236 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

The Hierophant wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Gratuitous violence? I'd like to see you justify that.

In contrast to Dragon Age where people explode when poked by daggers, decapitations, crushed, frozen, and shattered i find myself intrigued now.

In all of those instances, Hawke is defending himself. It's not the same situation at all. And blood is not required in order for violence to be gratuitous.

Prolonged montages of child slaughter are gratuitous. Drowning someone with wine is gratuitous. Decapitating a horse because its rider lost a tournament is gratuitous. I don't give a **** if stuff like that "really happened" or "makes sense in context".

It makes me feel ill when I watch it and if that's "dark and mature" storytelling, then I want no part of it.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Gratuitous violence? I'd like to see you justify that.

I don't have to justify dick to you. If it makes me feel like I'm going to throw up, it's gratuitous, and I don't give even half a **** how the story rationalises it.

How very hostile. So, basically, you have no justification?
If you mean to say that it looks gross, fine. It's a matter of personal taste altough, as Hieropanth remarks, no one has exploded in a gory mess in "Game of Thrones" yet.
If you mean to say that the violence in the series serves no purpose to the story, then I'll say you haven't been paying enough attention.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
Prolonged montages of child slaughter are gratuitous.

The children were slaugthered because they served as proof of the incest between Jaime and Cersei Lannister and therefore presented a threat to King Joffrey's claim to the throne.
Their slaugther makes perfect sense.

Drowning someone with wine is gratuitous.

"BOOK SPOILER YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED" No because by saving him, Sansa has gained an ally in King's Landing that will help her escape and then be revealed to have actually been working for someone else all along.
There is a point to it.

Decapitating a horse because its rider lost a tournament is gratuitous.

It's perfectly In-Character for Gregor Clegane.

[The Hierophant]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Gratuitous violence? I'd like to see you justify that.

In contrast to Dragon Age where people explode when poked by daggers, decapitations, crushed, frozen, and shattered i find myself intrigued now.

In all of those instances, Hawke is defending himself. It's not the same situation at all. And blood is not required in order for violence to be gratuitous.

Prolonged montages of child slaughter are gratuitous. Drowning someone with wine is gratuitous. Decapitating a horse because its rider lost a tournament is gratuitous. I don't give a **** if stuff like that "really happened" or "makes sense in context".

It makes me feel ill when I watch it and if that's "dark and mature" storytelling, then I want no part of it.

Remember that high as a kite cannibal bum who was eating some poor guys face off in Miami because he had a bad case of the munchies?

[TJPags]

Would be interesting. Bloody, and likely confusing (anyone really know who's going to make it in aSoIaF? I don't).

But does that mean the next game won't be released for 7 years?

[The Hierophant]

MisterJB wrote...
How very hostile. So, basically, you have no justification?
If you mean to say that it looks gross, fine. It's a matter of personal taste altough, as for Hierophant remarks, no one has exploded in a gory mess in "Game of Thrones" yet.
If you mean to say that the violence in the series serves no purpose to the story, then I'll say you haven't been paying enough attention.

I've read all the books, and watched the series. I was only thinking of how DA exaggerated the violence in combat in contrast to GoT. Gregor was hardcore though. 

As for Plaintiff it's only a matter of differences in taste at the causes, and portrayals of violence between the series.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Who wants to see A Song of Ice and Fire style storytelling?

Well, I found the first book so morbidly depressing I never bothered with the rest.

So, no.

[The Hierophant]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Who wants to see A Song of Ice and Fire style storytelling?

Well, I found the first book so morbidly depressing I never bothered with the rest.

So, no.

Read MBoTF.(no snark, only shameless promotion)

[Brockololly]

Xilizhra wrote...
I have no intention of ever reading or watching either series; my instinct is telling me that I'd hate them with a passion.

If you hate good books, then sure, skip it.

If you like Dragon Age and that kind of approach to fantasy then you'd likely enjoy A Song of Ice and Fire. Hell, most of the things that Dragon Age has done have been taken from A Song of Ice and Fire in some form, to some extent.

Xilizhra wrote...
I was sort of kidding. While it's true, the main reason I don't watch the show is because A. I don't really watch TV at all, and B. The series  seems extraordinarily depressing and painful to follow. The latter  reason is also why I don't read the books.

Ok, yeah, the show probably has more sex/nudity relative to the total screentime than the books (the books still have a decent amount however). And its not so much that the books are depressing as it is that **** hits the fan, frequently and often. If somebody dies, its not without some good reason. And the fun thing is that when someone big dies, the story keeps going. So you get to see the fallout and the consequences of those big events and deaths. And if it happens to be a character that you liked who dies, chances are somebody will remember their death and get sweet, sweet revenge later on!

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 mars 2013 - 02:41 .

