245 réponses à ce sujet

[RyuGuitarFreak]

dreamgazer wrote...

Why so serious, Phil?

This.

SU37 wrote...

Yes, because obviously ONE DLC pack is going to shape the series' entire future.

Also this, and there's a lack of context within the article. The guy's trying to see too much on the fanservice and one year later send off.

[Mr.House]

Who is Phil and why should I care? How dare he even try to tell me the dlc is bad for me.

Modifié par Mr.House, 14 mars 2013 - 04:23 .

[Zjarcal]

Lawl

When I start giving a damn what some random idiot on the internet says I'll let you know.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

People on this board make me laugh at times.

[tevix]

Did he actually use the word "heretofore"?

Because if he did..he is immediately discredited.

Only people trying to fluff their standing and trying to sound more important and "in the know" than they are use words like that.

Talk with real words, then I'll listen.

[Reptilian Rob]

He brings up fair points and the pandering part is SPOT on.

[dreamgazer]

DinoSteve wrote...

People on this board make me laugh at times.

I know, right? Yeesh.

[Mr.House]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

He brings up fair points and the pandering part is SPOT on.

His good points are made moot when he said the dlc is bad for you.

[NeonFlux117]

What a tool this phil guy is. Citadel DLC was awesome and easily the best content of ME3.

I like how this guy's like 'Bioware's strength is their storytelling of grand narratives"- yeah sure bro, like the Catalyst and the ending. Those are so grand and awesome, lol.

It was fan service. And it was what we deserve and the series deserved. This (citadel DLC) should have been in the EC for destroy with high ems. Not the main mission but the party and reunion.

I stopped taking BioWare seriously, as serious writers of serious scifi after the EC. They missied the mark- big time with ME3's ending. So I don't think it's that bad that they did goofy stuff for the new DLC. It's about the characters of ME, which is the strength of the series. If you play the first 2 games multiple times- or have everyone survive the suicide mission then you get this.

Maybe this phil dude is a n00b to ME, and ME3 was his first experience with the series. Cause that article sounds like someone who is a N00b would write. What a joke.


BioWare, Citadel DLC was outstanding, don't let any press dweeb tell you different.

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 14 mars 2013 - 05:26 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Mr.House wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

He brings up fair points and the pandering part is SPOT on.

His good points are made moot when he said the dlc is bad for you.

Wait, really? Because a person who brings up multiple good points with evidence, based on OPINION is automatically condemmed because you don't agree with his assertion? 

Actually, I'm not suprised. BSN logic. 

[EnvyTB075]

Its great that a good half of the people in the thread are actually missing the point entirely.

[Shermos]

I do agree that the DLC overdid the cheese a bit. However, everything else Phil said is basically crap. He says himself that the DLC would have made much more sense if spread out over the game. Well guess what? You can do just that. Do the main story section just after the Cerberus coup attempt, meet up with characters in between missions and throw the party (which is obviously a "have fun now for tomorrow we all may die" party) right before going to Attack the Cerberus HQ.

There's nothing massively out of context in it. In fact, I was also concerned the whole thing would be an exercise in over the top fan-service while going against the themes of the rest of the game. It wasn't. It was indeed reasonably well done and if played right, fits in with the rest of the game just fine.

[BD Manchild]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Its great that a good half of the people in the thread are actually missing the point entirely.

So the usual modus operandi around here then?

[kumquats]

Please read: http://k004.kiwi6.co...23/the_book.pdf

Call me crazy, but maybe, this has more to do with the Citadel DLC, then some pissed off fans.

[Edit:] This is the whole thread:http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/10853184
IF someone is interested.

Modifié par kumquats, 14 mars 2013 - 11:10 .

[fainmaca]

I agree and disagree at the same time.

I agree that this could inspire a bad trend in game development, in that the people who see us as walking cash machines will assume that layers of cheese and the chance to bump uglies with our LI once more is all we're after. That they can pull whatever nonsense they like, and patch it over by inserting a comedy episode somewhere in the narrative. I also do think that Bioware were at least partly motivated to do this because they wanted to cover up the ending hurt. Not mend it, just hide it away. they want us to forget what went wrong and go back to blindly buying whatever.

