230 réponses à ce sujet

[megabeast37215]

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

Ahh... good to know. Thanks.

[megabeast37215]

Stardusk wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

High Lord Angel of Vanderbilt did some testing the other night and came to the conclusion that Cain Mine spam is still best.

But... the Talon wasn't buffed the other night...

It was last night, GMT+1 and that is when he tested it, had the best results with Cain Mine spam.

There are more negatives to that strategy though. For everyone 1 Cain Mine... you're giving up 3 AP arrows... which = 3 dead Shielded Mooks... and then you have to get the enemies to either trip the mines (which is iffy at best when shooting them at the floor) or you have to spam 4-5 of them MINIMUM to get the required results. This exacerbates the thermal clip issue.

I feel the best option is to employ both tactics situationally.

[Apl_Juice]

peddroelmz wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

nope .. Acolyte will do more damage vs shields & barriers .. But vs health & armor shotgun bow combo would win .. And bosses have more armor than shields ..  Also bow can 1 shot plenty of shielded mooks without acolyte .. 

Alright. Thanks, game mechanics wizard 
Hopefully I can get my last 2 Wraith levels soon

[Cohen le Barbare]

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

So 25 multiplicative + 30 additve. Is this more than 50% multiplicative? (I stopped math a long time ago)

[NYG1991]

Might try running him with the wraith and omniblade tonight. I only played one game with the pistol combo against collectors. I was so impressed with that I never thought about the omni blade for heavier weapons.

It's still kinda strange looking at the killfeed seeing Me[omni bow] praetorian or scion.

[tfoltz]

Apl_J wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

NYG1991 wrote...

I like pistols with power and melee mods. That way you can throw a cyclonic mod on to increase survivability without sacrificing much damage. The power mod takes the place of the amp.

 


Not using shotgun omniblade is significant loss of damage .r. SIGNIFICANT

What if you supplement your bow with an Acolyte shot beforehand? Would a shotgun Omni-Blade be better than an Acolyte shot + Melee Stunner/Power mod?

This is what I did on plat matches yesterday and it worked perfectly for large scores. For bosses I used a hurricane and mines. I had used a wraith before and it was ok but not great, and you will want a phantom killer (gps, graal, scorpion, acolyte, etc.). GPS and scorpion will be next on the list of trial and error. I didn't use shredder on the armor arrows but will try it out.

[Chealec]

Graal + Omni-blade + Shock Trooper package should help out with grenade capacity and sg damage ... but it does weaken the base damage of the bow a little by not having something like Juggernaut Shields equipped.

I'm still specced into Conc Arrows at the moment (only 1 respec card left)... but I noticed that the base number of arrows fired per shot has been increased to 5 which means if you take conc 5b Chill and 6a Arrow Count you should, as I understand it, apply a 30% damage increase from all sources (and 60% movement speed reduction)? Does that sound right?

(not used it since the buff - was only on for a little bit last night)

Modifié par Chealec, 13 mars 2013 - 12:45 .

[KalilKareem]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

So 25 multiplicative + 30 additve. Is this more than 50% multiplicative? (I stopped math a long time ago)

No. The 30 additive is absolutely negicable. So its 25% buff, vs 50% buff. You choose

[Arctican]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

So 25 multiplicative + 30 additve. Is this more than 50% multiplicative? (I stopped math a long time ago)

Depends on the numbers because the two mods affect two different numbers. But guessing roughly, I'd say no. I'm not entirely sure since I don;t have all the numbers with me ATM and I'm no Peddro.

[Arctican]

KalilKareem wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

So 25 multiplicative + 30 additve. Is this more than 50% multiplicative? (I stopped math a long time ago)

No. The 30 additive is absolutely negicable. So its 25% buff, vs 50% buff. You choose

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Arctican wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

So 25 multiplicative + 30 additve. Is this more than 50% multiplicative? (I stopped math a long time ago)

No. The 30 additive is absolutely negicable. So its 25% buff, vs 50% buff. You choose

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

Why do that when I can just oneshot the Dragoon from across the map with my BOW?

[KalilKareem]

Arctican wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason the Shotgun Omni-Blade is best is b/c it provides a multiplicative melee damage modifier (this is huge vs bosses)... all the pistol stuff is additive IIRC.

So the Shotgun Blade will always be better than the Acolyte, even if you shoot first? Guess its time to switch over.

Pistol melee mod is also mutiplicaitve.

But, the Power Magnifier is not.

So 25 multiplicative + 30 additve. Is this more than 50% multiplicative? (I stopped math a long time ago)

No. The 30 additive is absolutely negicable. So its 25% buff, vs 50% buff. You choose

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

I was only talking about bow damage.

[megabeast37215]

Arctican wrote...

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

True... then that raises this question:

If you switch to your pistol/SMG when you lay down the Mines... then switch to your shotgun to use the Bow... do the Mines retain the damage bonus from the pistol/SMG while you are using the shotgun?

