638 réponses à ce sujet

[Sojiro888]

If you have Rare Weapons left to unlock, buy Premium Spectre Packs.

This way, you'll unlock one two Rare Weapon/Character with sometimes Respec cards or even Rare Weapon Mod or Perm. Equipment.

Premium Spectre Pack is the secret to enjoy this game. They can give you 2 URs in a row sometimes.

FTFY

Modifié par Sojiro888, 13 mars 2013 - 07:14 .

[Blown5pnt4]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Blown5pnt4 wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Nah, the store should give you more UR if you only have that to unlock. I have 251 level IV consumables... and 79 UR to unlock... That's a lot of money for lvl IV consumables.

I have 458 in just level 4 ammo....

After just looking with the new weapons and promotionals i also now have 79 URs to unlock...FML...lol

**** man, I feel your pain 

Tell me about it....I dont think asking the drop rate be increased to say 25%-33% would be bad. 1 in 3 or 4 is a lot better than 1 in 10. 

[Sojiro888]

I did not see any post by a Bioware person on this thread that said that UR-focused packs would be a bad idea. Actually, their arguments all pointed toward the fact that they'd need/deserve to be  cheaper than what the BSNers are asking for.

I find that interesting

[JosLouis70]

Sojiro888 wrote...

If you have Rare Weapons left to unlock, buy Premium Spectre Packs.

This way, you'll unlock one two Rare Weapon/Character with sometimes Respec cards or even Rare Weapon Mod or Perm. Equipment.

Premium Spectre Pack is the secret to enjoy this game. They can give you 2 URs in a row sometimes.

FTFY

You're wrong, PSP will can be deceiving by giving you only 1 Rare Weapon and 1 Ammo IV, sometimes 2 Ammo IV.

Spectre Pack is the way.

Make a new account and try it.

Or link me your Multiplayer N7HQ, let me see those stats.

Perhaps your trolling creativity is at work today, and you feel like counter-arguing everything in your sight today.

2 Silver Match -> 1 Spectre Pack + 1 Recruit Pack

1 Gold Match -> 1 Spectre Pack + 1 Veteran Pack

PSP is not an option for a casual, new player, that can't play with the last year pro community KroReeGuards and GI Pirhana squads.

[Commander Coriander Salamander]

Not sure if either of these were adressed but I wanted to respond to some of the points BroJo brought up.

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Alright I feel like jumping into
this debate, this will only focus around the point of "Why Muliplayer
will die without the Ultra Rare Pack"

It seems the OP is speaking from a perspective of a new player or a casual player.

So
regardless of whether there is a UR pack that costs 500k a new player
or a casual player will never buy this. We would be talking 1-2 weapons
vs having 10 weapons/characters/gear.

I think the players who wold benefit most from this sort of pack are the players who are invested enough in the game to have continued playing after a year and already have most of the other content unlocked but simply are not able to treat the game like a second job and make a reasonable progression of unlocking new content. If someone can only play about 1-2 platinum matches a day (which to me seems like a reasonable ammount of play, but I suppose that depends on perspective) then that averages to about 1.8 URs a week (using the 10% drop rate) and thats being unrealistically generous as it assumes you're only playing platinum, don't spend anything on consumables, never get disconnected and always extract. So if you play follows this pattern you are barely able to unlock any new content. It's this sort of player that I believe has the most to gain from an UR pack.

Bryan Johnson wrote...

This is going to sound slightly
cruel but let me postulate something to you under your model the cost of
a UR is 333k. Lets say I go with the 10% drop rate in PSP (which I
believe people have at least somewhat agreed is the low rate) that makes
them worth 1million.

This means you would have 3 times the UR
you currently have, and 0 of the rare gear/weapons/characters you
currently have (discounting the Promo weapons since you had them before)
you would have 9 UR levels instead of 3. That still does not give you a
full taste of things that are out there. So even if you did save up, it
wouldnt be much value imo.

The point I'm getting from this is that you don't intend the average player* to be unlocking a a lot of UR weapons and instead promote unlocking a variation of items available correct?

If that's the case then why doesn't the content added to the game reflect this? We've seen 9 URs added to the pool within the last few weeks, 3 rares in the last DLC and zero commons or uncommons over the entire lifecycle of the game. If you don't expect the average player* to unlock lots of UR weapons then why did you just add a ton of UR weapons to the game?

*note: The term "average player" was made assuming you referring to this theoretical "average player" in your above post.

[KaiserKevin]

Your math is wrong, I was at ~700 hours played before reckoning and had every ultra rare maxed.

[-Sxx-]

Wel if a UR pack isn't going to be released, maybe upping the chance of getting one in the PSP might be more preferable and satisfy both sides.

Aside from that, this game isn't and shouldn't solely be about hoarding URs. Makes it less of a co-op shooter game and more of a... Gambling 'game'.