At the same time, I also think that at least some of Citadel is a step in the right direction. The focus on characters and the care with which the DLC is crafted do have to be praised.

In the end, I think Citadel is many things. It was made by a lot of people, and I get the feeling that some of those people do want to fix things, that they regret ME3's core experience and want to make it up to us. At the same time, there are some on the team who are gravely offended by how badly their product went down with us (look at the veiled comments about us not understanding and needing clarity), and they took the obstinate route of impeding any attempt to bridge the newly formed player-developer divide.

[fainmaca]

Shermos wrote...

I do agree that the DLC overdid the cheese a bit. However, everything else Phil said is basically crap. He says himself that the DLC would have made much more sense if spread out over the game. Well guess what? You can do just that. Do the main story section just after the Cerberus coup attempt, meet up with characters in between missions and throw the party (which is obviously a "have fun now for tomorrow we all may die" party) right before going to Attack the Cerberus HQ.

There's nothing massively out of context in it. In fact, I was also concerned the whole thing would be an exercise in over the top fan-service while going against the themes of the rest of the game. It wasn't. It was indeed reasonably well done and if played right, fits in with the rest of the game just fine.

I think the point he was making here was that when you buy this DLC, you're just buying the jokes and cheese. He'd have been okay with all of this humor being spread throughout the core game as it shipped, because you were buying the game with the more serious plot underneath it, and all the cheesy would be a fun extra. As it is, we're buying a download that is basically 'put more funny in my game for me'. That's what he pointing out. There is nothing in that 4GB you download except for cheese and ham. And its sending a potentially damaging message to the development community.

[George Costanza]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Phil's an idiot. Citadel is a love letter from the developers to the players. It was great on nearly every level. All games and DLCs should be made with that much love. Its a great sign for the future.

Citadel was enjoyable. But great on every level? I wouldn't agree. It makes less than no sense in the context of the game, tonally it's completely different to the rest of the story and stands out like a sore thumb, and the main story mission is absolutely awful. I liked having a goodbye with my squad mates too, but people hailing this as the greatest thing ever in Mass Effect are delusional, and are only adding fuel to the "people were only pissed at the endings because they were sad" fire by praising an utterly nonsensical mission seemingly just because it provided some happy.

[HolyAvenger]

ME3 comes out. Fans complain about the grimdark. BioWare releases a DLC that alleviates some of the grimdark. Fans complain about the alleviation of grimdark.






...you cannot end the cycle BioWare.

[mopotter]

AlanC9 wrote...

mopotter wrote...
 And then I wanted Shepard to die in the fight to destory the reapers if things hadn't worked out as well as they could have. 

You mean a low-EMS ending?

yes,  I don't mind the ems that much and I don't mind dying with the low ems,  But I hated the gasping breath from a charred body as a survival ending.  The EC helped a little, very little, certainly not enough to replay it.. And I disliked the telepathic - I hear you Shepard - smile from whoever was putting Shepard plaque up.  Nowhere has it ever indicated any of them are telepathic. Put the damn plaque up and then have someone receive a message that they found Shepard.

As with any game, there are a number of things that were irritating, but the ending screenshot of the charred body taking a breath was the reason I only played 2 of my many many Shepards.  I'm playing the DLC now and so far enjoy it.  

[wright1978]

I think he's right on the money that 'Citadel' is an attempt to give a warm fuzzy farewell to Shep. At the end of a trilogy that's not such a terrible thing to do, even if part of the motivation is to try and retain future sales by leaving angry fans with a positive note to make them more open to the next venture.

As far as the ending is concerned the message i see and articulate is that it is/was a trainwreck.
As to whether the ending controversy will lead to happier endings/safer endings or just better delivered endings that make sense, well that ball is very much in Bioware's court. I'd like the delivery to be the focus and the happiness flavour to be reflective of player choices throughout the game.

Modifié par wright1978, 14 mars 2013 - 12:49 .

