292 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Would it be as crazy as the ending of ME1 where you're trying to figure out what you should do?

Save the Council...
There was no question...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mars 2013 - 06:26 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
[*]I had some different ideas along the same lines. But like most players, you think like a pragmatic paragon at worst.

1) Your idea with Xen is flawed. Xen didn't give a damn about the trial. She was interested in the research only. Shepard should have been able to cut a side deal with her to give her the data, but only if she kept Rael's name out of it and took full credit for the research herself. In the game you could approach her after the trial and she did ask you "are you sure you didn't find anything aboard the Alerei, Commander?"

It is here where you should have had that opportunity. "If I did, what would I gain from it? What would Tali gain from it?" and Xen could offer you a weapon, some additional shielding, or something like that for either your ship or your armor, and just forget where she found the data. This of course would be a renegade deal. Paragons would have nothing to do with this. You should not lose Tali's loyalty. I think renegades got the shaft too many times for being pragmatic. This would be a pragmatic decision as opposed to being idealistic.

2) The thing about someone like a pragmatic non-idealistic Shepard is that some ass like Harkin is likely to get himself bound and gagged and tossed into the back of the car while Garrus takes out Sidonis, then taken into a room somewhere for some "interrogation". I'm sure Mordin can help extract the information rather painlessly.

3) You give Jacob's dad a better weapon in exchange for the location of the armor research. Well the "hunters" are all after Jacob's dad. Pick up the women, the research and leave Jacob's dad there.... alone if he survived. There are fates worse than death, explain that to Jacob.

4) The Tali/Legion scenario is easy. I don't activate Legion until after the Suicide Mission, then do his loyalty mission and blow up the heretics. I have Kasumi for tech expert.

5) Zaeed? I kill Vido. Not a problem. Vido shot him in the head. Vido hired Batarians. "Cheaper labor, he said. Bunch of goddamn terrorists, I said" I agree with Zaeed. Shepard hates Batarians. Vido needs to die. Vido is a bad man. (oh but the refinery workers! -- the place is going to blow! Look, I'm sorry. I'm just a farmer, and a goddamned assassin. How the hell am I supposed to know how to stop a damned refinery from blowing up? -- I'm role playing here. I'm going with Zaeed.)

6) Jack/Miranda? Side with Jack. Garrus, whose loyalty is secured and with the thanix weapon now secured through other means leads the groups. Miranda hangs back in Garrus' group.

The reaper orbiting the brown dwarf? Fall within the next day? garbage. 37 million years. It's orbit would not decay like that. Pure garbage. Smudboy would have you on that. LOL. The ironic thing is that TIM already has the IFF program as we find out later in ME3 since he was able to go through the Omega 4 relay and survive without the problem of drifting into a black hole.

the ship things were rough ideas but what about these.  I've put more thought into it and come up with some more interesting alternatives.

[*]1) After the trip to the Alori Xen offers you a deal for advanced Shield research data in exchange for personal access to what you found aboard the Alori.  If you agree to this you get the ship shielding schematics, but she aquires the data about Rael.  If you try to rally the crowd against the court (or charm/intimidate) in this case, she turns over the data as evidence and you lose tali's loyalty.  But if you allow tali to be exiled you can keep rael's name clean, keep the shield data, and tali's loyalty, but she will be an exile and peace between the quarians and geth in the next game will not be possible (assuming we're keeping that on the table)  If you withold the evidence from Xen you dont get the shield upgrades but you have the existing choices that you do normally.  so it'd be possible to end up with more loyal characters for the suicide mission with all ship upgrades.  This could have an impact on the ability to get through the suicide mission with all survivors in my other post...

[*]2) After Garrus gets the information Harkin pleads with Shepard to supply him with black market schematics for thannix cannons if you let him go without reporting him to C-Sec.  If you do then Sidonis never shows up and Garrus never gets closure.  After the mission you get a message from Harkin that he's relocated to Omega where C-Sec can't touch him and to thank you for your understanding.  He gives you the thannix cannon schematics but also mentions that he called Sidonis back and told him some bull**** so he wouldn't show up, "It'd be bad for business if my clients started showing up dead, hope you understand."  Garrus isnt pissed at you, but he's pissed for trusting harkin and never gets closure, but you get the Thannix Cannon upgrade.

