288 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenFalcon13]

Kinom001 wrote...

It's easy for someone to say "deal with it" when they're not the one being threatened with rape or worse. Empathy is a formidable means of understanding. People should try it. F*ck it, people should f'n use it.

Imagine if something like what was said to the lady in the video was said to your sister/mother/girlfriend/wife/daughter/niece? At what point are the words "deal with it" acceptable to say to them? My answer is never.

THIS.

Hit the nail on the head. I agree People need to put theirselves in "other's shoes"

[Original Twigman]

thewalrusx wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

If you can't take a bit of smack talk get off the internet.

I'm not excusing the perpetrators, but you need to realise people are going to talk a bit of smack online. Take it too seriously and it's your problem.

One of the presenters on the video said "if you are one of those guys that says "its part of the game" you are a jerk"

Honestly, this is some ignorant stuff. It isn't "a bit of smack talk" its much more than that.

Cultural insensitivity at its worst

Yeah, women are being raped and decapitated by machete wielding maniacs in the Congo Jungle every day...

...And you want me to take someone seriously who's upset that people posted swearey words on their youtube videos?

First world white women on the internet problems. Don't read comments, don't allow comments... it is NOT a big deal. Get over it. Complete anonymity gives people a license to behave like d*ckheads. Understanding this is the first crucial step towards immunising yourself to internet vitriol.

Keep in perspective exactly what is being said. She's not being attacked by crazed African militia men, she's being trolled on the internet by people who are posting stuff on her youtube video that they would never dream of saying to you in real life.

Keep some perspective on the matter please?

A sign of pettiness, excusing ****** poor behavior to justify your apathy because someone else, somewhere, has it worse, to which you will do nothing about either.

No, my point is I was raised by my parents to ignore people who talk BS. I extrapolate this to encompass the people who do so online too.

I didn't say their behaviour was appropriate. I said she needs thicker skin... People misbehave. In real life, on the internet... and the best answer is to ignore it. Respond to it, and show that it bothers you and you are giving the person exactly what they want.

I am apathetic towards people who clearly are much too naive for the world they live in.

I think what anomander is trying to say here is that if you are a good parent you do two things:
1) teach you kids not to bully others
2) teach your kids how to deal with bullying (interpert that how you will)

and I'd agree with him.

In california, you have to learn how to be defensive driver or risk serious injury or death because the bad drivers are plentiful. Now should I have to put up with bad drivers? No, but in the real world you need to learn how to. Thats not to say we do nothing to prevent and punish bad driving, we certainly do, but we also have to learn to live with the fact that there will always be bad drivers out there, so if you want to drive, you learn to drive defensively.

Right. I got what he said. The issue arises with not how you deal with it, as a man. Women live in a totally different world than we do.

To take your bad driving example, can you imagine the possible consquence of road rage between two men? Fist fight.

Can you imagine the consequence of road rage between a man and a women? A horrible beating.

You can tell women to "toughen up" all you want, but it further highlights an ignorance as to what women experience on a day to day basis, as being "tough" has hardly anything to do with it; and ironically, the women who do end up being "tough" are construed as "****es," "lesbians" " butch" etc. etc. its a lose/lose situation.

If you want to present a solution, then stand up, don't sit around and tell people what they should or shouldn't do. Stand up. Take action. Quit sitting on the couch waiting for change. Don't allow your actions to enable others to continue their destructive behavior. Allow your actions to empower others.

[Credit2team]

BryceH wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Agree with you completely Stikman, just didn't want to make a pyramid.

Ignoring that kind of behavior often doesn't work, for a number of reasons. The worst being that if you do nothing and take no action, you're kicking it down the road for other people to deal with later.

Do people in Africa have it bad? Obviously. What has that got to do with this situation? Nothing. I'd like to see a woman saying "it's fine to threaten to rape a woman over a video game, and I'm fine with it continuing to happen". No big shock that the "just ignore it" crew is made up of boys.

If I were being immature, I would throw a fit over the fact that you just made a generalization based on sex.

But I won't. Instead, I'll say this: Think about the fact that A. This is the internet and B. This is a game. Are empty threats made by random ****s in an anonymous community something that should be frightening the recipient?

Yes.  I'm all for thick skin - and your apparent lack of it - but the issue isn't "how likely are they to follow through on these threats".  The issue is "is what they're saying appropriate and/or likely to cause some kind of psychological harm".

