize the bad. It seems apparent to me that the AIU nerf was an overreaction, and not needed considering it will have little impact on the kits performance, but still annoyingly hinders it

#60
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RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

I think people are confusing causes and effects here. Most of the time when the BSN ah "implodes" over a kit/weapon/character, it NEEDS a buff/nerf. So it is then buffed/nerfed, not because of the BSN, but because it actually needed it, people then point at the BSN, saying "Oh look, they called for "X", and "X" got "Y`ed", so its THIER fault." when in reality it had nothing to do with the BSN, and EVERYTHING to do with balance.


Hmm, evidence would point to the contrary on this. BSN didn't "implode" over the AIU, a few posters trolled others and got people to start talking about it in a very opposing manner. There was even a poll that suggested that most players didn't want the thing nerfed, but if you looked at the posts, it seemed to contradict that because the "nerf" threads were gettting more hits than the "stfu" threads.

On the otherside, you have certain heads whining about the inilftrator's cloak and reegar damage, but hardly anyone engages them, so it doesn't really become an issue.

#61
DarkseidXIII

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0 influence. Balance changes are done. HOORAY!

#62
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I knew you would be upset about the AIU nerf. She's still an awesome character though.

I think BSN plays a small role in balance changes, but BW probably relies on their own internal data collected on the game more than anything else. BW has proven time and time again that they don't exactly know what they're doing when it comes to balance.

#63
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FlashAK wrote...

I knew you would be upset about the AIU nerf. She's still an awesome character though.

I think BSN plays a small role in balance changes, but BW probably relies on their own internal data collected on the game more than anything else. BW has proven time and time again that they don't exactly know what they're doing when it comes to balance.


tbh, i really don't care.

I am more upset with the outcome of petty heads trolling the boards and having influence on a game to which some aren't even very good at.

So, instead of being upset with the lesser-ones, I prefer to turn that into curiosity as to the process of balance changes.

I mean, when you think about it, how do you collect data on the impact/effectiveness of DR% or shields regen??

Same with the effectiveness of duration on ascension mode... how do you collect data on the usefulness of its duration and power/damage taken ratio?

If players are influencing the thought process, or at least bringing up topics for the devs to discuss at work, why not involve us in the process as well?? I am not saying get us involved in what to do... what I mean is, why not provide some explanation, statistics, and more? Afterall, with the information age, shouldn't we not be having more access to information rather than being left in the dark?

#64
RoundedPlanet88

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Original Stikman wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

I think people are confusing causes and effects here. Most of the time when the BSN ah "implodes" over a kit/weapon/character, it NEEDS a buff/nerf. So it is then buffed/nerfed, not because of the BSN, but because it actually needed it, people then point at the BSN, saying "Oh look, they called for "X", and "X" got "Y`ed", so its THIER fault." when in reality it had nothing to do with the BSN, and EVERYTHING to do with balance.


Hmm, evidence would point to the contrary on this. BSN didn't "implode" over the AIU, a few posters trolled others and got people to start talking about it in a very opposing manner. There was even a poll that suggested that most players didn't want the thing nerfed, but if you looked at the posts, it seemed to contradict that because the "nerf" threads were gettting more hits than the "stfu" threads.

On the otherside, you have certain heads whining about the inilftrator's cloak and reegar damage, but hardly anyone engages them, so it doesn't really become an issue.


BSN actually did implode over the AIU, I haven't seen so many threads regarding any one kit/weapon in such a short time ever, including the original krysae  ****storm. I honestly can`t recall a single time when the number of AIU threads on the first page alone was lower than 3. And the sheer amount of threads that got derailed by it are also worthy of note. And there`s some things that have essentially become set in stone, infiltrators cloak, and the reegar are at that point.

 In fact, this(set in stone mentality) actually kinda explains all the  "LOLWTF?" threads over the pahsedisrupter buff, And don`t tell me that the BSN had anything to do to that, It surprised everyone. Some of the other Balance changes are the same way, (I can`t remember specific number/changes, but There was a vindicator nerf at one pint correct?). Arguing that the BSN has a noticeable role in balance changes fits SOME of the facts, but it fails to cover them all, and like any other theory, it only takes 1 counter example to prove an argument invalid.

