638 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkiePipes]

The chance % rate SHOULD be improved. Personally i dont care if i get UR's, thats just a nice bonus.

BUT.. it will not affect the Store and people buying packs for real life money in any way, because anyone with a brain and has been playing this long enough, is NOT going to spend hard cash on the store in an attempt to get UR's out of it . You expect people to pay $20 for a bunch of packs when they are pretty sure they are just going to get level 4 ammo out of it ? . People just wont do it. The only people in thier sane mind that would spend irl cash on the store is people with a lot of low/rare guns/characters to unlock because they come up a LOT .

If the UR droprate was vastly increased (Granted than they wouldnt be "ultra rare" anymore) to around 20% , then people may be willing to risk a bit of cash for it , and Bioware/EA can make more money off the older playerbase too.

[Mendelevosa]

I don't need a maxed manifest. Though what I would like is the opportunity just to get the URs at least at level I, and the game won't even do that for me! After playing for a year and over 400 hours, the store should have been a little more generous.

[ABjerre]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

ABjerre wrote...
The RNG treats everyone the same. Thats fair.

People playing on higher difficulties are getting more shots at the store because Platinium it takes more skill, consumeables ect. to do so, but their chance is still the same. Thats fair.

Would it be fair to decrease their chance simply because they play a higher difficulty?
Would it be fair to increas the chance of getting a UR for an individual simply for because he is new and play lower difficulties?

The RNG doesn't treat everyone equaly. My buddy has less than twice my hours and got two double ultra rare packs (I'm talking about double weapon pack, not the double volus one ;-) In my 800 hours, I've never seen one. On the other hand, he had a 2/3 million cold streak, when I've never had one that exceed 1.5 million (roughly). Is this fair? I'm not so sure.

It sounds a lot like you, over the total length of your MP-careers have been treated very equally by the store:
He has had some double-UR's. You've had none.
He has had some dry streaks to compensate. You've had none.

You dont work a lot with statistics, do you?

Cohen le Barbare wrote...
A game should never be balanced towards higher difficulties, that's what Indie/hardcore games are for. I can play gold/platinum, you can check my sig (link to N7HQ) People playing high difficulties are already rewarded since they unlock the good stuff faster. All I'm saying is that an UR pack would give bronze/silver players a better chance at trying UR weapons, provided they save money.

About "Hardcore and Indie games", thats your opinion. I disagree with you about a game being balanced for harder difficulties, but i'm not going in to a discussion about Game PLC here.

About people playing on higher difficulties already being rewarded, the game mimics many other aspects of life: People that are skillfull at what they do recieve great rewards - people less skillfull recieve lesser rewards. If you ask me, thats pretty fair.

If everyone were to recieve the same reward, regardless of their engagement and skill, people would loose the incitament to strive towards becoming better. In this case, why would i want to play Platinium with a PUG success-rate of ~50% on a good day, wasting many consumeables in a stressfull enviroment with people that i dont like, when instead i could blaze through Silver twice as fast, with a 95% success rate, spending no consumeables in a much less stressfull enviroment for the same reward?

Cohen le Barbare wrote...
The store could have been like that: buy a level 1 UR weapon for 500k and subsequent upgrades for 550, 600, 650 etc. it would still take 7.25 millions to max this weapon. Is that fast for you?

Just for the sake of it, I can buy a paladin or any other specter weapons in solo if I want to, if I have enough money. I have to chose between saving my money for them, or spending on lower quality weapons/weapon upgrades/armors. It should be the same in multiplayer.

It is important that you understand some things here. First look up "Product Life Cycle" (marketing terminology: PLC) and "Skinners Box". Understanding these 2 concepts will provide you with all the knowledge you need to understand why the store and DLC is designed the way it is.

I am sure that if BioWare was not only the developer, but also the publisher of ME3, the MP store would work like it does in SP, which would make a lot more sense.

You can thank EA for the design of the store in its current form.

[Pugz82]

This crap is still going on....good lawd!

[ABjerre]

Mendelevosa wrote...

I don't need a maxed manifest. Though what I would like is the opportunity just to get the URs at least at level I, and the game won't even do that for me! After playing for a year and over 400 hours, the store should have been a little more generous.

According to your manifest, you have all but 2 UR's unlocked, arguably the best one maxed, and several on high levels of evolution. Is that not what you wanted?

[TheloniusBear]

Elotana wrote...

