288 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk]

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

[No, my point is I was raised by my parents to ignore people who talk BS. I extrapolate this to encompass the people who do so online too.

I didn't say their behaviour was appropriate. I said she needs thicker skin... People misbehave. In real life, on the internet... and the best answer is to ignore it. Respond to it, and show that it bothers you and you are giving the person exactly what they want.

I am apathetic towards people who clearly are much to naiive for the world they live in.

That might work for you, and your hard man feelings, but this is a sign that you have little understanding of what the world of a woman looks like.

No way in hell will i ever understand what its like to view the world from a woman's eyes. But you just can't "shake" these things off when A) you are hormonally desinged to be sensitive to relationships, grow up in a society where you are the weaker sex (physically), C) have to stay alert at all times at night and alone, even if you are just walking from your work to your car, and much, much more.

I mean, alone, the percentage of women who are sexually abused as children are astronimcally higher than men... i mean... 1 in 6 women have been a victim to attempted or enacted rape... ONE in SIX...

Its not about how tough you are, its about the inherent problems this society has in their views on women

Fabricated statistic with no bearing in reality, you like many probably just heard it and decided to cite it. Also BS about women more likely being sexually abused as children.

You are an ignorant as hell

read up
http://www.rainn.org...assault-victims

there are tons of other research studies that corroborate these findings

You use a feminist propaganda organisation to back up your claim? Tons of research, like what? The pay gap? Also refuted a while back.

[Yenneffer]

I am used to people acting like asses on the internet, trolling, calling names and such. I don't let that get to me. However, outright rape/murder threats are a different thing. I'm happy to say that I've never encountered this so far, but if I did, I think I couldn't help but feel a little uncomfortable. That kind of thing should be enough to get people permabanned.

[deafglasses]

BryceH wrote...

I can't tell if this thread is just stuffed full of trolls or if people really don't give a crap about what happens to others, so long as they're all right.

It's in our human nature to not give a crap about others.

[Draining Dragon]

Original Stikman wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

BryceH wrote...

I can't tell if this thread is just stuffed full of trolls or if people really don't give a crap about what happens to others, so long as they're all right.

I can't tell if this thread is just stuffed full of idealists and mindless optimists or if people really don't know how the world works.

Polluted with a group of men who aren't able to see the world outside of their own genitalia

Okay, now that male genitalia has entered the conversation, I'll be going.

[lazysundae]

pistolols wrote...

painforest wrote...

pistolols wrote...

the woman in the OP youtube clip baits people by starting a stupid feminist protest of objectification of women in video games and is surprised when she attracts some trolls?

That is so true. Women who bait people by having different opinions than them deserve to be raped to death. Actually, any girl who talks on mic in a video game deserves to be raped to death. There, video game community. I just solved all your problems. 

i'm not saying that.  I'm not making the "she dressed like a ho so she was asking for it" argument.  I just don't think she should have been so surprised about attracting trolls when creating a controversial debate about something that isn't even a big deal to anyone other than outright feminists.

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

There's nothing inherently wrong with pointing out that women character are of a certain "type" in games, and media in general.  Her arguments in her Kickstarter video were admittedly not brilliant, but it's absolutely fair to say "women have come so far in real life, why haven't they in games?".

There is something inherently wrong with the group of people that decided trolling harassing and abusing her was an appropriate way to express their disagreement with her choice of topic, before she had even had the opportunity to present her thoughts on the topic.

[Original Twigman]

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

[No, my point is I was raised by my parents to ignore people who talk BS. I extrapolate this to encompass the people who do so online too.

I didn't say their behaviour was appropriate. I said she needs thicker skin... People misbehave. In real life, on the internet... and the best answer is to ignore it. Respond to it, and show that it bothers you and you are giving the person exactly what they want.

I am apathetic towards people who clearly are much to naiive for the world they live in.

That might work for you, and your hard man feelings, but this is a sign that you have little understanding of what the world of a woman looks like.

No way in hell will i ever understand what its like to view the world from a woman's eyes. But you just can't "shake" these things off when A) you are hormonally desinged to be sensitive to relationships, grow up in a society where you are the weaker sex (physically), C) have to stay alert at all times at night and alone, even if you are just walking from your work to your car, and much, much more.