#65
hostaman

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A few BSN big mouths suceed in ruining the game for the rest of us every time.

Look at the poll for SexBot nerfs.  A good 67% voted no to nerfs, and only 16% activley wanted a nerf.

( social.bioware.com/4003976/polls/44068/ )

Unfortunatly a few self appointed "experts" like to tell everyone how to play the game, and BW give them too much air time.

The same is true in SP.  :(

#66
RoundedPlanet88

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hostaman wrote...

A few BSN big mouths suceed in ruining the game for the rest of us every time.

Look at the poll for SexBot nerfs.  A good 67% voted no to nerfs, and only 16% activley wanted a nerf.

( social.bioware.com/4003976/polls/44068/ )

Unfortunatly a few self appointed "experts" like to tell everyone how to play the game, and BW give them too much air time.

The same is true in SP.  :(

I bet that roughly 85% of the BSN wanted the original krysae to no get nerfed.  unfortunately for the majority of the BSN, turns out Bioware actually likes balance on some things. And to be fair, they are trying their best. Overall, I personally think they have done a very god job of balancing, there`s a couple of things that are vastly underpowered, and some that are stupidly OP, but overall they have done a rather good job.

#67
MichaelFinnegan

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Original Stikman wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

What I hope for ME4 is that the devs come up with a better metric for gauging what is it that they want to balance things around. I have a suspicion that they are also in the dark (as many of us are) about how really to balance the game.


I think this is an interesting point:

Do you think, because bioware thought this multiplayer would flop, that they needed to "improv" the balance of the multiplayer?

Actually, no. I don't think they'd have come up with the idea of the ME3 MP assuming that it might flop. It has been a tremendous success for the most part, which kind of goes to show, at least for me, that they put in a lot of hard work and love to make it happen (and people don't put that kind of dedication thinking that the game would fail). (That probably sounds a bit circular, but it kind of makes sense to me.) It's true that they might not have anticipated how much of a success it would eventually end up achieving.

The idea of balance, at least in this MP, seems simple. They want to make all kits (characters) equally viable across all difficulties. Perhaps they balanced some weapons to be able to work on certain difficulties, which might explain the classification of them into what roughly translates into easily unlockable and max to ultra hard to unlock and max. The more time you invest in the game lets you transition to higher difficulties in tandem with the better weapons you're likely to unlock along the way. It's mutual progression.

It's a bit easy to empathize with the way they went about it also. It must have been a massive undertaking for them, this first time foray into the MP universe. And as is true anywhere it is very difficult for the devs to imagine the myriad of different ways in which their work would have been used by tens of thousands of users all over the world. Also time is a luxuary that they'd not have to do this kind of massive testing. So balance, fixes, etc. are a kind of a necessity, to achieve the goal they might have started off with.

Do you think they will develop a better system now that they know people are interested, or do you tihnk that it will be a similar mishmash?

Only time will tell. In the next installement, I hope they don't provide something similar to what we have now. I'd definitely think twice before playing that, if it remained close to similar (the novelty of experiencing the ME universe with others has already worn thin for me).

Definitely, they need to do some work, in my opinion. The AI definitely needs to get better. We're looking at next gen consoles and perhaps a new game engine on the horizon, so we can afford to get our hopes up, I guess, at least for larger maps, more ability in the AI to compute and so on.

Adding the Juggernaut, at such a late stage even, was a great move by them. This gives a much needed (my opinion) gameplay variation. A character that no longer relies on doing damage, but to withstand damage. Infiltrators can be improved I guess by tactical cloak providing more utility than mere damage, as most people seem to play this class. So I hope for more character roles along these lines. An engineer class geared more for repairing (like the Cerberus Engineers repair Atlases). The possibilities are probably varied.

Do the devs still have a lot to learn or do they got the right idea and just need some tweaking?