[NuclearTech76]

I haven't run him since the buff but AP arrows are looking a lot more attractive right now. Charge based weapons always synergized well with him IMO because of the dummy proof auto aim.

[NuclearTech76]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

True... then that raises this question:

If you switch to your pistol/SMG when you lay down the Mines... then switch to your shotgun to use the Bow... do the Mines retain the damage bonus from the pistol/SMG while you are using the shotgun?

I asked Cyonan that question and he didn't have a specific answer for it but felt the pistol would have to be the equipped weapon when it detonated. He had tested it on Recon mine and said that was the case in that instance but had not specifically tested it for Cain Mines.

[megabeast37215]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I haven't run him since the buff but AP arrows are looking a lot more attractive right now. Charge based weapons always synergized well with him IMO because of the dummy proof auto aim.

You liked him beforehand... you're gonna love him now

[koschwarz74]

does that rank 6 (arrow count) plus 1 arrow matter? the damage narida's builder shows should be per arrow.
plus 1 arrow doesn't seem to add too much to the whole.

[NuclearTech76]

megabeast37215 wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I haven't run him since the buff but AP arrows are looking a lot more attractive right now. Charge based weapons always synergized well with him IMO because of the dummy proof auto aim.

You liked him beforehand... you're gonna love him now

I haven't really messed with the bow evos that much though because the Cain mines were so good. Before I was going concussive because the force is what made them useful which I could still have without speccing out into full melee. Now I'm thinking AP might be the way to go since the damage is a little more and an extra shot also. Charge regen was pretty meh before as well but now looks fairly attractive. Which rounds were you running on him?

[megabeast37215]

koschwarz74 wrote...

does that rank 6 (arrow count) plus 1 arrow matter? the damage narida's builder shows should be per arrow.
plus 1 arrow doesn't seem to add too much to the whole.

Well.. you'd have to figure out how much each induvidual arrow does... factoring in all the Power Amps/Shotgun Blade/Fitness/etc. then multiply by 5 and 6 and see if the difference is enough to rock the boat. Also... it may or may not be the difference in being able to OSK shielded mooks/Dragoons/etc.

[Cohen le Barbare]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

True... then that raises this question:

If you switch to your pistol/SMG when you lay down the Mines... then switch to your shotgun to use the Bow... do the Mines retain the damage bonus from the pistol/SMG while you are using the shotgun?

OK, so I go with two weapons, a shotty with omni-blade, and a pistol with both.

[megabeast37215]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I haven't really messed with the bow evos that much though because the Cain mines were so good. Before I was going concussive because the force is what made them useful which I could still have without speccing out into full melee. Now I'm thinking AP might be the way to go since the damage is a little more and an extra shot also. Charge regen was pretty meh before as well but now looks fairly attractive. Which rounds were you running on him?

Disruptor... for shield stripping bosses exclusively. The Bow is now his main source of damage as far as I'm concerned... Cain Mine traps are bonus. I felt weapon use was redundant... since the Bow is basically a homing Javelin now.

[megabeast37215]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

True... then that raises this question:

If you switch to your pistol/SMG when you lay down the Mines... then switch to your shotgun to use the Bow... do the Mines retain the damage bonus from the pistol/SMG while you are using the shotgun?

OK, so I go with two weapons, a shotty with omni-blade, and a pistol with both.

Ohh... I don't actually know if that's optimal or not. I was just asking a question to some of the smarter folks...

[NYG1991]

I think the power damage bonus applies when they detonate not when you lay them. So if your shotgun is out when they walk over them you lose the bonus.

[Cohen le Barbare]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

True... then that raises this question:

If you switch to your pistol/SMG when you lay down the Mines... then switch to your shotgun to use the Bow... do the Mines retain the damage bonus from the pistol/SMG while you are using the shotgun?

OK, so I go with two weapons, a shotty with omni-blade, and a pistol with both.

Ohh... I don't actually know if that's optimal or not. I was just asking a question to some of the smarter folks...

I need to show off my eagle X and this character, unless i missed something, is not CD dependent. So Wraith + Eagle sounds about right. Let the smarter folks do the math indeed.

[Arctican]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

You underestimate the 30 additive's effect on the Cain Trip Mine. It's adds 810 damage vs armor, and with all the other bonuses added up, allows you to do up to 8k damage vs Armor per mine.

True... then that raises this question:

If you switch to your pistol/SMG when you lay down the Mines... then switch to your shotgun to use the Bow... do the Mines retain the damage bonus from the pistol/SMG while you are using the shotgun?

OK, so I go with two weapons, a shotty with omni-blade, and a pistol with both.

That's a good idea. When going on Mine spam spree, switch to your pistol. Would not hurt grenade regeneration rate much at all if you pick a light pistol.