[Foxtrot813]

Why not just implement a 'rule' like they did with the character cards. If you max all your Rares (that's guns, characters, gear and the equipment capacity cards) you are guaranteed an Ultra Rare per PSP until you have at least one rank in all of them. Meaning, you would get all the UR weapons you're missing, and once you have at least one of each, then you'll start getting a random mixture of UR upgrades and level IV ammos. This way, people who invest will have a definite edge over someone who just started, while maintaining the game's incentive and progression. You'd never experience that nagging lameness of missing out on a gun you really want, even after playing your heart out, but there would still be a reason to come back. You can just relax, have fun, and watch that gun get better and better.

[TommyNg]

To a new player , character is much much more important than the weapon , some characters dont even need weapon to top the score

[Moirai]

Not sure if this has been mention earlier (I ran out of puff after reading through 7-8 pages), but now that promotional weapons are grouped with URs, how about just including any UR in future Commendation packs.

Given that the re-categorisation has only just occurred, that may be the plan anyway. Don't know. But that would at least give us a guaranteed UR pack, while not adding yet another purchasable pack. Plus it encourages more players to get involved in the challenges.

[mrcanada]

TommyNg wrote...

To a new player , character is much much more important than the weapon , some characters dont even need weapon to top the score

This is the sound of the entire thread flying supersonic speeds over your head.

[Charaxan]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

032OffensiveBias wrote...

I'd still rather pay 1m for a guaranteed UR than extend a 2 month, 8million credit no-ur dry streak of PSPs, APs, and RPs.

Is this something you have experienced or are you going based on what you have heard?

I think the debate should go like this (note the "I think" and the "should", please)

- does the possibility of winning the UR must be STRICTLY random (in that case, change nothing, or maybe change the rate if the rate is bad, and considering time is counted, now...)
- or does the possibiliity of winning the UR CAN be systematic, providing the good amount of credits ?

BOTH possibilities are "ultra rares", but one can be very frustrating (random CAN actually give you winning streaks... or loosing streaks...) and the other can banalize a little.

One thing is sure though : time is counted. And having a full manifest NEED time. The team could at least consider that in the equation. 

Everybody doesn't want to farm or speed-run platinum to get credits. This is a game, this is supposed to be fun and this is supposed to be optimized WHILE having fun, not while optimizing the rentability using a "clever use of game mecanic". When I go to the ring, I want dirty fight, I want cornered/flanked team-mate, I want to save them/be saved from that, I want adventure, I want adrenaline. I don't want systematic wait/missile/wait/missile/mission-hack-circle-at-wave-3-so-this-is-no-rentable-so-we-all-die-to-restart-or-host-quit-and-come-back.

I want a game, I don't want a toy, if you know the difference. I respect (and envy...) those who prefer speedrunning for max out manifest, but this is not the way this SHOULD be done. This is should not be the ONLY way.

Because let's talk numbers : watch my manifest... I played 580hours. That's enormous. I played 2006 games. That's enormous too. and I have yet only ONE UR maxed. I played gold a lot, untill platinum came out, I played some platinum, and then played gold again just "for fun". 

Fun is it's own reward, but come on... This is a game, please allow at least regular players to achieve something here.

Thanks for reading all of us. 

Modifié par Charaxan, 13 mars 2013 - 08:03 .

[VII Revenant]

The casino system is crap for endgame players. We've unlocked everything else, and in some cases maxed maybe a handful of ultra rares. Now there's nothing guaranteeing me a weekly promotional weapon, and those very same weapons are inhibiting my progress to new items I don't even have the first level of.

The store should change as a player's manifest develops and as new content releases. We should be receiving new items we have yet obtain instead of being inundated with level IV ammo -- an obvious, if not useful, cop out to artificially extend gameplay.

[azoth1267]

i dont think the mp will die out without a UR box of some kind, but i do think that with the drop rates the way they are, there will be quite a few people who will just give up. RNG being what it is, there is not much we can do about that, but even that wouldnt be too big of an issue if the rates were just a tad bit higher. (12kk was my longest spree with nothing to show for it)

part of it comes from the time needed to get the credits to spend on a box that gets you nothing.
another part is the disappointment of getting nothing for your effort.
another smaller factor is the skill needed to get higher amounts of credits (plat regulars are rare it seems)

over all, its just frustrating to see hard work and all that just go to waste, though i will say i do prefer the level 4 ammo to infinite character cards from the old days

[Grundle47]

All this arguing, yet nearly every single time I buy a reinforcements pack I get an UR weapon. Where is the first world problems meme when we need it?

[Bryan Johnson]

Alright ill comment a bit more on this first off I do not believe that it is completely unresonable that URs are the way they are. Before you launch at me with pitchforks and flaming torches let me explain.

I am going to try and be objective here.

