340 réponses à ce sujet

[Shinnyshin]

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

Bad argument is bad. Of course not everyone was intended to get the UR unlocks. Yours would be a perfectly legitimate argument if the average time to max URs were about...200 hours. This is a system designed so that nobody can unlock all the URs. A few people have managed, but at colossal effort.

1000+ hours for even the top %s of the playerbase required to max manifests in a game like this is just out of line.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 12 mars 2013 - 10:19 .

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Okay, so we now have 21 Ultra-Rare weapons in the pool. To get a weapon maxed you have to unlock it ten times, so that's a total of 210 Ultra-Rares to unlock. The general consensus is that Ultra-Rare drop rates in PSPs (the other two 99K packs are only marginally higher) is about 10% (some say more, some say less). One in ten PSPs would round that out to about 2100 PSPs, give or take.

That may not seem like a whole lot on paper. But let me add something: to buy all of those packs one would have to spend 207,900,000 credits (again, give or take). Let's put this another way: to go from 0 Ultra-Rare unlocks to 210, someone would have to play 1386 Platinum matches with extraction. If a normal Platinum match takes about 25 minutes to complete, that's 34650 minutes of playtime, or 577 hours and 30 minutes of solid Platinum play. (You could pull the "speedrun" card, but not everyone knows how to do those.)

All I'm saying, is that the current drop rates are far too demanding. Please consider increasing the drop rate in the future.

yeah no........im done....i wish i have all the UR at X but im going to be realistic here and i think its time to wind down my me3 play time now....it was a blast of a run tho

[holdenagincourt]

jfruelas521 wrote...

The problem is that if you increase drop rates, you marginalize the players that achieved the max manifest with the lower rates. And the last thing you want to do is alienate the hardcore player base.

No one I know with a maxed manifest would give a fig about whether other players are able to max their manifests now under less punitive drop rates. It doesn't affect them in any way.

Well, other than positively, because their friends would get the chance to use everything in the game, and would be having more fun because they would actually be rewarded for their hours of play with something other than level IV ammo.

[KalilKareem]

DullahansXMark wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

WaterWar wrote...

The drop rate is supposed to be as it is.. otherwise it wouldn't be ULTRA-RARE unlocks

At launch we had 8 URs to unlock. That's 80 unlocks in all. Assuming that never changed, that's 79,200,000 credits, or 528 Platinum games. At 25 minutes a game, that's 13,200 minutes, or 220 hours of solid Platinum play.

Still a bit on the absurd side, but actually manageable.

Platinum didnt exist then. And without proper understanding of the game and no access to gear etc a gold game was often closer to 45 than 25 minutes.....

DullahansXMark wrote...

At launch we had 8 URs to unlock. Assuming that never changed

Reading comprehension.

So, are you trying to say that your post was meaningless? Because it didnt take 220 hours of platinum, because youknow platinum didn't exist.

[BlackDahlia424]

KalilKareem wrote...
Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

The only explanation for people that don't want UR drops buffed is that you hate fun. Or people being happpy.

[cronshaw]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Okay, so we now have 21 Ultra-Rare weapons in the pool. To get a weapon maxed you have to unlock it ten times, so that's a total of 210 Ultra-Rares to unlock. The general consensus is that Ultra-Rare drop rates in PSPs (the other two 99K packs are only marginally higher) is about 10% (some say more, some say less). One in ten PSPs would round that out to about 2100 PSPs, give or take.

That may not seem like a whole lot on paper. But let me add something: to buy all of those packs one would have to spend 207,900,000 credits (again, give or take). Let's put this another way: to go from 0 Ultra-Rare unlocks to 210, someone would have to play 1386 Platinum matches with extraction. If a normal Platinum match takes about 25 minutes to complete, that's 34650 minutes of playtime, or 577 hours and 30 minutes of solid Platinum play. (You could pull the "speedrun" card, but not everyone knows how to do those.)

All I'm saying, is that the current drop rates are far too demanding. Please consider increasing the drop rate in the future.

yeah it is ridiculous
I was close to maxing my manifest before the new DLC
now I have 59 UR unlocks left 46 of those unlocks were created in the last week
kind of a kick in the balls

[KalilKareem]

Shinnyshin wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

Bad argument is bad. Of course not everyone was intended to get the UR unlocks. Yours would be a perfectly legitimate argument if the average time to max URs were about...200 hours. This is a system designed so that nobody can unlock all the URs. A few people have managed, but at colossal effort.

1000+ hours for even the top %s of the playerbase required to max manifests in a game like this is just out of line.

You did not refute my argument in any way. Calling it bad does not make it so.

[KalilKareem]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...
Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

The only explanation for people that don't want UR drops buffed is that you hate fun. Or people being happpy.

If it makes you happy you can always photoshop an image of a maxed manifest and hang it on the wall?

[paranoio]

KalilKareem wrote...

paranoio wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

paranoio wrote...