I don't think the mathematical specifics of the value comparison are really going to settle this. Put yourself in the shoes of the "average" player, mostly Silver with some Gold mixed in if they're feeling brave or with private friends. Even playing continuously from launch, that player is probably halfway to maxing their guns at best. Now you throw a bunch more black cards in the pool, in the same week you discontinue the regular events keeping this game fresh? Suddenly the entertainment-to-grind ratio of the game just shot way up.

If you want the game to glide to a dignified end instead of falling off a cliff, you need to throw a few more bones.

I feel like you were describing me! I've played since the demo but have stuck to silvers because I pug 95% of my games. You can check my manifest (GT in sig) and see how that has worked out for me so far. I still have characters to unlock, let alone weapons. I'm not totally against the random nature of the store but there definitely comes a point when I almost just want to give up and concede the fact that I may never have a maxed manifest. It's frustrating because this is easily my favorite multiplayer I have played and I feel like I won't ever get to enjoy everything the game offers. 

[Mendelevosa]

ABjerre wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

I don't need a maxed manifest. Though what I would like is the opportunity just to get the URs at least at level I, and the game won't even do that for me! After playing for a year and over 400 hours, the store should have been a little more generous.

According to your manifest, you have all but 2 UR's unlocked, arguably the best one maxed, and several on high levels of evolution. Is that not what you wanted?

Sorry, I just woke up and left out part of what I wanted to say. It took almost a year just to get most of the URs at level I. While I'm glad I have the UR i currently have in my possession, it wouls have been nice to get at least one of each UR after spending 7 million credits for Reckoning. What I forgot to include in my other post is that it would have been nice of there was an increased chance to unlock the new items for a week after the DLC released. That way, more people would be able to try out everything the DLC had the offer.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 13 mars 2013 - 12:55 .

[Cohen le Barbare]

ABjerre wrote...
It sounds a lot like you, over the total length of your MP-careers have been treated very equally by the store: 
He has had some double-UR's. You've had none.
He has had some dry streaks to compensate. You've had none.

You dont work a lot with statistics, do you?

No I don't, and asking to look into statistics for an entertainment product is just wrong 

ABjerre wrote...
About "Hardcore and Indie games", thats your opinion. I disagree with you about a game being balanced for harder difficulties, but i'm not going in to a discussion about Game PLC here.

c'mon, that was a bad troll :innocent:

ABjerre wrote...
About people playing on higher difficulties already being rewarded, the game mimics many other aspects of life: People that are skillfull at what they do recieve great rewards - people less skillfull recieve lesser rewards. If you ask me, thats pretty fair.

Again, it's a game, skilled players are rewarded as they get high-tier faster. Lesser skilled player, especially in an entertainment product, should be rewarded too. Meritocracy be damned, look what it did to Turians! I'm all for guts 'n glory, but damn, I want my carrot, no matter how tasty it is.

ABjerre wrote...
If everyone were to recieve the same reward, regardless of their engagement and skill, people would loose the incitament to strive towards becoming better. In this case, why would i want to play Platinium with a PUG success-rate of ~50% on a good day, wasting many consumeables in a stressfull enviroment with people that i dont like, when instead i could blaze through Silver twice as fast, with a 95% success rate, spending no consumeables in a much less stressfull enviroment for the same reward?

Your version of fun is different than mine. I play all the difficulties (not plat much, it's a DPS fest, nothing else). Maybe you're looking for a chance of failure to make things more interesting, I'm looking for a relaxing time with my buddies. That shouldn't prevent me from trying everything. 
All my plat games were between 20/25 minutes (I've only played 20 though). My silver games take between 15 and 18 minutes (less if on glacier). Failing on wav 6 on plat nets you 60k (more or less) and can be done faster than extracting on silver. It doesn't take much to reach 6 waves on plat, even with a dodgy pug.

ABjerre wrote...
I am sure that if BioWare was not only the developer, but also the publisher of ME3, the MP store would work like it does in SP, which would make a lot more sense.

You can thank EA for the design of the store in its current form.

That has to be the only point on which we agree. 

[Mariachi 43]

I feel like dropping my two cents in here. I had a maxed manifest before reckoning, and had 6.4 million credits saved (so 64 PSPs). Out of those 64, I got collector adept 3 times, venom 6, lancer 4, spitfire 3, and punisher 1. So that's 17 URs out of 64 packs, which for those keeping score at home, is just over a 25% drop rate, or 400k ish per ultra rare.

Not taking a stance, just dropping a case study is all.

[saecula]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Even with 30 minute gold matches (lol) ...

... If you take into account that most matches on gold run for 20 minutes, not 30 minutes, you end up with around 900 hours. ...

Those are the *real* numbers.