I'd make the same argument if the bullying were related to race, sexual orientation or anything else.  When I refer to people who dismiss awareness of the issue and a willingness to act on it as "boys", that's because they generally are.  "Boys" don't care about the kind of world other people live in.  "Boys" don't care if someone gets called a **** because hey, it's the internet.  "Boys" are willing to look the other way and call on those who suffer from institutional and societal discrimination to "get over it".

Which I think is what you were doing.  Feel free to correct me.

actualy most companies have a strict policy on threats. If they include threats of physical harm then they are punished, threats of a verbal or abstract nature are more open to interpertation and are often ignored. 

as far as the law goes, "hate speech" depend on two things:
1) a clear threat of violence 
2) it has to be a real danger. as in it has to be deemed phyicaly possible and/or probable to carry out. Meaning that they may ignore your threat to someone who lives in russia if you live in the US, but if you live in neighboring cities its more of a real danger. 

[COLZ7R]

Afraid the idiots who do that type of **** have found the perfect stage for their "fun" in online games. Dont see it ever going away. Just dont understand how people can let it get to them though, my wife plays online sometimes and has had some moronic ****s say **** to her, a good put down followed by a mute and block always works

[RGB]

thewalrusx wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Agree with you completely Stikman, just didn't want to make a pyramid.

Ignoring that kind of behavior often doesn't work, for a number of reasons. The worst being that if you do nothing and take no action, you're kicking it down the road for other people to deal with later.

Do people in Africa have it bad? Obviously. What has that got to do with this situation? Nothing. I'd like to see a woman saying "it's fine to threaten to rape a woman over a video game, and I'm fine with it continuing to happen". No big shock that the "just ignore it" crew is made up of boys.

If I were being immature, I would throw a fit over the fact that you just made a generalization based on sex.

But I won't. Instead, I'll say this: Think about the fact that A. This is the internet and B. This is a game. Are empty threats made by random ****s in an anonymous community something that should be frightening the recipient?

Yes.  I'm all for thick skin - and your apparent lack of it - but the issue isn't "how likely are they to follow through on these threats".  The issue is "is what they're saying appropriate and/or likely to cause some kind of psychological harm".

I'd make the same argument if the bullying were related to race, sexual orientation or anything else.  When I refer to people who dismiss awareness of the issue and a willingness to act on it as "boys", that's because they generally are.  "Boys" don't care about the kind of world other people live in.  "Boys" don't care if someone gets called a **** because hey, it's the internet.  "Boys" are willing to look the other way and call on those who suffer from institutional and societal discrimination to "get over it".

Which I think is what you were doing.  Feel free to correct me.

actualy most companies have a strict policy on threats. If they include threats of physical harm then they are punished, threats of a verbal or abstract nature are more open to interpertation and are often ignored. 

as far as the law goes, "hate speech" depend on two things:
1) a clear threat of violence 
2) it has to be a real danger. as in it has to be deemed phyicaly possible and/or probable to carry out. Meaning that they may ignore your threat to someone who lives in russia if you live in the US, but if you live in neighboring cities its more of a real danger. 

You're talking about legal standards for a convinction in a court of law.  I'm talking about getting rid of people who abuse and bully through an online gaming service.  The principle extends to the way you deal with things in all walks of life.  Obviously the particulars are different.  Pointing out what the law defines as "hate speech" has about as much to do with this as suggesting that we should all shut up because people in Africa are dying.

[Grammaton Dryad]

Bullying is an intentional, repetitive action that includes a power-imbalance.

Someone being a dick doesn't make their jerk actions bullying, but it still doesn't justify it. Nor is excusing it by saying that bullying isn't the worst thing on the planet. Not everything has to be genocide to have someone stop it; those types of events could be avoided if people would defend and protect others rather than enabling it (passively or actively). The worst tragedies begin with "harmless" behavior (which often is bullying).

Now off to read the OP.

[Kalas Magnus]

I usually just ignore/mute them. Works very well.

[Lenimph]

Nope not playing Mass Effect 3 and I believe that's because the Mass Effect audience is more mature then the typical gaming audience.

That being said I have every other damn game I've played online on the 360.

Modifié par Lenimph, 14 mars 2013 - 12:08 .

[Credit2team]

BryceH wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Agree with you completely Stikman, just didn't want to make a pyramid.

Ignoring that kind of behavior often doesn't work, for a number of reasons. The worst being that if you do nothing and take no action, you're kicking it down the road for other people to deal with later.

Do people in Africa have it bad? Obviously. What has that got to do with this situation? Nothing. I'd like to see a woman saying "it's fine to threaten to rape a woman over a video game, and I'm fine with it continuing to happen". No big shock that the "just ignore it" crew is made up of boys.

