340 réponses à ce sujet

[palmof40sorrows]

InArts wrote...

Not counting UR character cards, because we love those, too.

I'm sure by now this has been pointed out but the UR characters do NOT replace an UR weapon slot.

[KalilKareem]

modok8 wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

Bad argument is bad. Of course not everyone was intended to get the UR unlocks. Yours would be a perfectly legitimate argument if the average time to max URs were about...200 hours. This is a system designed so that nobody can unlock all the URs. A few people have managed, but at colossal effort.

1000+ hours for even the top %s of the playerbase required to max manifests in a game like this is just out of line.

You did not refute my argument in any way. Calling it bad does not make it so.

Your argument is bad because the OP isn't saying everyone should be able to have a maxed manifest
he made no satement regarding who should have a maxed manifest and who shouldn't
you are creating an argument that wasn't made
so your comment/question is irrelevant
what the OP did say was that the amount of time/effort required to max your manifest at this point is absurd
and it is

It is true. But irrelevant. You do not need to max your manifest. And I would not want to take away the long term grind for those of us that have ample time on their hands and wants to put in a proper grind. In fact I think the long haulers working on their manifests are important for keeping the game alive.

[shnig_1]

0_0

Increase drop rate plz, all I got maxed is the javelin

[Gunboat Diplomat]

holdenagincourt wrote...

bjiogyof icyr wrote..

jfruelas521 wrote...
The problem is that if you increase drop rates, you marginalize the players that achieved the max manifest with the lower rates. And the last thing you want to do is alienate the hardcore player base.

I don't have hard data on this, but I'm willing to bet that they are a small minority. So what is worst, alienating them or the majority of more casual players? 

You err in accepting the premise.
The fact is that the store structure is the way it is because of microtransaction profits. Dragging players into it by asserting that somehow those with maxed manifests will collectively object to a change that affects them not at all is, to mix metaphors, both a fig leaf and a red herring.
Now I'm weirdly hungry.

True, I was merely pointing out that even if the premise were true, it would not really matter. Before Reckoning I had a maxed manifest, and I would have been more than ok with an ur drop rate buff for other players. And I'm kinda hungry too.
Edit: and omg this thread made me take a look at my manifest. Two weeks it was maxed save for the promotionals, and now I need 28 more ir?! Bioware do something about the ur drop rate!

Modifié par bjiogyof icyr, 12 mars 2013 - 10:42 .

[CobraJet97]

jfruelas521 wrote...

The problem is that if you increase drop rates, you marginalize the players that achieved the max manifest with the lower rates. And the last thing you want to do is alienate the hardcore player base.

Anyone that would be alienated by new players getting access to better equipment faster is kind of sad. I bet if anyone would appreciate what a pain in the arse it is to get those guns to those levels, it's the hardcore player base. 

[KalilKareem]

Shinnyshin wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

Bad argument is bad. Of course not everyone was intended to get the UR unlocks. Yours would be a perfectly legitimate argument if the average time to max URs were about...200 hours. This is a system designed so that nobody can unlock all the URs. A few people have managed, but at colossal effort.

1000+ hours for even the top %s of the playerbase required to max manifests in a game like this is just out of line.

You did not refute my argument in any way. Calling it bad does not make it so.

Actually, if you were to read a bit more carefully, you'll notice I addressed the problems with your construction.

Your point was that the designers didn't intend for everyone to be able to unlock every aspect of the game.  And it's totally reasonable that your hardest-to-obtain weapons be out of reach of the average casual player.  IIRC most people in this game are Silver players.  Unfortunately, this restriction isn't prohibitive to just your regular old players.  It's prohibitive to even hardcore players.  Extremely hardcore.  This isn't a matter of maxed manifests not being achievable by your average player.  This is a matter of maxed manifests being off limits to the top .5% of the playerbase even optimistically.  The "it should take some work to reach it" argument falls apart when you realize that "some work" is 1000+ hours.

My calling your argument bad didn't make your argument bad.  Your argument being horrendous made it bad.

Now you are making up an argument and claiming it is mine. Thats not very polite of you. My point is not that "it should take some effort", my point is that "it is completely optional". Don't wanna put in 1000+ hours? Fine. Don't do it. And stop pretending that Bioware is forcing you, cuzz they aint

[DullahansXMark]

KalilKareem wrote...

