252 réponses à ce sujet

[BeatoSama]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

ok let me explain my point, i would think women armor (the chest piece) would be made maybe a little more roomy to compensate for the "girls" so it would be practical and more comfortable for them.

Making it more roomy (as in making it a bit more convex) is fine though not necessary as unless you have gigantic boobs they should flatten without a problem. Making individual boob pockets though is absolutely unnessecary and is even dangerous.

Modifié par BeatoSama, 14 mars 2013 - 04:53 .

[unbentbuzzkill]

@beatosama

exactly what I was thinking, but what might be comfortable for one person might not be for the next so I would think the armor would have been made to spec for the user.

[CaptainBlackGold]

OK, while not having a dog in this fight, I still question the assertion that "boob armor" is dangerous/unsafe (not to mention that somehow it is inherently ridiculous). I read the short piece mentioned earlier claiming that "protuberances" cause an attacking weapon to hit the sternum, thus inflicting lethal damage. I remain unconvinced.

What is the difference between a flat (or slightly domed) surface and one with "protuberances" in terms of tensile strength and shock absorbtion? Has anyone ever actually done any real tests on this? As I look at the two styles, the "boob armor" has two sloped projections that would seem to be more likely to be hit in combat first - deflecting energy away from the rest of the armor. It would then seem likely that the bow that actually hit the sternum would have lost significant energy before striking the mid point.

So the practicality argument seems unproven at this time. The main reason again, seems to be that some people think "boob armor" is bad because it sexualizes female characters.

Personally, I hope DA3 has really nice, attractive and feminine looking armor which includes showcasing one of the most distinctive differences between the genders. This thread will have more credibility if it matches the disgust towards "boob armor" with a similar hatred of over-sized weapons, teleporting mages, ninja back flip rogue animations and daggers that do more damage than two handed great swords...

Just saying...

Modifié par CaptainBlackGold, 14 mars 2013 - 05:25 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

You don't need a mammary separator, as the OP termed, to have armor that protects a womans "assets" as it were.

You can have a solid breastplate that is simply curvier, instead of having a valley which, as the original article states, seems to be made to guide the blade in between the brest and straight through the sternum.

Besides, I think a solid breastplate is more aesthetically pleasing to see than the boob cups myself, leaves more to the imagination while being practical. You know, like how DA2 managed to do with it's female armored characters.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 14 mars 2013 - 05:31 .

[Blackrising]

The danger does not come from an opponent's weapon. At least not all of it.

The problem is that if pressure is put on that kind of breast plate (like for example falling down and landing on your front), the 'boobs' will not relieve any of that pressure. Thanks to the way the plate is formed, all of the pressure will go to the space between the breasts and therefore successfully crush your sternum and kill you.
Someone posted a very nice tumblr article about it on this topic...I just need to find it...

martwhim.tumblr.com/post/40061546009/why-do-you-hate-the-shape-of-breasts-in-plate-armor-so

Here, this guy says it much better than I.

Modifié par Blackrising, 14 mars 2013 - 05:35 .

[Enkidu]

CaptainBlackGold, I am no authority on actual medieval combat, so I cannot answer your question fully. I will do more research on the topic some time, but I think it's a safe assumption that the people who wrote the articles on the topic that were linked here didn't just pull all that stuff out of their ass.

And I myself never mentioned practicality here as the reason for my dislike of this style of armour specifically because I find complaints of realism fairly odd when applied to this setting. Things must consistent within the world, but not with ours. That is what's important. But this is getting off-topic and the thread already has enough of that.

As for your last point, Darth Brotarian already answered and we seem to be of a mind on this so I won't be redundant.

Darth Brotarian, thank you for your input.
Also, your nickname is awesome. I thought I was the only madman here who kinda digs batarians.

[Cainhurst Crow]

MrFlipFlops wrote...

CaptainBlackGold, I am no authority on actual medieval combat, so I cannot answer your question fully. I will do more research on the topic some time, but I think it's a safe assumption that the people who wrote the articles on the topic that were linked here didn't just pull all that stuff out of their ass.

And I myself never mentioned practicality here as the reason for my dislike of this style of armour specifically because I find complaints of realism fairly odd when applied to this setting. Things must consistent within the world, but not with ours. That is what's important. But this is getting off-topic and the thread already has enough of that.

As for your last point, Darth Brotarian already answered and we seem to be of a mind on this so I won't be redundant.

Darth Brotarian, thank you for your input.
Also, your nickname is awesome. I thought I was the only madman here who kinda digs batarians.

Thanks. I like the batarians because they seem most like humanity, full of flaws and struggling to get by in the world. I think there would be a lot of potential in exploring them and a good story about standing up to a oppressive regime, sort of a rebel against the goverment tale.