Hi, a gold match may take 20 minutes from the moment it starts to the moment you extract, but you need to take into account the time spent in the lobby, the time spent on respecs, the time spent gearing up, the time spent in the store, the time wasted on failed matches and disconnects, the time spent trying to get your friends into the same lobby, the time spent searching for a pug, and so on and so on. 30 minutes of *real* time spent per gold game is a reasonable approximation to me.

[Leland Gaunt]

If you want a guaranteed UR, you should pay at least 1.5 million credits for it.
It usually takes like 10 PSP's to get an UR, but because you guys want to play it safe, you should have to pay for that.

You could gamble with those credits and buy PSPs and you may end up with more than one UR but also with no UR. If you wanna go the safe route, you should pay for that, so that's why I say that 1.5 million would be a good amount of money for such a pack.

[OuterRim]

alan 10 wrote...

@Brian Johnson (Sorry the quote doesn't work on my tablet)
I figure it would be at least a way to try the ultra rare weapons, I mean, I would really like to try a lancer, spitfire, or harrier.

Even for 500,00

Even if the pack cost 2mill, it would still be a much better drop rate then what I'm getting now and I'd buy that pack in a second.

[OuterRim]

Mariachi 43 wrote...

I feel like dropping my two cents in here. I had a maxed manifest before reckoning, and had 6.4 million credits saved (so 64 PSPs). Out of those 64, I got collector adept 3 times, venom 6, lancer 4, spitfire 3, and punisher 1. So that's 17 URs out of 64 packs, which for those keeping score at home, is just over a 25% drop rate, or 400k ish per ultra rare.

Not taking a stance, just dropping a case study is all.

You are one lucky SOB. lol

I had 12.1 mill saved, and got 14 URs including the 1 collector character I received. And I was very happy about that as my drop rate is usually a lot worse.

Modifié par OuterRim, 13 mars 2013 - 01:24 .

[ABjerre]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

ABjerre wrote...
It sounds a lot like you, over the total length of your MP-careers have been treated very equally by the store: 
He has had some double-UR's. You've had none.
He has had some dry streaks to compensate. You've had none.

You dont work a lot with statistics, do you?

No I don't, and asking to look into statistics for an entertainment product is just wrong 

*snip*

ABjerre wrote...
I am sure that if BioWare was not only the developer, but also the publisher of ME3, the MP store would work like it does in SP, which would make a lot more sense.

You can thank EA for the design of the store in its current form.

That has to be the only point on which we agree. 

Quick example, numbers are not representative:

Your friends purchases:

[00000 1 000000000 2 0000000000000000000 2 000000000000000000 1 00000]

Total: 60 packs, 6 URs, including 2 double packs = 1 UR in 10 packs average.

Your purchases:

[00000 1 000000000 1 000000000 1 000000000 1 000000000 1 000000000 1 00000]

Total: 60 packs, 6 URs, including 0 double packs = 1 UR in 10 packs average.

It may not appear so because your friend got 2 double packs, but over the course or the 60 packs, you were treated equally.

If you are complaining over something while unwilling to try and understand it, then i'm afraid that we dont have a lot to talk about, so lets just leave it here

Modifié par ABjerre, 13 mars 2013 - 01:27 .

[Dark Tlaloc]

Mendelevosa wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

I don't need a maxed manifest. Though what I would like is the opportunity just to get the URs at least at level I, and the game won't even do that for me! After playing for a year and over 400 hours, the store should have been a little more generous.

According to your manifest, you have all but 2 UR's unlocked, arguably the best one maxed, and several on high levels of evolution. Is that not what you wanted?

Sorry, I just woke up and left out part of what I wanted to say. It took almost a year just to get most of the URs at level I. While I'm glad I have the UR i currently have in my possession, it wouls have been nice to get at least one of each UR after spending 7 million credits for Reckoning. What I forgot to include in my other post is that it would have been nice of there was an increased chance to unlock the new items for a week after the DLC released. That way, more people would be able to try out everything the DLC had the offer.

Yeah, this is kinda how I feel. I don’t think I’ve had the
worst luck in the world (although in the last 
5 million or so credits I haven’t done too well), but I would certainly
like to have at least one of each UR. Everyone on BSN is talking about how
awesome the Lancer is--I’d like to try it to see if I agree, and if so, I’d be
more motivated to upgrade it. I like the Valkyrie a lot, and BSN hates it, so
it’s an example of why it’s helpful to be able to try the guns out yourself.
Likewise, I love the Geth Juggernaut, and really want a Spitfire to put on him.
Do I care if it sucks? Not really; I’d like one either way, even if only at I. It’s
just frustrating that after spending 3.5 million on the new DLC day one (and as
I’ve said, another 1.5 or 2 million since), I haven’t seen even ONE of the new
URs yet.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I understand that Ultra Rare should mean
ULTRA rare; I’m just saying that from a gameplay perspective, having a good
chance at getting at least a lv 1 of the guns isn’t a bad idea.