Here is the breakdown (have a feeling this will get mauled by formating so you might have to excuse me while I correct it)

Common
Weapons: 50
Characters: 60
Mods: 65
Gear: 0
Capacity: 0

Uncommon
Weapons: 110
Characters: 30
Mods: 55
Gear: 95
Capacity: 0

Rare
Weapons: 250
Characters: 186
Mods: 85
Gear: 105
Capacity: 16

UltraRare
Weapons: 210
Characters: 12
Mods: 0
Gear: 0
Capacity: 0

To sum it all up
Common unlocks: 175
Uncommon unlocks: 290
Rare unlocks: 642
UltraRare unlocks: 222

Lets say cost for unlock for common is 5k (recruit pack), uncommon is 20k (veteran pack), Rare is 50k (PSP/Arsenal/Reserve divided by 2), and UR I will range between 500k and 1million.

This makes the cost to unlock:
Common: 875k
Uncommon: 5.8mil
Rare: 32.1mil
UR: 111mil - 222mil

This makes the ratio between them
Uncommon:Common: 6.63
Rare:Uncommon: 5.53
UR:Rare: 6.92 - 3.46


These are not unresonable levels of progression


Note: I am aware that you will sometimes get more than this from a pack, and the balance can be thrown off, but this is for a simplicity sake compare. You would also need to essentially minus the Rare cost from the UR pool since the percentages are based on only buying PSP/Arsenal/Reserve. I know that you will say that the Veteran pack has a chance to drop a rare, but ultimately it is not as likely as a PSP/Reserve/Arsenal to drop.


To go to another point:
A UR only pack, you face the issue of what is "resonable", if it was only released for cash (like some have suggested) then people complain it is not fair to those that dont want to spend money. You also have to consider that in that case how many people are going to buy that pack as opposed to other packs (yes selling packs makes us money, it ultimately pays my wages, and allows for future games/products to be made).


If you are going to quote me please put in -snip-

Modifié par Bryan Johnson, 13 mars 2013 - 08:35 .

[032OffensiveBias]

ABjerre wrote...

Gezar149 wrote...
http://social.biowar...n&platform=xbox
I am neither young or new and as my "Emotional development" you just have to take my  word that I am reasonably mature individual..

I never said that you were, i was explaining why different games directed at different segments work in different ways.

And on a side note, you aren't missing much in not having that PPR. Instead mourning that percieved loss, be thankfull that you've only gotten 3 CSMGs and that you've been blessed with the best assault rifle, pistol, shotgun and sniper rifle(s) and smg fully or highly evolved.

disagree, csmg is my favorite SMG and ppr has claimed highest DPS for any ar

[Pugz82]

BroJo ftw.

But they will never accept your answer...also, unban Gornok...he was banned for speaking the truth in this thread by butthurt moderators.

[Whlte Rlder]

So based on those numbers Bryan, you said that 111-222m isn't an unreasonable progression.

That's fine, so why not add a pack at the top end of that scale.

1m UR pack. 1 UR guaranteed. Nothing else.

At least that way we keep the similar levels of progression but it actually gives us something to work towards.

[Pugz82]

Nah, earn your UR's the same we those of us who have them did. PLAY THE GAME!!!!

[Dokteur Kill]

Bryan Johnson wrote...
These are not unresonable levels of progression

Not if rarity correlated with power level, no.

But let's face it, it doesn't. 

[032OffensiveBias]

Miniditka77 wrote...

032OffensiveBias wrote...

skill is not the only factor in this game. I have enough skill for gold but my weapons, mods, and gears are not ready for gold.

As to the first part, you're absolutely right.  Someone with low level weapons will never be able to do as well as a similarly skilled player with Level X Ultra Rares.

But as to the 2nd part - there are several classes that rely very little on weapons, mods, and gears.  Human Adept, Asari Adept, Paladin, Shadow, Human Engineer, Human Vanguard, Fury, and Slayer are just some examples.  Most of those characters can do almost as well with low level Rare weapons as they would with a Level X Ultra Rare. 

I've used many of these classes on gold and they just don't beat a good gun.

[Whlte Rlder]

Pugz82 wrote...

Nah, earn your UR's the same we those of us who have them did. PLAY THE GAME!!!!

If that was directed at me you may want to check my manifest.

[Bryan Johnson]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...
These are not unresonable levels of progression

Not if rarity correlated with power level, no.

But let's face it, it doesn't. 

If the singular reason you are playing the game is "power level" obviously not everyone agrees on what is the most powerful thing ever. 

[Dokteur Kill]

Bryan Johnson wrote...
If the singular reason you are playing the game is "power level" obviously not everyone agrees on what is the most powerful thing ever.

Please, you're above strawman arguments.

Part of the problem with the store as it is, as a progression system, is that it's not necessarily giving you the feeling of progression, going from uncommon to rare to ultra-rare. Many of the rares and URs are really only that - more difficult to get. Getting them doesn't necessarily represent a "progression" as such. They're just speedbumps on the way to other items.

As I said previously in this thread, you really should rework the rarity categories.