[*]3) During the mission shepard finds schematics for powerful ship armor, but they're heavil encrypted.  In exchange for the encryption Ronald Taylor asks that you falsify the report you give to the alliance so he doesnt catch heat for what he did.  Afterwards he'll transmit the encryption to the normandy as a thank you and disappear "off the grid" so he cant be found again should the truth ever come out.  I think that would work and not leave any logical holes. between any characters.

[*]4) I guess you dont know about this, but samara has a reponse IN THE GAME towards renegade shepard in her last conversation.  she says that she'll be compelled to hunt you down, but nothing comes of this reaction, which is really surprising

[*]5) Thats the idea, the only thing i change here is making the paragon pursuade NOT give you his loyalty despite letting Vido go in the paragon ending.

[*]6) With my correction to the Thannix Cannon idea I believe the rest of the suggestions end up still working now. 

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 13 mars 2013 - 06:39 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bill Casey wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Would it be as crazy as the ending of ME1 where you're trying to figure out what you should do?

Save the Council...
There was no question...

So you're saying sacrificing the alliance fleet is a non issue at that point in the story is what you're saying?  "They dont matter they're just army guys who cares"

[Bill Casey]

I didn't sacrifice the fleet...
They died...

There's right and wrong, and bioware decided to punish players for doing the right thing at the last minute (refuse ending)...
They basically said the end justifies the means, morality is meaningless and paragons are stupid...

That's the message of ME3's ending...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mars 2013 - 06:42 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Troxa wrote...

to have total control drew me to the series it whats made ME sell, it's an rpg players expect to have more control over the outcome
If I wanted no control over the game i would go & play uncharted
arushedjoke.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/mass-effect-3-and-artistic-integrity/
arushedjoke.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/bioware-and-artistic-vision/

You didnt have total control in ME1.  most of that game was spent fighting against a controlling system, the council.  Also, choice isnt the same thing as control.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

David7204 wrote...

I very seriously doubt that.

Well I doubt YOU could.  Anyone with confidence in public speaking can tell people that they're shams and total frauds.  that's really all shepard did.  it wasn't really that great of a speech, it was barely a step up from a teenager telling his parents how bull**** they are and how they dont understand, and it felt like HE thought it was cool.  No one in any real situation would take the words he used seriously, in either case.  People busting out in court doesnt win cases, it makes you look like a complete idiot.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bill Casey wrote...

I didn't sacrifice the fleet...
They died...

There's right and wrong, and bioware decided to punish players for doing the right thing at the last minute (refuse ending)...
They basically said the end justifies the means, morality is meaningless and paragons are stupid...

That's the message of ME3's ending...

I guess you missed the part where joker's hesitant to put the fleet in the way to protect the destiny ascension, and shepard reassures him that its more important.  "Protect the Destiny Ascension, whatever the cost"


Also why are paragons so upset about ME3's ending?  You guys didnt have a problem brainwashing the heretics during legion's loyalty mission.  Why are geth lives and free will suddenly a big deal to you NOW when the catalyst choices are just expanded versions of the final choices from legion's loyalty mission?

hypocritical.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 13 mars 2013 - 06:48 .

[Bill Casey]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

I guess you missed the part
where joker's hesitant to put the fleet in the way to protect the
destiny ascension, and shepard reassures him that its more important. 
"Protect the Destiny Ascension, whatever the cost"

It was the right thing to do...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mars 2013 - 06:49 .

[Bill Casey]

Brainwashing the heretics wasn't paragon...
It was ****ing deplorable...

Bioware should have been ashamed of themselves...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mars 2013 - 06:50 .

[Venom man4]

I don't like the idea of no matter what choice the player makes they are going to get a negative result. Some times when you have to make a hard decision is fine but don't base the whole game around those decisions.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bill Casey wrote...

It was the right thing to do...