If I were being immature, I would throw a fit over the fact that you just made a generalization based on sex.

But I won't. Instead, I'll say this: Think about the fact that A. This is the internet and B. This is a game. Are empty threats made by random ****s in an anonymous community something that should be frightening the recipient?

Yes.  I'm all for thick skin - and your apparent lack of it - but the issue isn't "how likely are they to follow through on these threats".  The issue is "is what they're saying appropriate and/or likely to cause some kind of psychological harm".

I'd make the same argument if the bullying were related to race, sexual orientation or anything else.  When I refer to people who dismiss awareness of the issue and a willingness to act on it as "boys", that's because they generally are.  "Boys" don't care about the kind of world other people live in.  "Boys" don't care if someone gets called a **** because hey, it's the internet.  "Boys" are willing to look the other way and call on those who suffer from institutional and societal discrimination to "get over it".

Which I think is what you were doing.  Feel free to correct me.

actualy most companies have a strict policy on threats. If they include threats of physical harm then they are punished, threats of a verbal or abstract nature are more open to interpertation and are often ignored. 

as far as the law goes, "hate speech" depend on two things:
1) a clear threat of violence 
2) it has to be a real danger. as in it has to be deemed phyicaly possible and/or probable to carry out. Meaning that they may ignore your threat to someone who lives in russia if you live in the US, but if you live in neighboring cities its more of a real danger. 

You're talking about legal standards for a convinction in a court of law.  I'm talking about getting rid of people who abuse and bully through an online gaming service.  The principle extends to the way you deal with things in all walks of life.  Obviously the particulars are different.  Pointing out what the law defines as "hate speech" has about as much to do with this as suggesting that we should all shut up because people in Africa are dying.

No, in my first part of my statement I'm talking about corperate policy, we play a Bioware and EA owned game and  we are subject to the terms and service we agreed to before installing/playing the game.  Bioware and EA both have plicies against play on player harrassment and are seponsible for enforcing that policy, but they often rely on the reports of players in order to act. 

Also, I have not made any comment asking anyone to "shut up" nor have I commented on any current events happening in Africa. 

[BeanieBack]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Have you encountered online bullying whilst playing Mass Effect 3?

I've been called some rude things but I can happily say that I've never received any crude messages. I consider myself lucky after watching that video and reading some of the stuff people say to those girls.

Besides those few incidents, the ME3 community is way better than other multiplayer games I've played.

Modifié par BeanieBack, 14 mars 2013 - 12:37 .

[Astronaughte]

It's a shame. The online community needs to grow up and be thankful for the miracle of online gaming. I don't know how many times I've heard the go-to homophobic "burns" on xbl (everyone knows what I mean). I also believe women, and children are biggest targets.

I've never heard a woman bullied online, but they usually make guys turn into cassanovas

that being said there is no way to monitor voice chat with out being invasive. And if you don't like what you hear don't wear a mic.

[Anders028]

Los Tacos Bueno wrote...

Seems like a typical day on Call of Duty.

[fulcrum290]

Annomander wrote...
Yeah, women are being raped and decapitated by machete wielding maniacs in the Congo Jungle every day...

...And you want me to take someone seriously who's upset that people posted swearey words on their youtube videos?

First world white women on the internet problems.

Yes i've problem when the a segment of men in  the western world acting like frenzy lunatics. What part of the word "civilized" they didn't understand.

No need to critized your own train wreck known as NHS since millions children are dying in Africa because of malaria right ?:innocent:

how many million of GBP did your goverment spended to protect Salman Rushdie because he made some muslims upset and how they generally responded to him. ?


As long is NOT happen to me i'm fine with it. SEE no inheritantly problem at all.

How come you don't support whiny white women plight to whine ? when the entire Western wolrd is whinnning about trivial things such as taxation, health care, education system or bad infrastructure.

I mean c.'mon. the avarage Somalians don't have highroad, hospital buildings or even a government, we should all be so greatful , :innocent:

[Draining Dragon]

GreenFalcon13 wrote...

Kinom001 wrote...

It's easy for someone to say "deal with it" when they're not the one being threatened with rape or worse. Empathy is a formidable means of understanding. People should try it. F*ck it, people should f'n use it.

Imagine if something like what was said to the lady in the video was said to your sister/mother/girlfriend/wife/daughter/niece? At what point are the words "deal with it" acceptable to say to them? My answer is never.

THIS.