I wonder what the devs think on this matter as well

No, definitely not just tweaking. They will probably have to come up with more gameplay modes/options, for starters. Perhaps richer and more varied maps. The theme could be based on what ME4 as a universe could offer, of course.

And as I said before, I think this game could do with a PvP mode as well. PvP will keep this game alive a lot longer also, in my opinion.

#68
Original Twigman

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RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

I think people are confusing causes and effects here. Most of the time when the BSN ah "implodes" over a kit/weapon/character, it NEEDS a buff/nerf. So it is then buffed/nerfed, not because of the BSN, but because it actually needed it, people then point at the BSN, saying "Oh look, they called for "X", and "X" got "Y`ed", so its THIER fault." when in reality it had nothing to do with the BSN, and EVERYTHING to do with balance.


Hmm, evidence would point to the contrary on this. BSN didn't "implode" over the AIU, a few posters trolled others and got people to start talking about it in a very opposing manner. There was even a poll that suggested that most players didn't want the thing nerfed, but if you looked at the posts, it seemed to contradict that because the "nerf" threads were gettting more hits than the "stfu" threads.

On the otherside, you have certain heads whining about the inilftrator's cloak and reegar damage, but hardly anyone engages them, so it doesn't really become an issue.


BSN actually did implode over the AIU, I haven't seen so many threads regarding any one kit/weapon in such a short time ever, including the original krysae  ****storm. I honestly can`t recall a single time when the number of AIU threads on the first page alone was lower than 3. And the sheer amount of threads that got derailed by it are also worthy of note. And there`s some things that have essentially become set in stone, infiltrators cloak, and the reegar are at that point.

 In fact, this(set in stone mentality) actually kinda explains all the  "LOLWTF?" threads over the pahsedisrupter buff, And don`t tell me that the BSN had anything to do to that, It surprised everyone. Some of the other Balance changes are the same way, (I can`t remember specific number/changes, but There was a vindicator nerf at one pint correct?). Arguing that the BSN has a noticeable role in balance changes fits SOME of the facts, but it fails to cover them all, and like any other theory, it only takes 1 counter example to prove an argument invalid.


You seem to think i said that BSN influences all balance changes...

i did not...

#69
Original Twigman

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MichaelFinnegan wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

What I hope for ME4 is that the devs come up with a better metric for gauging what is it that they want to balance things around. I have a suspicion that they are also in the dark (as many of us are) about how really to balance the game.


I think this is an interesting point:

Do you think, because bioware thought this multiplayer would flop, that they needed to "improv" the balance of the multiplayer?

Actually, no. I don't think they'd have come up with the idea of the ME3 MP assuming that it might flop. It has been a tremendous success for the most part, which kind of goes to show, at least for me, that they put in a lot of hard work and love to make it happen (and people don't put that kind of dedication thinking that the game would fail). (That probably sounds a bit circular, but it kind of makes sense to me.) It's true that they might not have anticipated how much of a success it would eventually end up achieving.

The idea of balance, at least in this MP, seems simple. They want to make all kits (characters) equally viable across all difficulties. Perhaps they balanced some weapons to be able to work on certain difficulties, which might explain the classification of them into what roughly translates into easily unlockable and max to ultra hard to unlock and max. The more time you invest in the game lets you transition to higher difficulties in tandem with the better weapons you're likely to unlock along the way. It's mutual progression.

It's a bit easy to empathize with the way they went about it also. It must have been a massive undertaking for them, this first time foray into the MP universe. And as is true anywhere it is very difficult for the devs to imagine the myriad of different ways in which their work would have been used by tens of thousands of users all over the world. Also time is a luxuary that they'd not have to do this kind of massive testing. So balance, fixes, etc. are a kind of a necessity, to achieve the goal they might have started off with.

Do you think they will develop a better system now that they know people are interested, or do you tihnk that it will be a similar mishmash?

Only time will tell. In the next installement, I hope they don't provide something similar to what we have now. I'd definitely think twice before playing that, if it remained close to similar (the novelty of experiencing the ME universe with others has already worn thin for me).