So brainwashing geth is okay, but synthesising all organic life isnt?

or is it that DESTROYING thousands of geth is okay, but destroying millions of geth isnt?


people are too flip-flopy on this whole "It was okay to do it on that mission, but its not okay to do a different version of that same thing at the end of ME3"

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Venom man4 wrote...

I don't like the idea of no matter what choice the player makes they are going to get a negative result. Some times when you have to make a hard decision is fine but don't base the whole game around those decisions.

ME3 only bases a few moments on that.  the ending of tuchunka, the ending of rannoch, and the ending of the game.


theres still plenty of not-so-difficult decisions throughout me3.

[Bill Casey]

No it's not ****ing right...
It's ****ing disgusting...

I destroyed the heretic geth...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mars 2013 - 06:52 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bill Casey wrote...

Brainwashing the heretics wasn't paragon...
It was ****ing deplorable...

Bioware should have been ashamed of themselves...

So you destroyed the heretic geth, (thousands of geth programs)

and then what did you pick at the end of me3?

i'm curious how those correlate.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 13 mars 2013 - 06:53 .

[Bill Casey]

Destroyed the heretics...
Destroy ending option...

The former was the right thing to do...
The latter one makes me want to kill myself a year later...
I'm a ****ing monstrous piece of ****...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mars 2013 - 06:55 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

why? You were fine with killing thousands of geth programs in mass effect 2.

you killed thousands of geth in me1 through just regular gameplay


but killing geth in mass effect 3 okay now you feel bad oh okay. those other ten thousand didnt count but these ones over here in mass effect 3 i'm a monster if i kill them.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 13 mars 2013 - 06:56 .

[Bill Casey]

Did you just equate the heretics to the geth?
Seriously?

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bill Casey wrote...

Did you just equate the heretics to the geth?
Seriously?

Two is greater than one, but two is less than three.

you do the math. 

[Bill Casey]

That's really racist...

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

racist or...spacist   !!!

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 13 mars 2013 - 07:00 .

[Nykara]

Bill Casey wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Would it be as crazy as the ending of ME1 where you're trying to figure out what you should do?

Save the Council...
There was no question...

There was actually, in saving the council how many other ships and lives where lost to save only a few lives? At the end of the day I am not entirely sure sacrificing those people to save the council was the right thing to do. Neither was leaving them behind, it was merely a choice that was neither good nor bad. It did however have a consiquence later by saving the council ships where lost as was war assets.

[wright1978]

The only thing i would change about ME2 is that there should always be at least one casualty on the 'hold the line portion'. Otherwise no i wouldn't change the way chocie is done in the story.

[grey_wind]

I'd change some parts of ME2 like tali's trial or the standoff with Vasir so you can't just Paragon/Renegade your way out of them.

On the other hand, being unable to solve your squad's arguments with both sides coming to terms just makes your squadmates look like immature children and Shepard an awful commander.

And while I can see the appeal about the way you describe making a hard choice for ship upgrades, it seems completely forced and arbitrary in an age where information can be whipped up in microseconds on a glowing arm module, especially when for the majority of the game one of the most powerful information brokers in the galaxy is backing your mission.

[George Costanza]

They never really gave you that much choice, did they? And the choices they gave you were mostly covered with a palette swap, a couple of lines of dialogue, and the odd e-mail. In the end the choices amounted to very little, and many of them were just completely ignored. It was the illusion of choice, rather than actual choice.

[Razgaros]

wright1978 wrote...

The only thing i would change about ME2 is that there should always be at least one casualty on the 'hold the line portion'. Otherwise no i wouldn't change the way chocie is done in the story.

Yeah I kinda feel like the perfect result is obtained too easily, altought it should be doable. Plus some loyalty missions are poor excuses for being unfocused. If anything, the suicide mission should have been more like the citadel dlc, with more interactions beetween the two groups. Would have been nice if you had the abillity to control who ever was leading the other party, and to make decisions as that leader, altought i'am pretty sure the problem is more about the number of people you can put on screen that a case of "they did'n want to bother trying to do better".