And than they became the enemy mooks of the galaxy...sigh.

[Enkidu]

Darth Brotarian, yes, exactly! They have great contrasts even between the ones you get to talk to/hear talking to someone. ME is often about subverting how each species is all about one quality (not all turians are honourable and disciplined, not all asari are fair and wise, not all salarians are weasels and nerds), but the batarians seem to get the short end of the stick on that front most times. And that's just sad, because there are great themes to explore with them like you mentioned - living under a totalitarian regime, a culture of slavery. Bah.

Also, this is dangerously unrelated to the topic. Shutting up now </Merrill>

Modifié par MrFlipFlops, 14 mars 2013 - 05:55 .

[Howlsfury]

metatheurgist wrote...

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

ok.......how do you know boobs can be squished into armor, last time i checked I haven't seen any women wearing armor lately.

Some LARPers go the whole distance with their costumes. There are also medieval re-construction groups (who make their own armor and arms to spec) and then beat each other up in organised tourneys. I believe there are some women that participate.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

ok.......how do you know boobs can be squished into armor, last time i checked I haven't seen any women wearing armor lately.

Joan of Arc

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Yrkoon wrote...

lol

Is that what this thread is about? Some pretentious internet campaign against boob-armor?   That seems kinda pointless, considering where you are. As you (and many others here) have already pointed out, Bioware got the message long ago. DA2 is remarkably void of dual-breasted shaped Armors. The only related silliness they still employ is their "iconic" sex-based stuff (e.g. Isabela's outfit, or for you ladies: Varric's hairy open chest) yet, hardly peep about that is coming from you campaigners.   What's the point in making  all of a game's Armor pieces unisex when  that game is just gonna have NPCs  who   leap into battle in their cleavage and  thongs?

Agreed. I don't think this thread is necessary.

[unbentbuzzkill]

^^no offense but religious icons often do not appear as they were in real life.

[BeatoSama]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

lol

Is that what this thread is about? Some pretentious internet campaign against boob-armor?   That seems kinda pointless, considering where you are. As you (and many others here) have already pointed out, Bioware got the message long ago. DA2 is remarkably void of dual-breasted shaped Armors. The only related silliness they still employ is their "iconic" sex-based stuff (e.g. Isabela's outfit, or for you ladies: Varric's hairy open chest) yet, hardly peep about that is coming from you campaigners.   What's the point in making  all of a game's Armor pieces unisex when  that game is just gonna have NPCs  who   leap into battle in their cleavage and  thongs?

Agreed. I don't think this thread is necessary.

I approve of this thread because I think its important to highlight the things DA2 did well and not only point out its flaws.

[Cainhurst Crow]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

^^no offense but religious icons often do not appear as they were in real life.

I suppose so, though I think it still counts, considering all accounts of her have her wearing the same armor as the knights did.

I suppose if we're looking at a purley objective and instituationalized example, japan had their own caste of warrior woman called Onna-bugeisha, who served on the battlefield and as guards of the lords lands, basically samurai woman. They began to fall out of style for the japanese around the late 1600's, same as actual samurai after their warring states period ended.

But one of the most famos in modern history was Nakano Takeko, who lead a corps of japanese woman in one of the last battles the warrior caste of japan would ever face back in 1868, and is regarded as a hero.

Here is a photograph of one of the last of the Onna-bugeisha in japan from that period.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

BeatoSama wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

lol

Is that what this thread is about? Some pretentious internet campaign against boob-armor?   That seems kinda pointless, considering where you are. As you (and many others here) have already pointed out, Bioware got the message long ago. DA2 is remarkably void of dual-breasted shaped Armors. The only related silliness they still employ is their "iconic" sex-based stuff (e.g. Isabela's outfit, or for you ladies: Varric's hairy open chest) yet, hardly peep about that is coming from you campaigners.   What's the point in making  all of a game's Armor pieces unisex when  that game is just gonna have NPCs  who   leap into battle in their cleavage and  thongs?

Agreed. I don't think this thread is necessary.

I approve of this thread because I think its important to highlight the things DA2 did well and not only point out its flaws.

Why? It's flaws heavily outweight it's pros and I think they take priority over a thread discussing breastplate sizes.

[unbentbuzzkill]

good point.

[BeatoSama]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

BeatoSama wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

lol

Is that what this thread is about? Some pretentious internet campaign against boob-armor?   That seems kinda pointless, considering where you are. As you (and many others here) have already pointed out, Bioware got the message long ago. DA2 is remarkably void of dual-breasted shaped Armors. The only related silliness they still employ is their "iconic" sex-based stuff (e.g. Isabela's outfit, or for you ladies: Varric's hairy open chest) yet, hardly peep about that is coming from you campaigners.   What's the point in making  all of a game's Armor pieces unisex when  that game is just gonna have NPCs  who   leap into battle in their cleavage and  thongs?