[Torrible]

Yeah, this DLC is an absolute failure because it pleased only 90% of those who bought it instead of 100%. A perfect DLC obviously exists and it's a worrying trend when a few nit-picking fans are still left dissatisfied. Detractors gonna detract. (Yes, I read the article and that's sarcasm.)

'Citadel' is what many of you asked for. For a year, (certain) fans have been demanding that Bioware pander to them and their wish fulfillment fantasies. Results of polls before and after the EC were hugely in favor of squad members/LI reunification over the removal of the Catalyst (I'm oversimplifying here but you get my point). The same fans have been arguing that artistic integrity is trivial and insignificant when compared to the importance of pandering to fans. Yeah but now we get this argument instead: "...citadel feels like a piece of fanfiction meant to serve fans’ goofy desires to get exactly what they want out of characters, whether those things are true to those characters or not."
So artistic integrity is important after all?

Many have also argued against the bleakness of the game and complained about the lack of squad interactions and humor. 'Citadel' addressed all that and more.

simfamSP wrote...

Or he doesn't understand that 3/4 of BioWare's/Mass Effect's core fanbase enjoys their companions a lot, sometimes even more than the rest of the game. They are the key to making us care about anything BioWare has to offer. I think if you were to go past the "consistent themes and lore" crap, you would see that most of the anti-ending fans hate the fact that we never get closure with our companions.

This. I think some of the ending-haters are delusional in the sense that they believe all other ending-haters share their same exact opinion, that the ending is bad mainly due to plot/narrative reasons. The polls (something the very same people give so much weight to) tell a totally different story. The core fanbase hate the lack of closure with their companions and LI and are less bothered by the ostensible narrative problems. 

P.S. The closest the author came to giving specific examples of how the characterization felt out of place was when he mentioned that Liara isn't a jokester. I strongly suggest that he replays LOTSB and bring Liara on ME3 missions.

Modifié par Torrible, 14 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[fainmaca]

simfamSP wrote...
Or he doesn't understand that 3/4 of BioWare's/Mass Effect's core fanbase enjoys their companions a lot, sometimes even more than the rest of the game. They are the key to making us care about anything BioWare has to offer. I think if you were to go past the "consistent themes and lore" crap, you would see that most of the anti-ending fans hate the fact that we never get closure with our companions.

There's also the fact that this was (as Cutlass Jack said) a symbolic goodbye to the franchise, which stood as tall as it did because of its characters. The cheese is intentional; the jokes are intentional, it was all there for the fun of it. There was never meant to be a final deep engaging mystery that would open up doors for NME, from the beggining we were told that this is a goodbye, anyone who expected something else is a fool.

Not the point I was getting at.

My concern and (I believe) this reviewer's concern, is that people in suits are going to see this response after such an overwhelmingly negative response to the previous offering, and are therefore going to make this kind of cheese-laden thing the be-all and end-all of gaming, which I strongly oppose. Video games could become increasingly sitcom-ified, and all hopes of video gaming befoming a legitimate artform like literature, theatre or even film making will die.

Video games have the potential to be a very powerful medium for storytelling, something I believe to be a crucial part of our culture. We've been telling stories since the first cave paintings were made. They're important to who we are. Now we have this immensely powerful tool at our disposal, machines that can generate a story for us which we control. Every day I can boot up my system and forge a new legend that could stay with me through my life. Stories are important.

Citadel throws out coherent storytelling in favour of shallow emotional gratification, rather than weaving that together with a worthwhile narrative. Devs shouldn't be allowed to think that they can pull whatever crap they like as long as there's gratuitous fanservice served up alongside it. Not if we want to see video games actually become a legitimate artform instead of the entertainment medium everyone else looks down on.

But I get the feeling I won't get anywhere voicing my opinions and concerns here. I'm just a bitter 'hater' whose opinion isn't worth crap.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Whine, whine and more whine.

It's the last DLC of a trilogy. Pretty much every single piece of DLC up to this point has been super serious, so just because they have a little fun with the last one, people start moaning.

Holy ****, this world is a sad sad place.