I mean, alone, the percentage of women who are sexually abused as children are astronimcally higher than men... i mean... 1 in 6 women have been a victim to attempted or enacted rape... ONE in SIX...

Its not about how tough you are, its about the inherent problems this society has in their views on women

Fabricated statistic with no bearing in reality, you like many probably just heard it and decided to cite it. Also BS about women more likely being sexually abused as children.

You are an ignorant as hell

read up
http://www.rainn.org...assault-victims

there are tons of other research studies that corroborate these findings

You use a feminist propaganda organisation to back up your claim? Tons of research, like what? The pay gap? Also refuted a while back.

http://www.nytimes.c...sault.html?_r=0

I'm sorry i didn't realize that the CDC was biased. or the bureau of justice...

gtfo

Modifié par Original Stikman, 14 mars 2013 - 12:55 .

[pistolols]

Yenneffer wrote...

I am used to people acting like asses on the internet, trolling, calling names and such. I don't let that get to me. However, outright rape/murder threats are a different thing. I'm happy to say that I've never encountered this so far, but if I did, I think I couldn't help but feel a little uncomfortable. That kind of thing should be enough to get people permabanned.

yeah rape/murder threats are certainly shocking but that is why they do it, the shock value.  Most the time i'm sure there is never any rreal "threat".  Trolls will be trolls.  Personally i don't think women have it any worse than men do online... i have been picked on quite a bit in my online career.  I can't tell you how many times i've been told i was gay or that i don't even lift.

[ElementL09]

Someone bad mouthing you? Mute them.
Someone sending harassing messages? Block Communications.

The tools are there for people to use when dealing with people who are annoying or harassing individuals for the dumbest reasons.

Now I game mainly on Xbox and I don't see the fuss about bullying in video games when these tools are so blantently apparent and with party-chat widespread as it is, its rare enough to have people talk in games.

I don't get how people can get worked up over what another person says over the internet when you can not only ignore them, but mute them, block communications and even report them or submit negative feedback. A random person who doesn't know anything shouldn't ruin my or anyone elses day by the absurb comments they make.

Bullying itself has become a bigger issue then what it was, what the heck happened to people? What happened toward standing up for yourself? Bullying over Video games is just ridiculous. Its a damn video game, why should you even care about what random person says about you?

Its like what Foxtrot said, I can't understand this recent fascination with bullying.

[Stardusk]

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

[No, my point is I was raised by my parents to ignore people who talk BS. I extrapolate this to encompass the people who do so online too.

I didn't say their behaviour was appropriate. I said she needs thicker skin... People misbehave. In real life, on the internet... and the best answer is to ignore it. Respond to it, and show that it bothers you and you are giving the person exactly what they want.

I am apathetic towards people who clearly are much to naiive for the world they live in.

That might work for you, and your hard man feelings, but this is a sign that you have little understanding of what the world of a woman looks like.

No way in hell will i ever understand what its like to view the world from a woman's eyes. But you just can't "shake" these things off when A) you are hormonally desinged to be sensitive to relationships, grow up in a society where you are the weaker sex (physically), C) have to stay alert at all times at night and alone, even if you are just walking from your work to your car, and much, much more.

I mean, alone, the percentage of women who are sexually abused as children are astronimcally higher than men... i mean... 1 in 6 women have been a victim to attempted or enacted rape... ONE in SIX...

Its not about how tough you are, its about the inherent problems this society has in their views on women

Fabricated statistic with no bearing in reality, you like many probably just heard it and decided to cite it. Also BS about women more likely being sexually abused as children.

You are an ignorant as hell

read up
http://www.rainn.org...assault-victims

there are tons of other research studies that corroborate these findings

You use a feminist propaganda organisation to back up your claim? Tons of research, like what? The pay gap? Also refuted a while back.

http://www.nytimes.c...sault.html?_r=0

I'm sorry i didn't realize that the CDC was biased. or that the bureau of justice...

gtfo

Well, do you think VAWA was biased? or the divorce court system? all run by the government. Look at the percentages of men who were raped in Rwanda during the massacre, nearly the same as women, virtually none received aid in contrast to women. I guess you will believe anything the government tells you. Do you think that men commit most domestic violence as well? That is the narrative but it is not true.