[SgtElias]

Plaintiff wrote...

What difference does it make? Are the books any less of a confusing slog filled with gratuitously graphic sex and violence?

. . . not really, no. I thought that HBO was actually a (fairly) accurate representation of the books. In fact, sometimes I feel that the series is actually LESS violent and sexual than the source material. If you didn't like what little you saw of the series, I doubt reading the books is going to help too much.

A lot of people have said that they find A Song of Ice and Fire to be overly complicated, and that they need the wiki open to figure out what's going on, and I think that's a fair criticism. I personally like all those little obscure references, but I also thought the Silmarillion was just about the greatest thing ever, and that book is literally next to impossible your first time through without taking notes.

I think there are . . . other things that Game of Thrones does well, that future games might take inspiration from, either for Inquisition or in the future.

Modifié par SgtElias, 14 mars 2013 - 02:49 .

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...
The children were slaugthered because they served as proof of the incest between Jaime and Cersei Lannister and therefore presented a threat to King Joffrey's claim to the throne.
Their slaugther makes perfect sense.

Except they don't. Their parentage cannot be proven, and Joffrey has no way of knowing if the children whose murder he's ordered are, in fact, the sons of Robert Baratheon.

"BOOK SPOILER YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED" No because by saving him, Sansa has gained an ally in King's Landing that will help her escape and then be revealed to have actually been working for someone else all along.
There is a point to it.

I don't care. I'm not waiting around for another twenty-billion episodes for one of Joffrey's random acts of cruelty to have a point. Everything Martin writes might have a point, but we'll reach the heat-death of the universe before we found out what it is.

It's perfectly In-Character for Gregor Clegane.

Of course it is. Wanton and despicable cruelty is 'in character' for roughly 97% of the entire cast. Conveniently.

[mousestalker]

So the next installment of Dragon Age will be released five years from now. Released with no resolution to all the story arcs promised. A sequel with such resolution would then be promised and never delivered. Then it would be followed up by the whole thing being placed on hiatus so the writers can switch to writing "Dragon Age", a new mini series on HBO.

That's what being more like a 'Song of Fire and Ice' would be like. And before anyone resumes dissing the developers, writers and creators of Bioware, you might want to check out George R R Martin and what he thinks about writing, fan relations and other such non-essentials.

[Plaintiff]

mousestalker wrote...

So the next installment of Dragon Age will be released five years from now. Released with no resolution to all the story arcs promised. A sequel with such resolution would then be promised and never delivered. Then it would be followed up by the whole thing being placed on hiatus so the writers can switch to writing "Dragon Age", a new mini series on HBO.

That's what being more like a 'Song of Fire and Ice' would be like. And before anyone resumes dissing the developers, writers and creators of Bioware, you might want to check out George R R Martin and what he thinks about writing, fan relations and other such non-essentials.

Why? What does he think?

[TJPags]

Plaintiff wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

So the next installment of Dragon Age will be released five years from now. Released with no resolution to all the story arcs promised. A sequel with such resolution would then be promised and never delivered. Then it would be followed up by the whole thing being placed on hiatus so the writers can switch to writing "Dragon Age", a new mini series on HBO.

That's what being more like a 'Song of Fire and Ice' would be like. And before anyone resumes dissing the developers, writers and creators of Bioware, you might want to check out George R R Martin and what he thinks about writing, fan relations and other such non-essentials.

Why? What does he think?

GRRM believes he should not be bothered by things such as deadlines, and keeping to them . . .even when he sets them himself.  He also feels that his fans should not question the length of time it takes him to publish a book, regardless of how many times he has promised a book by "x date" and failed to deliver.  He maintains a blog in which he posts - quite often, in fact - about his many interests and activities, surprisingly few of which involve actually, you know, writing the book.

Google "Finish the book, George" for some humor on the topic.

[Angrywolves]

Never read those books, so no. I believe the fans want the game to be as much like Origins as possible.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
Except they don't. Their parentage cannot be proven, and Joffrey has no way of knowing if the children whose murder he's ordered are, in fact, the sons of Robert Baratheon.

Yes, it can. All offspring of House Baratheon have dark hair. Once, a Baratheon married a Lannister and she gave him dark haired children. Joffrey, Tommen and Mircella look nothing like Roberth whereas his bastards do, that would be enough to raise suspicion in a medieval setting. As for finding them, Robert was never secretive about the women he enjoyed. It would be easy to track them and their offspring.
But whether or not the decision is logically sound is irrelevant. What matter is that there is a point behind it that ties to the story and is, therefore, not gratuitous violence.

I don't care. I'm not waiting around for another twenty-billion episodes for one of Joffrey's random acts of cruelty to have a point. Everything Martin writes might have a point, but we'll reach the heat-death of the universe before we found out what it is.