Definitely, they need to do some work, in my opinion. The AI definitely needs to get better. We're looking at next gen consoles and perhaps a new game engine on the horizon, so we can afford to get our hopes up, I guess, at least for larger maps, more ability in the AI to compute and so on.

Adding the Juggernaut, at such a late stage even, was a great move by them. This gives a much needed (my opinion) gameplay variation. A character that no longer relies on doing damage, but to withstand damage. Infiltrators can be improved I guess by tactical cloak providing more utility than mere damage, as most people seem to play this class. So I hope for more character roles along these lines. An engineer class geared more for repairing (like the Cerberus Engineers repair Atlases). The possibilities are probably varied.

Do the devs still have a lot to learn or do they got the right idea and just need some tweaking?

I wonder what the devs think on this matter as well

No, definitely not just tweaking. They will probably have to come up with more gameplay modes/options, for starters. Perhaps richer and more varied maps. The theme could be based on what ME4 as a universe could offer, of course.

And as I said before, I think this game could do with a PvP mode as well. PvP will keep this game alive a lot longer also, in my opinion.


not too critical but not overly sympathetic.

Great Post

#70
hostaman

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RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

I think people are confusing causes and effects here. Most of the time when the BSN ah "implodes" over a kit/weapon/character, it NEEDS a buff/nerf. So it is then buffed/nerfed, not because of the BSN, but because it actually needed it, people then point at the BSN, saying "Oh look, they called for "X", and "X" got "Y`ed", so its THIER fault." when in reality it had nothing to do with the BSN, and EVERYTHING to do with balance.


Hmm, evidence would point to the contrary on this. BSN didn't "implode" over the AIU, a few posters trolled others and got people to start talking about it in a very opposing manner. There was even a poll that suggested that most players didn't want the thing nerfed, but if you looked at the posts, it seemed to contradict that because the "nerf" threads were gettting more hits than the "stfu" threads.

On the otherside, you have certain heads whining about the inilftrator's cloak and reegar damage, but hardly anyone engages them, so it doesn't really become an issue.


BSN actually did implode over the AIU, I haven't seen so many threads regarding any one kit/weapon in such a short time ever, including the original krysae  ****storm. I honestly can`t recall a single time when the number of AIU threads on the first page alone was lower than 3. And the sheer amount of threads that got derailed by it are also worthy of note. And there`s some things that have essentially become set in stone, infiltrators cloak, and the reegar are at that point.

 In fact, this(set in stone mentality) actually kinda explains all the  "LOLWTF?" threads over the pahsedisrupter buff, And don`t tell me that the BSN had anything to do to that, It surprised everyone. Some of the other Balance changes are the same way, (I can`t remember specific number/changes, but There was a vindicator nerf at one pint correct?). Arguing that the BSN has a noticeable role in balance changes fits SOME of the facts, but it fails to cover them all, and like any other theory, it only takes 1 counter example to prove an argument invalid.


Really?

I've been watching BSN long enough to see the cause and effect:

Threads about....

Incisor being rubbish  ...... buffed
Eagle being Meh...... buffed
Valkyrie is terrible .....buffed   (still terrible though)
TGI is OP ....... Nerfed
Talon Merc is poor ....... Buffed
Pirhana is instant win ...... nerfed
Destroyer is noob cannon ..... Nerfed
AIU takes no skill ..... Nerfed

Every time!  It's not just coincidence.

#71
BjornDaDwarf

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For the majority of changes, I would say no. But I think there are some clear cases (including here), where people have made reasonable arguments, provided data and in-game examples to bolster their argument, and convinced Fagnan and Co., to at least take a look at an issue.

#72
Original Twigman

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BjornDaDwarf wrote...

For the majority of changes, I would say no. But I think there are some clear cases (including here), where people have made reasonable arguments, provided data and in-game examples to bolster their argument, and convinced Fagnan and Co., to at least take a look at an issue.


I agree. Some of these influences are great.