[Grammaton Dryad]

Stikman, you're my hero. Thanks for not being a prejudiced jackass.

[anathesnail]

In my opinion women are indeed the victims. You know why? Because they like to play the victim, the damsel in distress waiting for her prince to rescue her or whatever. I'm not saying it's aalways like this, but most of the time it is. For a woman who asks for donations online (I'm talking about the video in the OP right now) she certainly doesn't seem to know the definition of a troll. I don't like trolling in general but things like this video is what makes people troll, they get all the attention they need to fill their tiny little ego. Yes discrimination towards women exists in gaming, is it thaaat bad? I don't think so, I feel more psychologically affected by real life things than gaming, gaming is what gets me to relax at the end of the day.
And yes I'm a woman, and about the rape threats and etc: ****s will be ****s. They can't rape you through the internet so if you don't go around giving away your information without thinking about your security at all I think you'll be fine. Try being followed by a creep an entire year and then tell me how bad it is to hear a guy online say "show me your boobs"

[Yenneffer]

pistolols wrote...

Yenneffer wrote...

I am used to people acting like asses on the internet, trolling, calling names and such. I don't let that get to me. However, outright rape/murder threats are a different thing. I'm happy to say that I've never encountered this so far, but if I did, I think I couldn't help but feel a little uncomfortable. That kind of thing should be enough to get people permabanned.

yeah rape/murder threats are certainly shocking but that is why they do it, the shock value.  Most the time i'm sure there is never any rreal "threat".  Trolls will be trolls.  Personally i don't think women have it any worse than men do online... i have been picked on quite a bit in my online career.  I can't tell you how many times i've been told i was gay or that i don't even lift.

I agree that there shouldn't be a difference whether such threat was made to a man or woman. It should get the person banned either way. Yes, trolls will be trolls. But they should learn that some things are off-limts, whether they mean them or not.

[Original Twigman]

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

[No, my point is I was raised by my parents to ignore people who talk BS. I extrapolate this to encompass the people who do so online too.

I didn't say their behaviour was appropriate. I said she needs thicker skin... People misbehave. In real life, on the internet... and the best answer is to ignore it. Respond to it, and show that it bothers you and you are giving the person exactly what they want.

I am apathetic towards people who clearly are much to naiive for the world they live in.

That might work for you, and your hard man feelings, but this is a sign that you have little understanding of what the world of a woman looks like.

No way in hell will i ever understand what its like to view the world from a woman's eyes. But you just can't "shake" these things off when A) you are hormonally desinged to be sensitive to relationships, grow up in a society where you are the weaker sex (physically), C) have to stay alert at all times at night and alone, even if you are just walking from your work to your car, and much, much more.

I mean, alone, the percentage of women who are sexually abused as children are astronimcally higher than men... i mean... 1 in 6 women have been a victim to attempted or enacted rape... ONE in SIX...

Its not about how tough you are, its about the inherent problems this society has in their views on women

Fabricated statistic with no bearing in reality, you like many probably just heard it and decided to cite it. Also BS about women more likely being sexually abused as children.

You are an ignorant as hell

read up
http://www.rainn.org...assault-victims

there are tons of other research studies that corroborate these findings

You use a feminist propaganda organisation to back up your claim? Tons of research, like what? The pay gap? Also refuted a while back.

http://www.nytimes.c...sault.html?_r=0

I'm sorry i didn't realize that the CDC was biased. or that the bureau of justice...

gtfo

Well, do you think VAWA was biased? or the divorce court system? all run by the government. Look at the percentages of men who were raped in Rwanda during the massacre, nearly the same as women, virtually none received aid in contrast to women. I guess you will believe anything the government tells you. Do you think that men commit most domestic violence as well? That is the narrative but it is not true.

You provide non sequitors to the main point, bringing silly notions of government lies in order to take away the credibility of a studies that show women are drastically at more risk to be sexually assaulted than men.

Great, you are now both poor in your form as one who argues and poor in ethical constitution.

[Draining Dragon]

Grammaton Dryad wrote...

Stikman, you're my hero. Thanks for not being a prejudiced jackass.