Fine, you don't care. But you can't claim that it's gratuitous violence.

Of course it is. Wanton and despicable cruelty is 'in character' for roughly 97% of the entire cast. Conveniently.

All of Martin's character are all very human with both their flaws and virtues perfectly explainable given the society they were born in and the way they were raised.

Modifié par MisterJB, 14 mars 2013 - 03:07 .

[MisterJB]

Brockololly wrote...
And if it happens to be a character that you liked who dies, chances are somebody will remember their death and get sweet, sweet revenge later on!

"Edd, fetch me a block."

YES! It took four books but we got that frog who considered himself a dragon.

[daaaav]

Xilizhra wrote...

I have nothing against ******, but I'd rather not see them in contact with men.

Oh gawd.

[daaaav]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Spare us the Witcher fanboyism. It doesn't help your point.

A little ironic that a mear mention of another IP brings this kind of reaction isn't it?

[Xilizhra]

Brockololly wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I have no intention of ever reading or watching either series; my instinct is telling me that I'd hate them with a passion.

If you hate good books, then sure, skip it.

If you like Dragon Age and that kind of approach to fantasy then you'd likely enjoy A Song of Ice and Fire. Hell, most of the things that Dragon Age has done have been taken from A Song of Ice and Fire in some form, to some extent.

Xilizhra wrote...
I was sort of kidding. While it's true, the main reason I don't watch the show is because A. I don't really watch TV at all, and B. The series  seems extraordinarily depressing and painful to follow. The latter  reason is also why I don't read the books.

Ok, yeah, the show probably has more sex/nudity relative to the total screentime than the books (the books still have a decent amount however). And its not so much that the books are depressing as it is that **** hits the fan, frequently and often. If somebody dies, its not without some good reason. And the fun thing is that when someone big dies, the story keeps going. So you get to see the fallout and the consequences of those big events and deaths. And if it happens to be a character that you liked who dies, chances are somebody will remember their death and get sweet, sweet revenge later on!

I find Dragon Age... all right, but I more like its potential than the current reality. It's more the characters I'm into than the world itself; I prefer the ME universe a bit more.

And honestly, I don't like huge amounts of death much in this manner. I'm sure the series is good for some, but not for me.

[daaaav]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Gratuitous violence? I'd like to see you justify that.

In contrast to Dragon Age where people explode when poked by daggers, decapitations, crushed, frozen, and shattered i find myself intrigued now.

In all of those instances, Hawke is defending himself. It's not the same situation at all. And blood is not required in order for violence to be gratuitous.

Prolonged montages of child slaughter are gratuitous. Drowning someone with wine is gratuitous. Decapitating a horse because its rider lost a tournament is gratuitous. I don't give a **** if stuff like that "really happened" or "makes sense in context".

It makes me feel ill when I watch it and if that's "dark and mature" storytelling, then I want no part of it.

I don't get it. The plethora of death dealt by Hawks hand does not affect you in anyway but your "gratuitous" examples make you throw up? Do you know why you feel this way? Hawk is a one man decapitating, freezing, incinerating exploding montage of death all by himself. Its almost as if when given any context to a violent act you react like a human being as opposed to a mindless automaton.

Sooner or later gaming will devote it's effort areas of experience in addition to refining ways of killing things. (see games like tomb raider or LA Noir). Think about it. The only thing that has changed between Baldurs Gate and DAO is the"prettiness" of the combat mechanics.

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I doubt that Hawke really fought as many people as were supposedly depicted in the game, and I also doubt that all of Hawke's opponents were killed. It's not in the character of most of them to fight to the death, really.

[daaaav]

Xilizhra wrote...

Personally, I doubt that Hawke really fought as many people as were supposedly depicted in the game, and I also doubt that all of Hawke's opponents were killed. It's not in the character of most of them to fight to the death, really.

Well.. I doubt they are doing very well with no heads and their entrails covering half the block... Death and violence should have a damn impact on your psyche. It should be uncomfortable, frightening and horrific. Unlike sex and nudity which everybody (well most) has and is a normal part of civilised life!

[Xilizhra]

daaaav wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Personally, I doubt that Hawke really fought as many people as were supposedly depicted in the game, and I also doubt that all of Hawke's opponents were killed. It's not in the character of most of them to fight to the death, really.

Well.. I doubt they are doing very well with no heads and their entrails covering half the block... Death and violence should have a damn impact on your psyche. It should be uncomfortable, frightening and horrific. Unlike sex and nudity which everybody (well most) has and is a normal part of civilised life!

American priorities!
Anyway, are you playing with the unpatched version? After a patch or two, people stopped exploding most of the time. And we do see several instances where someone falls in combat only to still be alive in a cutscene.