[032OffensiveBias]

skill is not the only factor in this game. I have enough skill for gold but my weapons, mods, and gears are not ready for gold.

[Cohen le Barbare]

ABjerre wrote...
If you are complaining over something while unwilling to try and understand it, then i'm afraid that we dont have a lot to talk about, so lets just leave it here

It's not that I'm unwilling to understand it, all I'm asking for is a better chance to try everything (an UR pack), but I can't do it, for the sake of statistics and randomness. But yeah, let's leave it at that.

[Dark Tlaloc]

032OffensiveBias wrote...

skill is not the only factor in this game. I have enough skill for gold but my weapons, mods, and gears are not ready for gold.

Yeah, I think this is something a lot of the “elite” people
on BSN don’t think about; even if you’re skilled enough for Gold/Plat, if you’re
not playing with the right weapons, you might not be doing any damage, which is
no fun for anyone. Being constrained by a lack of consumables/weapon variety is
no fun, and if the game is to be played for fun, then availability of items is
a consideration.

 

I’m sure people will chime in with “then play Silver/Bronze,”
which is fine, except that some people like more challenge than that provides,
in which case you’re still stuck. Bronze is a cakewalk, and Silver isn’t too
challenging if you know what you’re doing (even if your equipment isn’t good),
but after that, you need good equipment, so there’s a disconnect.

[blaster1 112]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

032OffensiveBias wrote...

I'd still rather pay 1m for a guaranteed UR than extend a 2 month, 8million credit no-ur dry streak of PSPs, APs, and RPs.

Is this something you have experienced or are you going based on what you have heard?

Had this with a 5.5 million spending streak when earth came out. spend around 8.2 Million Cr WITHOUT receiving a single UR in PSP's right after though i got 3 Wraiths in a row....... pretty strange though 82 PSP's and no UR i was so PISSED

[Shadohz]

Like I used to tell my ex-gf... Here's why you suck:
1. Your linear math is produces a false estimate.
2. Players spend WAY too much time in lobbies idle (gabbing, buying store items, prepping chars).
3. Playing a higher difficulty too soon (even the box-of-shame requires some decent gear and skill level so you aren't just slapped around like a hockey puck)
4. Over-extending the game (15min bronze, 21 min silver, 28min gold and fudge plat)
5. Not effectively playing objectives (I could go on all day about this).
6. No team/character synergy (Don't play what you want because you like it. Pick characters that compliment each other).

In short, don't waste you time/concern with trying to populate your manifest. Focus on shorter, more effective playstyles (and have fun). If all else fails, Kroguard/Geth is the OP way to go lol

Yes, the dry streaks can be a PITA. but alot of the people I see requesting store boost are VERY casual gamers (the weekend-warrior National Guards type). 

Modifié par Shadohz, 13 mars 2013 - 02:04 .

[Impulse and Compulse]

For me, the game is most fun when I have awesome characters in weapons. Not grinding with crappy ones up to that point. Bioware designed a system meant to encourage microtransactions and then made microtransactions practically worthless.

[TODD 5184]

I haven't had an UR in 3 days...

[Trontor]

Mar3ekl wrote...

Regarding the low-UR streaks: yeah, I once spent 2,2 MIL credits on PSPs, only to get 2 URs. I know, it's not exactly zero, but it wasn't very pleasant either.

Well, the expected drop rate is 10%. 2.2 million credits will buy 22 PSPs for which 2 URs is the expected drop rate. It would of course be nice if the expected drop rate was higher, in particular for people who have maxed out everything except ultra-rare weapons.

[Cohen le Barbare]

Shadohz wrote...
Yes, the dry streaks can be a PITA. but alot of the people I see requesting store boost are VERY casual gamers (the weekend-warrior National Guards type). 

I don't consider myself a casual gamer (after all, I did sink 800 hours in this game) yet I'd like to be able to try out everything when I want to, not when the goddman store decides it ;-)

[Tydeus]

I'm pretty much a casual gamer, I was on all the time around launch but now I'm not on for every challenge weekend. (Are we still getting those or as it ended now?) I've only got 244hrs. I do have quite a lot of stuff though. I would pretty much love all the characters though, I think I pretty much got the ultra rares before anything else.