Hit the nail on the head. I agree People need to put theirselves in "other's shoes"

I'm happy to say that none of the people I associate with are so spineless.

Words only have as much power as you give them. You can't be harmed by somebody saying "hhhhhur ur dur i iz gon rapez u" unless you choose to let it harm you.

Modifié par Draining Dragon, 14 mars 2013 - 12:14 .

[RGB]

thewalrusx wrote...

BryceH wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Agree with you completely Stikman, just didn't want to make a pyramid.

Ignoring that kind of behavior often doesn't work, for a number of reasons. The worst being that if you do nothing and take no action, you're kicking it down the road for other people to deal with later.

Do people in Africa have it bad? Obviously. What has that got to do with this situation? Nothing. I'd like to see a woman saying "it's fine to threaten to rape a woman over a video game, and I'm fine with it continuing to happen". No big shock that the "just ignore it" crew is made up of boys.

If I were being immature, I would throw a fit over the fact that you just made a generalization based on sex.

But I won't. Instead, I'll say this: Think about the fact that A. This is the internet and B. This is a game. Are empty threats made by random ****s in an anonymous community something that should be frightening the recipient?

Yes.  I'm all for thick skin - and your apparent lack of it - but the issue isn't "how likely are they to follow through on these threats".  The issue is "is what they're saying appropriate and/or likely to cause some kind of psychological harm".

I'd make the same argument if the bullying were related to race, sexual orientation or anything else.  When I refer to people who dismiss awareness of the issue and a willingness to act on it as "boys", that's because they generally are.  "Boys" don't care about the kind of world other people live in.  "Boys" don't care if someone gets called a **** because hey, it's the internet.  "Boys" are willing to look the other way and call on those who suffer from institutional and societal discrimination to "get over it".

Which I think is what you were doing.  Feel free to correct me.

actualy most companies have a strict policy on threats. If they include threats of physical harm then they are punished, threats of a verbal or abstract nature are more open to interpertation and are often ignored. 

as far as the law goes, "hate speech" depend on two things:
1) a clear threat of violence 
2) it has to be a real danger. as in it has to be deemed phyicaly possible and/or probable to carry out. Meaning that they may ignore your threat to someone who lives in russia if you live in the US, but if you live in neighboring cities its more of a real danger. 

You're talking about legal standards for a convinction in a court of law.  I'm talking about getting rid of people who abuse and bully through an online gaming service.  The principle extends to the way you deal with things in all walks of life.  Obviously the particulars are different.  Pointing out what the law defines as "hate speech" has about as much to do with this as suggesting that we should all shut up because people in Africa are dying.

No, in my first part of my statement I'm talking about corperate policy, we play a Bioware and EA owned game and  we are subject to the terms and service we agreed to before installing/playing the game.  Bioware and EA both have plicies against play on player harrassment and are seponsible for enforcing that policy, but they often rely on the reports of players in order to act. 

Also, I have not made any comment asking anyone to "shut up" nor have I commented on any current events happening in Africa. 

Read the whole thread.  Someone else suggested that we should pay less attention to the issue because of things happening in Africa.  Not blaming you for that statement, merely using it to illustrate my point.

We play on either Origin, Sony Entertainment, or Microsoft's service first and foremost.  For the Playstation, at least, reporting users occurs through Sony and not through EA/Bioware.  Second, while you are accurate in pointing out that some companies give more weight to these reports than others, I'm not sure what your point is.  Are you arguing that they should be ignored because nothing will be done?  Are you suggesting that the companies themselves don't care, and there should be a letter writing campaign?  Just don't understand why you brought that information up.

[Credit2team]

Original Stikman wrote...

[snip]

Right. I got what he said. The issue arises with not how you deal with it, as a man. Women live in a totally different world than we do.

To take your bad driving example, can you imagine the possible consquence of road rage between two men? Fist fight.

Can you imagine the consequence of road rage between a man and a women? A horrible beating.

You can tell women to "toughen up" all you want, but it further highlights an ignorance as to what women experience on a day to day basis, as being "tough" has hardly anything to do with it; and ironically, the women who do end up being "tough" are construed as "****es," "lesbians" " butch" etc. etc. its a lose/lose situation.

If you want to present a solution, then stand up, don't sit around and tell people what they should or shouldn't do. Stand up. Take action. Quit sitting on the couch waiting for change. Don't allow your actions to enable others to continue their destructive behavior. Allow your actions to empower others.