Bwahahha.. World of warcraft go home and roll over... These guys knows how to fight for your gear xD

No. Just no. WoW isn't a particularily grindy game, but 577 hours is just 24 days. Most WoW-players will have spent easily 10 times that on the game. And I think it is very unlikely that any WoW-gamer has aquired every item in the game

Total i have spent more time on WoW than i have done on this game (over a year, counting most of them, and dont play it anymore) and it still possible to get full epic gear in less than 2 weeks... as it is i see epic gear, rated as ultra rare weapons, and N7 weapons as legendaries... Still... I like to farm for it... I just wish i had a certain droprate guarantee xD

I think the beauty of this game is that you dont have to farm. You can do perfectly well on the highest difficulty with only rares (in fact the games arguably most powerful weapons are rare). If you wish to grind, feel free, I prefer not to

You are right in so many ways... My arguments are invalid as it is right now... See you on the battlefield N7! Still would be nice to have a better "droprate" 

[DullahansXMark]

KalilKareem wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

WaterWar wrote...

The drop rate is supposed to be as it is.. otherwise it wouldn't be ULTRA-RARE unlocks

At launch we had 8 URs to unlock. That's 80 unlocks in all. Assuming that never changed, that's 79,200,000 credits, or 528 Platinum games. At 25 minutes a game, that's 13,200 minutes, or 220 hours of solid Platinum play.

Still a bit on the absurd side, but actually manageable.

Platinum didnt exist then. And without proper understanding of the game and no access to gear etc a gold game was often closer to 45 than 25 minutes.....

DullahansXMark wrote...

At launch we had 8 URs to unlock. Assuming that never changed

Reading comprehension.

So, are you trying to say that your post was meaningless? Because it didnt take 220 hours of platinum, because youknow platinum didn't exist.

*sigh*

No, I was saying that if the number of URs remained the same, but the game still continued to progress, someone would've actually had a feasible chance of maxing their manifest once Platinum finally hit (which was only about four months after release), assuming they didn't already have a good chance of it.

800 hours of playtime (counting the time someone WOULDN'T be playing Platinum) to do something like this is absurd. 300 hours? That's a little more fair. It keeps the less dedicated from getting that coveted maxed manifest while making it so that more than 1% of the playerbase can actually achieve the ultimate achievement.

Even Platinum Games says that 2% (which is higher than 1%) of players should be able to unlock all of a given game's achievements (you know, those things that pop up when you buy 50 apples). And those types of achievements are meaningless.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 12 mars 2013 - 10:26 .

[KalilKareem]

paranoio wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

paranoio wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

paranoio wrote...

Bwahahha.. World of warcraft go home and roll over... These guys knows how to fight for your gear xD

No. Just no. WoW isn't a particularily grindy game, but 577 hours is just 24 days. Most WoW-players will have spent easily 10 times that on the game. And I think it is very unlikely that any WoW-gamer has aquired every item in the game

Total i have spent more time on WoW than i have done on this game (over a year, counting most of them, and dont play it anymore) and it still possible to get full epic gear in less than 2 weeks... as it is i see epic gear, rated as ultra rare weapons, and N7 weapons as legendaries... Still... I like to farm for it... I just wish i had a certain droprate guarantee xD

I think the beauty of this game is that you dont have to farm. You can do perfectly well on the highest difficulty with only rares (in fact the games arguably most powerful weapons are rare). If you wish to grind, feel free, I prefer not to

You are right in so many ways... My arguments are invalid as it is right now... See you on the battlefield N7! Still would be nice to have a better "droprate" 

/salute

On to death we charge!

[mybudgee]

The term "brutal math" is redundant

[Gunboat Diplomat]

jfruelas521 wrote...

The problem is that if you increase drop rates, you marginalize the players that achieved the max manifest with the lower rates. And the last thing you want to do is alienate the hardcore player base.

I don't have hard data on this, but I'm willing to bet that they are a small minority. So what is worst, alienating them or the majority of more casual players? 

[VII Revenant]

JediHarbinger wrote...

Enough is enough,, I'm lucky to have a maxed manifest including the promos..

Now is the time to give the people who don't have enough URs a better chance of getting them.

This one. He gets it.

[Lars10178]

Time to start platinum matches every second of my life

[JediHarbinger]

Hehehe

*Stands proud and tall*

Modifié par JediHarbinger, 12 mars 2013 - 10:27 .

[Kogia]

The additional problem is that it's random, so some people will have the average of 10% drop rate, but others might go lower, with others higher, it's not even a guaranteed 10% drop rate for each person.

I've just broken a spell of 3 months without a single UR and I didn't break that with a windfall of happy URs, I got 2 in 10 packs..

[CmnDwnWrkn]

This wouldn't even be a problem if all the Ultra-Rares were actually worth obtaining. I look at some of the Ultra-Rares I still have to max like the Valkyrie and the BPP, and I'm really not all that motivated to earn the credits needed for these weapons. Plus, they make it less likely that I'll get the good ones. They really screwed up with all the mediocre Ultra-Rares that have been added to the pool in the past couple of weeks.

[Dratron]

I would like to see an increase in the drop rate, while I'm unsure of what exactly the % chance is right now, I know I don't seem to get many, and I would like to at least have one of each weapon, just to try them all.
If an increase in drop % is out of the question, I'd be quite happy with the UR pack that has been discussed to death, just having the consistency of getting a shiny black card on a regular basis would be nice, even if in theory it would take just as long to get them all.