I am still puzzled at the AIU nerf as i don't recall anything other than anecdotal examples.

Same with the TGI stim pack nerf, which also seemed redundant as its still a great class and doesn't seem all that bothered with the nerf, but was still done.

#73
RoundedPlanet88

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Original Stikman wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

I think people are confusing causes and effects here. Most of the time when the BSN ah "implodes" over a kit/weapon/character, it NEEDS a buff/nerf. So it is then buffed/nerfed, not because of the BSN, but because it actually needed it, people then point at the BSN, saying "Oh look, they called for "X", and "X" got "Y`ed", so its THIER fault." when in reality it had nothing to do with the BSN, and EVERYTHING to do with balance.


Hmm, evidence would point to the contrary on this. BSN didn't "implode" over the AIU, a few posters trolled others and got people to start talking about it in a very opposing manner. There was even a poll that suggested that most players didn't want the thing nerfed, but if you looked at the posts, it seemed to contradict that because the "nerf" threads were gettting more hits than the "stfu" threads.

On the otherside, you have certain heads whining about the inilftrator's cloak and reegar damage, but hardly anyone engages them, so it doesn't really become an issue.


BSN actually did implode over the AIU, I haven't seen so many threads regarding any one kit/weapon in such a short time ever, including the original krysae  ****storm. I honestly can`t recall a single time when the number of AIU threads on the first page alone was lower than 3. And the sheer amount of threads that got derailed by it are also worthy of note. And there`s some things that have essentially become set in stone, infiltrators cloak, and the reegar are at that point.

 In fact, this(set in stone mentality) actually kinda explains all the  "LOLWTF?" threads over the pahsedisrupter buff, And don`t tell me that the BSN had anything to do to that, It surprised everyone. Some of the other Balance changes are the same way, (I can`t remember specific number/changes, but There was a vindicator nerf at one pint correct?). Arguing that the BSN has a noticeable role in balance changes fits SOME of the facts, but it fails to cover them all, and like any other theory, it only takes 1 counter example to prove an argument invalid.


You seem to think i said that BSN influences all balance changes...

i did not...


It only takes one counter example to ruin your argument entirely, there`s more than one.

I can see though that the majority of people would rather point fingers and sling accusations than get down and realize that Bioware actually does balance changes for balance, and according to their own system, not what some poppycock on the BSN claims. If said poppycock happens to have some idea, and claims something will get balanced, all the sudden, its his entire fault for the said thing to get balanced, even though his post may have never been read by the devs.

Your argument that the BSN influences balance changes just doesn't hold water when you look at it, I originally thought the same way, but I`ve seen to many examples that directly contradict it to believe it anymore.  And finally, why does everyone concentrate on the nerf side of balance? I rarely see people who make threads like this commenting on the buffs.

#74
TeamLexana

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Original Stikman wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

I can't decide if this is a good thing or bad thing myself. 


This is a pivotal part of my thinking as well... I wonder what can be done to minimize the bad. It seems apparent to me that the AIU nerf was an overreaction, and not needed considering it will have little impact on the kits performance, but still annoyingly hinders it


I don't think it was needed either. The major gripe is the revive, without a patch I don't see that mechanic being tweaked nor removed. Demanding nerfs to the duration, sheild boost, and DR just seems petty. Agreeing to such nerfs seems like a big WTF, esp since in reality such a nerf hurts everyone much more then it helps the game at all since AUI's will guzzle more grenades and will ensure no else will ever have a single grenade to their name again.

#75
TeamLexana

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Original Stikman wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

For the majority of changes, I would say no. But I think there are some clear cases (including here), where people have made reasonable arguments, provided data and in-game examples to bolster their argument, and convinced Fagnan and Co., to at least take a look at an issue.


I agree. Some of these influences are great.

I am still puzzled at the AIU nerf as i don't recall anything other than anecdotal examples.

Same with the TGI stim pack nerf, which also seemed redundant as its still a great class and doesn't seem all that bothered with the nerf, but was still done.


It didn't hurt the TGI but the Havok on the other hand....