The "ultimate achivement" wouldn't be so ultimate of 75% of the player base achived it now would it? More "lone wolf" style ultimate? Besides, you don't NEED to max your manifest. Many UR's are quite crappy, and tbh you can use weapons below level X just fine even on platinum difficulty.

Look, I am not claiming that 1000+ hours is a reasonable time to put into a freebie minigame (as ME3MP was at least initially intended). I am just questioning the underlying assumption that Bioware are somehow "asking" or "requiring" us to do this. They are not. If you enjoy the grind, DO IT. If you do not like the grind (like me) DON'T DO IT.

Why are you assuming I think so? I don't. I think that everyone who can actually competently play Platinum (i.e. the players who are more than casual) should have at least a chance at maxing. Not a guarantee. Just a chance. That's it.

I'd be just fine with the UR drop rates if I could ever actually just get one of everything. I'm still completely missing the Lancer, Spitfire and Venom. Even if the Spitfire is crap I'd still like to at least attain one. One.

I'm sure Neferius and others like us feel the same.

[Miniditka77]

RainbowDazed wrote...

I might get much hate for this but I don't see what the problem is. I think it just makes things more interesting if the URs are actually kinda ultra rare. Not everyone should have every UR maxed out.

The problem isn't the drop rate, it's the fact that 21 weapons are Ultra Rares.  I understand wanting to put new weapons in the Rare or UR category, because otherwise they will be too easy to obtain, and people won't spend actual $$ to help in obtaining them.  But if that's your stragegy, then throw us a bone and move some of the older weapons and characters down a peg.  There's no reason I should STILL be pulling an Asari Adept Gold card in a PSP 12 months after release.  I've probably spent about 2 million in-game credits and $20 in real money since the last DLC, and I have only unlocked ONE new character (EDIT: other than the one that was given to me free).

Modifié par Miniditka77, 12 mars 2013 - 10:45 .

[BjornDaDwarf]

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

How about for everyone to at least unlock every gun?  That's something that a lot of people have expressed frustration with.  Do you think the designers thought, "Hmm, I've made this awesome gun, and NOOOOWWWWW...I'm going to hide it behind an RNG store so that 30 percent of all players never get to experience it!  Muhahahahahaha!"

Because really, MP designers love making guns, powers and characters that people will never be able to play.

[Commander_Rafael]

Has anyone pointed out that actually most of the player base actually plays BRONZE and Silver? These guys may have their 800hours and get a dozen of URs.

My gf just bought a computer and will begin her ME3 manifest. Damn, I played a match on Lodestar with her account so when she starts there would be at least a promotional wepaon (at least she got the hurricane twice) and I, after having all this experience with the MP had a harder time playing SILVER with her account than doing the 4 extraction on platinum for the operation because not only an unnequiped player can't handle harder games but their PUG players are also at the same level (yes, the N7 macthmaking is not completely gone, I've verified it for myself as only sub-100 N7 ranking appeared on the lobby while mine usually gets +1000)

[holdenagincourt]

The problem with the exclusivity argument being made by...well, just one person in this thread is that the exclusivity isn't even based on things within player control. If it were based on player skill and had some sort of reliable (but challenging) method of progression, I could see the logic. Like 100 Platinum waves on each map would give you a random UR unlock each time. Or completing a challenge (out of the 25 included in Best of the Best/Mass Effect) would give you a UR unlock.

Not to mention that the fact of platform-exclusive manifests makes the "play a lot" argument even weaker. I've played this game for 800 hours and am nowhere near a maxed manifest, because I play on two platforms. My friends who've only played on one or the other with equivalent playing time are generally maxed or very nearly so.

[landylan]

Your math's wrong...

You forgot to add the ten minutes you wait for people to ready up in the lobby and time wasted from disconnects.

[HLP46]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Keep in mind this is purely theoretical, most people start with basic weapons at 1 and quite possibly CAN`T play platinum, or even gold. They will have much harder time. In the end, I`d argue that's a MINIMUM time, not even an average.

Well, no. A minimum would need to include the possibility of being lucky. I maxed everything (well, aside from the N7-weapons, i've yet have to play today) with 450h, which is far less.