[Shinnyshin]

KalilKareem wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

Bad argument is bad. Of course not everyone was intended to get the UR unlocks. Yours would be a perfectly legitimate argument if the average time to max URs were about...200 hours. This is a system designed so that nobody can unlock all the URs. A few people have managed, but at colossal effort.

1000+ hours for even the top %s of the playerbase required to max manifests in a game like this is just out of line.

You did not refute my argument in any way. Calling it bad does not make it so.

Actually, if you were to read a bit more carefully, you'll notice I addressed the problems with your construction.

Your point was that the designers didn't intend for everyone to be able to unlock every aspect of the game.  And it's totally reasonable that your hardest-to-obtain weapons be out of reach of the average casual player.  IIRC most people in this game are Silver players.  Unfortunately, this restriction isn't prohibitive to just your regular old players.  It's prohibitive to even hardcore players.  Extremely hardcore.  This isn't a matter of maxed manifests not being achievable by your average player.  This is a matter of maxed manifests being off limits to the top .5% of the playerbase even optimistically.  The "it should take some work to reach it" argument falls apart when you realize that "some work" is 1000+ hours.

My calling your argument bad didn't make your argument bad.  Your argument being horrendous made it bad.

[cronshaw]

KalilKareem wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

Bad argument is bad. Of course not everyone was intended to get the UR unlocks. Yours would be a perfectly legitimate argument if the average time to max URs were about...200 hours. This is a system designed so that nobody can unlock all the URs. A few people have managed, but at colossal effort.

1000+ hours for even the top %s of the playerbase required to max manifests in a game like this is just out of line.

You did not refute my argument in any way. Calling it bad does not make it so.

Your argument is bad because the OP isn't saying everyone should be able to have a maxed manifest
he made no satement regarding who should have a maxed manifest and who shouldn't
you are creating an argument that wasn't made
so your comment/question is irrelevant
what the OP did say was that the amount of time/effort required to max your manifest at this point is absurd
and it is

[holdenagincourt]

bjiogyof icyr wrote...

jfruelas521 wrote...

The problem is that if you increase drop rates, you marginalize the players that achieved the max manifest with the lower rates. And the last thing you want to do is alienate the hardcore player base.

I don't have hard data on this, but I'm willing to bet that they are a small minority. So what is worst, alienating them or the majority of more casual players? 

You err in accepting the premise.

The fact is that the store structure is the way it is because of microtransaction profits. Dragging players into it by asserting that somehow those with maxed manifests will collectively object to a change that affects them not at all is, to mix metaphors, both a fig leaf and a red herring.

Now I'm weirdly hungry.

[KalilKareem]

DullahansXMark wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

WaterWar wrote...

The drop rate is supposed to be as it is.. otherwise it wouldn't be ULTRA-RARE unlocks

At launch we had 8 URs to unlock. That's 80 unlocks in all. Assuming that never changed, that's 79,200,000 credits, or 528 Platinum games. At 25 minutes a game, that's 13,200 minutes, or 220 hours of solid Platinum play.

Still a bit on the absurd side, but actually manageable.

Platinum didnt exist then. And without proper understanding of the game and no access to gear etc a gold game was often closer to 45 than 25 minutes.....

DullahansXMark wrote...

At launch we had 8 URs to unlock. Assuming that never changed

Reading comprehension.

So, are you trying to say that your post was meaningless? Because it didnt take 220 hours of platinum, because youknow platinum didn't exist.

*sigh*

No, I was saying that if the number of URs remained the same, but the game still continued to progress, someone would've actually had a feasible chance of maxing their manifest once Platinum finally hit (which was only about four months after release), assuming they didn't already have a good chance of it.

800 hours of playtime (counting the time someone WOULDN'T be playing Platinum) to do something like this is absurd. 300 hours? That's a little more fair. It keeps the less dedicated from getting that coveted maxed manifest while making it so that more than 1% of the playerbase can actually achieve the ultimate achievement.

Even Platinum Games says that 2% (which is higher than 1%) of players should be able to unlock all of a given game's achievements (you know, those things that pop up when you buy 50 apples). And those types of achievements are meaningless.

The "ultimate achivement" wouldn't be so ultimate of 75% of the player base achived it now would it? More "lone wolf" style ultimate? Besides, you don't NEED to max your manifest. Many UR's are quite crappy, and tbh you can use weapons below level X just fine even on platinum difficulty.

Look, I am not claiming that 1000+ hours is a reasonable time to put into a freebie minigame (as ME3MP was at least initially intended). I am just questioning the underlying assumption that Bioware are somehow "asking" or "requiring" us to do this. They are not. If you enjoy the grind, DO IT. If you do not like the grind (like me) DON'T DO IT.

[Saints]

I was done before the new DLC now.... at least all promos and reckoning DlC UR are above IV

[Chardonney]

VII Revenant wrote...

JediHarbinger wrote...

Enough is enough,, I'm lucky to have a maxed manifest including the promos..

Now is the time to give the people who don't have enough URs a better chance of getting them.

This one. He gets it.

Agreed.