I agree with the emotion and sediment of your argument but not all of the content. I have never suggested that anyone "toughen up". What I have suggested is that people learn inteligient and cautious ways of dealing with these problems so they can be avoided whenever possible. True we can all do something, but we should  put all the responsibility on any one person. I am for progressive reform and action but I am also for realizing that there will never be a perfect world so we must also learn how to deal with the worlds inperfections if we are to live in it. 

Modifié par thewalrusx, 14 mars 2013 - 12:15 .

[Auintus]

It depends on how much allowance you want to give an authority. I think it'd be perfectly reasonable for a player to be able to report another. The reported individual would then be put under observation for a while. If nothing comes out of it, whatever. If the abuse is constant and crosses the line, they can take action.

Just remember that you could be on the receiving end of this surveillance. Players would have to accept that degree of monitoring. I doubt it will happen, but that's my idea.

[Draining Dragon]

"Deal with it" is not the children's approach to anything. In fact, it's the adult approach to life. Children have other people solving their problems.

Complaining about other people being mean doesn't get you anywhere. What does get you somewhere is learning to not give a crap if people are mean.

It's at these times that trolling can be used defensively.

No, I'm serious. Defensive trolling is a thing.

Modifié par Draining Dragon, 14 mars 2013 - 12:19 .

[Credit2team]

BryceH wrote...

Read the whole thread.  Someone else suggested that we should pay less attention to the issue because of things happening in Africa.  Not blaming you for that statement, merely using it to illustrate my point.

We play on either Origin, Sony Entertainment, or Microsoft's service first and foremost.  For the Playstation, at least, reporting users occurs through Sony and not through EA/Bioware.  Second, while you are accurate in pointing out that some companies give more weight to these reports than others, I'm not sure what your point is.  Are you arguing that they should be ignored because nothing will be done?  Are you suggesting that the companies themselves don't care, and there should be a letter writing campaign?  Just don't understand why you brought that information up.

ok. I'm not trying to diagree or agree or make a persuasive argument through presenting the facts, just trying to inform the audience in general 

Modifié par thewalrusx, 14 mars 2013 - 12:19 .

[kobayashi-maru]

I hated using mic but have done so during ME3 and have to say everyone bar a couple have been pleasant, friendly and helpful. As for bad incidents the first happened really early on and was pretty much some creepy college guy trying to flirt badly with female gamer. Another was last week and involved some guy blaming weapon for his bad game and moaning about kill stealing. And the usual gay slurs thrown a couple of games - though only twice and I pretty much play pug games, so me3 definetly has better class of people.

Modifié par kobayashi-maru, 14 mars 2013 - 12:23 .

[Uchimura]

Watched a little bit. I was expecting it to be about some women who just play games with mics, but instead the woman is doing some report on gender bias and whatnot and exploring what's equivalent to youtube and 4chan comments. Takes it down a different path.

[RGB]

Draining Dragon wrote...

"Deal with it" is not the children's approach to anything. In fact, it's the adult approach to life. Children have other people solving their problems.

Complaining about other people being mean doesn't get you anywhere. What does get you somewhere is learning to not give a crap if people are mean.

What some people are talking about here - myself included - is being proactive and working to make things better.  What you're talking about is ignoring things and trying not to think about them.  If that isn't childish and naive, I don't know what is.

[Original Twigman]

Draining Dragon wrote...

"Deal with it" is not the children's approach to anything. In fact, it's the adult approach to life. Children have other people solving their problems.

Complaining about other people being mean doesn't get you anywhere. What does get you somewhere is learning to not give a crap if people are mean.

It's at these times that trolling can be used defensively.

No, I'm serious. Defensive trolling is a thing.

I wonder how low you will sink before you realize you are totally in the dark on your "facts of life"

[Draining Dragon]

BryceH wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

"Deal with it" is not the children's approach to anything. In fact, it's the adult approach to life. Children have other people solving their problems.

Complaining about other people being mean doesn't get you anywhere. What does get you somewhere is learning to not give a crap if people are mean.

What some people are talking about here - myself included - is being proactive and working to make things better.  What you're talking about is ignoring things and trying not to think about them.  If that isn't childish and naive, I don't know what is.

Considering that this is a psychological problem, not thinking about it actually solves the issue.

[Yenneffer]

Frankly, I kinda wish female games would stop being treated as something special. From both ends of the spectrum. The TGFO, back to the kitchen and such comments got old ages ago. On the other hand, when I saw that a local popular game magazine started releasing some special for women which had a pink cover and talked about The Sims and dress up games I facepalmed so hard I nearly broke my nose.