Dat passive aggressive

[Pifase]

I have never seen online bullying or sexism while playing wow for years or ME3 MP - but it seems to exist. One the guild's leader I was in was a young woman, she did her duties well and boys/men more like competed about her attention than harrassed her. I did play in guild where middle age was around 30+, people had husband/wives and kids so I quess they just got grow out of that kind of behavior. Had a few drunk raiders but they just passed out somewhere in the raid and we replaced them.

These younger/angry/lonely men will realize some day that calling someone a **** or **** on the internet is not exactly the most challenging or heroic thing to do. It's just f***ing sad and pathetic. I myself tell mild misogynist or misandronist jokes sometimes too but there is a line I don't cross.

I presume there are lots of men who actually think that researcher doing a study is a threat to them or to the games or to the gaming community. There seem to be misunderstanding that Anita Sarkesian and others are not going to lecture them, nag about something etc. but they will report their findings.

It's just so easy to make assault over internet and idiotic group mentality is one factor in this. Dumbasses competing who can make the most creepy threats - even if they are just extreme jokes and black humor. Video like the OP posted are needed and maybe people will learn someday.

P.s. I have had a few sexual slurs from women while playing different games but I don't really care if someone calls me a gay, ******, idiot or **** or wants to f*ck my brains out. I can take that and just laugh to their pathetic insult attempts and sexists jokes. But If any man/woman ever send me a message like: "I will f*ck you with a knife" or " I will rape your family". I will call a police, gladly take them to the court and make them pay.

Like Thane said: "The Universe is a dark place, I'm trying to make it a little brighter before I die."

[Drunkencelt]

Original Stikman wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

Drunkencelt wrote...

There is a lack of accountability in the world. Society also reinforces the behavior of the proverbial excrement port.

A long time ago when you acted like an ass someone would come along and punch you in the face till you learned some manners. Society does not promote such behavior, and protects people with massive attitude problems.

Being online further emboldens people with these behavioral traits. They feel safe to act this way under the protection of a computer screen.

Grow some thick skin. Society also does not promote this. It teaches you to cry, whine, and generally think the world is suppose to be fair and your the center of it.

You will meet rude people. You can allow them to get to you or you can shrug it off and enjoy your life regardless of the mindless idiots trying to drag you down to there level of depression, anger, and lonelyness.

Well said, good sir.

Now go away. Your intelligent opinion is invalid because potatoes.

You wouldn't know what an intelligent opinion was if you read it off a screen.

This is wrought with male-centered preconceptions on what women should do on women-centered issues.

You have no clue. Have fun in an emotionally divorced relationship

Actually my post was about online bullying and people's behavior in general. I did not watch the OP's video. I do not care too engage in a pointless sensationalized debate about men versus women.

[N7-RedFox]

Abraham_uk wrote...

 I have been lucky. Very lucky.

I have never been bulled whilst playing any online video game.

Sure I've had the occasional kick from a lobby, but that's not bullying. It's just plain annoying.


Watch this video.

Have you encountered online bullying whilst playing Mass Effect 3?
Note that whilst females often get the worst of the bullying, males can be on the recieving end too.

Feel free to discuss.

*Watches video*

*Sees Xbox gamers*

*sighs*

[ElementL09]

BryceH wrote...

I can't tell if this thread is just stuffed full of trolls or if people really don't give a crap about what happens to others, so long as they're all right.

I have empathy towards others.  I can understand that not everyone has "thick skin".  But people eventually need to "grow up" and not give a damn about what others say about them, especially when its over electronic media.

[Stardusk]

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Annomander wrote...

[No, my point is I was raised by my parents to ignore people who talk BS. I extrapolate this to encompass the people who do so online too.

I didn't say their behaviour was appropriate. I said she needs thicker skin... People misbehave. In real life, on the internet... and the best answer is to ignore it. Respond to it, and show that it bothers you and you are giving the person exactly what they want.

I am apathetic towards people who clearly are much to naiive for the world they live in.

That might work for you, and your hard man feelings, but this is a sign that you have little understanding of what the world of a woman looks like.

No way in hell will i ever understand what its like to view the world from a woman's eyes. But you just can't "shake" these things off when A) you are hormonally desinged to be sensitive to relationships, grow up in a society where you are the weaker sex (physically), C) have to stay alert at all times at night and alone, even if you are just walking from your work to your car, and much, much more.