Agreed. I don't think this thread is necessary.

I approve of this thread because I think its important to highlight the things DA2 did well and not only point out its flaws.

Why? It's flaws heavily outweight it's pros and I think they take priority over a thread discussing breastplate sizes.

You are not forced to participate in threads that talk about DA2 favorly but why shouldn't they exist?
And though DA2 is a flawed game (as is DAO though in different ways) Its pros added far more to the experience for me than the flaws detracted from it. I am abviously not in the majority in this regard but we do exist and have a right to like the game.

Modifié par BeatoSama, 14 mars 2013 - 06:51 .

[grumpymooselion]

I really don't care, personally. If the setting is taking their gear in a fantastical direction, that's Bioware's call, and thus any sort of armor is go within the weight of what Bioware feels is fitting of the setting. I wouldn't mind more modest and conservative visual representations of armor, especially on female characters, though . . . if for no other reason than that of variety and breadth of choice.

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Why? It's flaws heavily outweight it's pros and I think they take priority over a thread discussing breastplate sizes.

What you meant to say was, "I think its flaws heavily outweight its pros, but that's wholly my opinion and has no basis in fact and thus the subjects of my opinion take no priority over this thread or any thread."

[philippe willaume]

Blackrising wrote...

The danger does not come from an opponent's weapon. At least not all of it.

The problem is that if pressure is put on that kind of breast plate (like for example falling down and landing on your front), the 'boobs' will not relieve any of that pressure. Thanks to the way the plate is formed, all of the pressure will go to the space between the breasts and therefore successfully crush your sternum and kill you.
Someone posted a very nice tumblr article about it on this topic...I just need to find it...

martwhim.tumblr.com/post/40061546009/why-do-you-hate-the-shape-of-breasts-in-plate-armor-so

Here, this guy says it much better than I.

well if your breastplate is deformed when it by a sword
strike or a trust, you have been cheated on the quality of your plate.  The point of plate is that it is bloody hard to deform. hence the disappearance of maces, the advent of "hammer" and the speciousness of the sternum crushing argument.
Armour is designed to give the blow as little purchase as possible, and in the case of a "gerrman" armour style that is  with fluting (ie the ridges) to help ginding the point off and resist a cut better for a lighter weight.
Having defined breast only makes sure that your either going to get the full wack of a mounted lance or that it will channel the point of a sword polearme lance towards you face/throat.

If it is about making the life of your opponent that easy, self harm wise there are cheaper way than  plate.
phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 14 mars 2013 - 06:46 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Janan Pacha wrote...

What you meant to say was, "I think its flaws heavily outweight its pros, but that's wholly my opinion and has no basis in fact and thus the subjects of my opinion take no priority over this thread or any thread."

Pretty much. Although, I think it's reception would indicate I could be right.

But enough of that. That's not what the thread is about, and I do so love the ancient Samurai armor. I wish more games would use it as a template. Goddamn it, no. I just want a new Jade Empire.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 14 mars 2013 - 06:48 .

[Enkidu]

Janan Pacha, that is fair. With all things considered, it's tough to get worked up over such minor details when much more important things are there to grab our attention. And I have no objection to going in a fantastical direction (that would be a silly stance, this is a fantasy game), I just don't find the breast-dents design particularly fantastic.

Modifié par MrFlipFlops, 14 mars 2013 - 06:47 .

[grumpymooselion]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Janan Pacha wrote...

What you meant to say was, "I think its flaws heavily outweight its pros, but that's wholly my opinion and has no basis in fact and thus the subjects of my opinion take no priority over this thread or any thread."

Pretty much. Although, I think it's reception would indicate I could be right.

Well that'd be an opinion too, but we're all welcome to such.

[David Gaider]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Why? It's flaws heavily outweight it's pros and I think they take priority over a thread discussing breastplate sizes.

Or you could exit the conversation if it's of no interest you, instead of trying to bully everyone into feeling the same as you do about an unrelated topic.

The discussion is fine. It doesn't seem to have taken it to an offensive place (how startling), is DA-related and there is apparently something to actually discuss. Please continue.

[philippe willaume]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

^^no offense but religious icons often do not appear as they were in real life.

i agree that Jehanne story does not really fit the context of a professional army that was the the "french" armies at the time. but none the less  there are several period text that states that she was wearing armour.
and that she swapped it for a one found in a burgondian camp.

Phil