However, anything above 100-200h is not acceptable in my eyes. This should be the limit to what you need to max everything, at some point you shouldn't be hindered to use game content by keeping weapons, equipment and chars away from you. Having to unlock stuff first by money, char level or achievements, so you haven't everything at the beginning but getting more of it with time is fine of course, but the timeframe needed should be reasonable. 400h if you are lucky, 1500 hours if you get screwed is not reasonable, it is a F... YOU to the players.

[holdenagincourt]

landylan wrote...

Your math's wrong...

You forgot to add the ten minutes you wait for people to ready up in the lobby and time wasted from disconnects.

+ time spent checking DLC four times in a row

+ time spent joining games

+ time spent loading the store to buy a single JEP before a match

[snackrat]

holdenagincourt wrote...

bjiogyof icyr wrote...

jfruelas521 wrote...

The problem is that if you increase drop rates, you marginalize the players that achieved the max manifest with the lower rates. And the last thing you want to do is alienate the hardcore player base.

I don't have hard data on this, but I'm willing to bet that they are a small minority. So what is worst, alienating them or the majority of more casual players? 

You err in accepting the premise.

The fact is that the store structure is the way it is because of microtransaction profits. Dragging players into it by asserting that somehow those with maxed manifests will collectively object to a change that affects them not at all is, to mix metaphors, both a fig leaf and a red herring.

Now I'm weirdly hungry.

Completed manifest or not, players get VERY butthurt. Yes, I accept change in droprates.

But using WoW as an example - most of the older players (or at least some VERY VOCAL ones) saturate the forums for how ANGRY they are that players can level up so quickly. Why? Their characters are at cap already, surely, or they wouldn't really be old players. What, they're levelling alts? Shouldn't they be GLAD then, that they're not eeking their way out to the cap slowly, repeating old content that has nothing new for them?

Oh... wait... all these posts are complaining about the NOOB-SCRUBS levelling quickly. They didn't EARN IT. It is SO EASY for them it DOESN'T COUNT.

I definately support better drop rates, these numbers are scary. In fact, I'm putting off other games to try and get some more progress in, now. But don't underestimate the playerbase. Yes, I'll grant, even with the Ending-drama in the story section BSN is FAR more mature than Blizzard's forums. But DO NOT think that everyone who plays the game is mature enough to make that distinction.

Humans are, ultimately, prideful. That's why they compete score in a co-op. That's why they brag about manifest to people they don't play with. That's why they pass off characters as bad that they don't personally know how to play. You ruin their 'sense of accomplishment', and those people CAN and WILL come down on you.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 12 mars 2013 - 10:56 .

[Parallax Demon]

The way I see it; BW added 40 (Reckoning DLC) + 14 (Promo's I still miss after completing all operations) = 54 UR's to the UR pool in two weeks time.

Seems like BW doesn't you to play with the guns they created.

Modifié par Parallax Demon, 12 mars 2013 - 10:59 .

[JPN17]

rlucht wrote...

Eh having a max manifest is overrated anyway, part of the fun is having things to unlock. I don't personally mind as for me it will keep that part of the excitement in the game for longer.

I don't care about having a maxed manifest. But I would like to be able to use every gun in the game. I started playing in November and it took me a little over 3 months to unlock all 12 of the original URs, the Paladin being the last. Then the new DLC drops and there's 4 new URs. I banked some creds and got two of the new ones. Great, but I'd still like to use the BPP or the Lancer. Looking at the math I have a 12.5% chance to unlock either one when a UR drops. Not great odds, but OK I'll deal with it. But now it's a less than 10% chance because of 5 guns that I frankly don't really want nor are most worthy of UR status. I mean the N7 eagle a UR? Really? I would much rather get a Lancer 1 or a BPP 1 over a Valkyrie 7. But now I have to contend with those 5 guns as well as 14 others. I don't think it's too much to ask that after playing this game for 4 months I can use every gun in the game. Even just at level 1. But apparently bioware thinks it is.

Modifié par JPN17, 12 mars 2013 - 11:00 .

[palmof40sorrows]

I feel super lucky that I maxed out my Eagle through weekend ops. Ha ha! Now I won't get them in packs. Ohwaitvalkyrie. Wah wahhhhh. Lol.