I mean, alone, the percentage of women who are sexually abused as children are astronimcally higher than men... i mean... 1 in 6 women have been a victim to attempted or enacted rape... ONE in SIX...

Its not about how tough you are, its about the inherent problems this society has in their views on women

Fabricated statistic with no bearing in reality, you like many probably just heard it and decided to cite it. Also BS about women more likely being sexually abused as children.

You are an ignorant as hell

read up
http://www.rainn.org...assault-victims

there are tons of other research studies that corroborate these findings

You use a feminist propaganda organisation to back up your claim? Tons of research, like what? The pay gap? Also refuted a while back.

http://www.nytimes.c...sault.html?_r=0

I'm sorry i didn't realize that the CDC was biased. or that the bureau of justice...

gtfo

Well, do you think VAWA was biased? or the divorce court system? all run by the government. Look at the percentages of men who were raped in Rwanda during the massacre, nearly the same as women, virtually none received aid in contrast to women. I guess you will believe anything the government tells you. Do you think that men commit most domestic violence as well? That is the narrative but it is not true.

You provide non sequitors to the main point, bringing silly notions of government lies in order to take away the credibility of a studies that show women are drastically at more risk to be sexually assaulted than men.

Great, you are now both poor in your form as one who argues and poor in ethical constitution.

Nope, VAWA is based on the premise that women are exclusively the victims of domestic violence, then it is basiclaly 50/50, yet men are afforded no such protection. Ask yourself why, women vote more than men, politicians buy their votes by doing things like VAWA.

Listen to Erin Pizzey.

[silencekills]

N7-RedFox wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

 I have been lucky. Very lucky.

I have never been bulled whilst playing any online video game.

Sure I've had the occasional kick from a lobby, but that's not bullying. It's just plain annoying.


Watch this video.

Have you encountered online bullying whilst playing Mass Effect 3?
Note that whilst females often get the worst of the bullying, males can be on the recieving end too.

Feel free to discuss.

*Watches video*

*Sees Xbox gamers*

*sighs*

Did you see the bit where Fem Shep was shown in a little slideshow of characters that were "damsels in distress"? 

How does that work? That's all I want to know from this thread. I care not for the talks of men, women, and trolls.

[Draining Dragon]

Original Stikman wrote...

snip

You do know that the survey:

A. Could have been taken among people more likely to have suffered abuse instead of an even distribution
B. Was published by pro-feminists
C. Assumes total honesty, despite the fact that the subjects have nothing to lose from lying and might lie out of bitterness towards past partners

[painforest]

Grammaton Dryad wrote...

Stikman, you're my hero. Thanks for not being a prejudiced jackass.

QFT

[RavenousBear]

Nope I have not been bullied and I am glad of it. Although I find PUGs a bit boring with silence, I much prefer the silence over harassing/stupid behavior. Keeping a low profile and being silent works for me (I talk to friends though). If people knew of my condition/"disability" then things would be different. That would open up a can of worms....

[Jhanus]

ElementL09 wrote...

Its like what Foxtrot said, I can't understand this recent fascination with bullying.

My first 15 years were pretty much all bullying, abuse, and sexual abuse. But it wasn't from people at school or anything else, it was by my own family. And even if it weren't for that, I've always been a super sensitive person.

I've got a rather low level of tolerance for things directed at me, for reasons I can only assume are pretty permanent. And I can also understand the things directed at others negatively affecting them. But regardless of the severity and the "acceptability" of someone's comments affecting another person, making the generalization that the target is being weak-skinned is a very bad stance to have.

Sure, some people make way more out of small things than they should (standing up does a lot for you in a lot of ways), but not everyone really can. They don't have to be weak to be affected by the things that someone says about them, even online, but some people really are weak.

There are so many extra aspects that affect stuff like this, like someone closeted via fear, victims of actual abuse, etc. Saying people need to get thicker skin is straight-up disrespectful to actual victims who have a legitemate reason to take such comments personally and negatively.

[Stardusk]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

snip

You do know that the survey:

A. Could have been taken among people more likely to have suffered abuse instead of an even distribution
B. Was published by pro-feminists
C. Assumes total honesty, despite the fact that the subjects have nothing to lose from lying and might lie out of bitterness towards past partners

Stop talking sense!