[holdenagincourt]

Karsciyin wrote...

Completed manifest or not, players get VERY butthurt. Yes, I accept change in droprates.

But using WoW as an example - most of the older players (or at least some VERY VOCAL ones) saturate the forums for how ANGRY they are that players can level up so quickly. Why? Their characters are at cap already, surely, or they wouldn't really be old players. What, they're levelling alts? Shouldn't they be GLAD then, that they're not eeking their way out to the cap slowly, repeating old content that has nothing new for them?

Oh... wait... all these posts are complaining about the NOOB-SCRUBS levelling quickly. They didn't EARN IT. It is SO EASY for them it DOESN'T COUNT.

I definately support better drop rates, these numbers are scary. In fact, I'm putting off other games to try and get some more progress in, now. But don't underestimate the playerbase. Yes, I'll grant, even with the Ending-drama in the story section BSN is FAR more mature than Blizzard's forums. But DO NOT think that everyone who plays the game is mature enough to make that distinction.

Humans are, ultimately, prideful. That's why they compete score in a co-op. That's why they brag about manifest to people they don't play with. That's why they pass off characters as bad that they don't personally know how to play. You ruin their 'sense of accomplishment', and those people CAN and WILL come down on you.

I don't know Kars, BioWare has done a lot of things over the last year in ME3 MP that have alienated a lot of people.

I think this would be one of the less controversial and more popular changes, especially given that the vast majority of the population would directly benefit and the "maxed" population would be split between the ones who would approve of the change and the ones who would be bitter about it (my suspicion is they would be a minority even of the maxed subpopulation).

The profit motive is always going to be the main obstacle though, and what the player population thinks as an aggregate is in any case less important than the store's economic logic.

[baltoid]

X-Frame wrote...

And this is precisely why I'm likely to slow down how much I play and soon after stop entirely because I have little interest in playing another 100% of my time to max it all. I've been playing since launch day.

Same feeling here, although I haven't been playing since launch day.  The pool of URs is too large and the drops too rare for me to have any hope of leveling anything else up to X (I got extremely lucky with the Talon).  

It just isn't as appealing to play without a chance of decent progression. 

Modifié par baltoid, 12 mars 2013 - 11:06 .

[ManRightChea]

Procloa wrote...

After today's balance changes I'm quitting ME3.  I'm not complaining but it's too much of a time sink for a year old game.  I've been playing on and off since launch just trying to have fun but eventually the game got a little dull.  I then decided to try to max my manifest to keep the game alive but they just keep adding URs to the pool.  I have no interest in ME3 now.  It's a great game but there really isn't much to it other than mindlessly grinding credits to try and get something with a low drop rate.  The only way this game will interest me again is if they up the odds for URs or add an UR pack.  That way I'll have a reason to play again without being dead bored.  It's even worse for new players having so much to unlock.

I agree for the most part. I have played this game for quite some time, but I too think it is time to hang 'em up. The promotionals entering the drop pool is something I have feared since I knew about ME3 beginning to wind down. There are too many for me to be interested in maxing them.  I may still play the game here and there but my days of dedicated play are over.

[GoWest89]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Did it ever occur to you that the game designers may not have intended for everyone to unlock every weapon to level X?

How about for everyone to at least unlock every gun?  That's something that a lot of people have expressed frustration with.  Do you think the designers thought, "Hmm, I've made this awesome gun, and NOOOOWWWWW...I'm going to hide it behind an RNG store so that 30 percent of all players never get to experience it!  Muhahahahahaha!"

Because really, MP designers love making guns, powers and characters that people will never be able to play.

One would think that isn't the case...and yet, in practice...

[SectiplaveB4]

For completionists like myself, the time investment at this stage for a maxed manifest is just not feasible. Without having a reliable way to obtain Ultra-rares the task is simply too daunting to consider with the massively increase UR pool.

I agree with this thread, throw a UR pack into the store, it'll boost microtrans sales I'm sure as well as making the completionist hounds happy that they have a reliable and viable method and path toward maxing it all.

[ISHYGDDT]

More or less what I expected, tbh.

[ISHYGDDT]

duple posten

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 12 mars 2013 - 11:49 .