252 réponses à ce sujet

[NovaBlastMarketing]

BeatoSama wrote...

*snip*
And the Ashley redesign is a prime exaple on how to not please your female fanbase.

Janan Pacha wrote...

I can't agree Nova, I liked the old version of Ashley, and the old style of the first ME's armor options, better as a general rule. That's not a 'practical' versus 'style' thing for me though, I just loved ME1's style in general.

Your  both entitled t o your opinion but  I can't  say i understand it  .. i still think it was  a  major improvement  and one of the few  thing  Bioware  grand slam  with  in ME3

Modifié par NovaBlastMarketing, 14 mars 2013 - 08:29 .

[philippe willaume]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

BeatoSama wrote...

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

philippe willaume wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

DELETED
martwhim.tumblr.com/post/40061546009/why-do-you-hate-the-shape-of-breasts-in-plate-armor-so

Here, this guy says it much better than I.

DELETED:innocent:

It doesn't have to be a lance. If you trip in that kind of armor the pressure will 'gather'  right at the sternum.(I'm not using the right terms here as I have a hard time talking about physics in english) While if its only convex armor it'll be more evenly distributed.

I appreciate what you said here, but am having a hard time picturing it. Granted, the "ponts" would hit the ground first, but then the force would be transferred to the rest of the armor, would it not?

yes are globally right.
armour is composed of back and breast plate, and again even when you joust you can not feel a single point.
yes  I have dented (dent the size of a plate) a few or my opponent armour and it was because it was too thin (and i was on horse and the got but  the allmunium hold of teh baska at the end of 5 kg cheery tree lance and to be fair i have broken two multy layered plywood shield.)
and there no way i can reproduce that with a hand held weapon. 

Now all armours was not round it is a typical" italian" style.
http://www.golden-he...nisch14401.html

vs german (gothic)
http://www.flickr.co...ami/2043858080/

now, according to medieval fencing masters you must thrust where there is no armour, and breast on plate would make that easier but funelling the tip.
as well and I think this is waht Beatosama is talking about is, armour is designed to make the blow glance so if it not spot on it will be defelected, breat will makes sure that the blow is not deflected ie each time you are getting the full money worth. so that will eventually rattle your cage.
there will be noo deformation so to speak, but it would your oppoenet to strike true

phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 14 mars 2013 - 08:29 .

[Nefla]

If I cared about realism to that degree, my characters wouldn't have a "helmet off" toggle because OMG not wearing a helmet into battle would mean they'd get shot in the face/decapitated! I'm a woman, I prefer to look like a woman. Do I want some ridiculous chainmail bikini? Heck no, but I like femshep's molded boob armor in all 3 games. I think all or most of the heavy armor in DA:O/DA2 was male shaped unflattering. Given the choice I'd like something closer fitting and more feminine.

[syllogi]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

Why would female warriors want to look as much like their male counter-parts?

In so far as calling "attention" to one's self; two quick comments. Since historically, plate armor cost about the same amount as a small farm, only the rich could afford it. Plate armor was also often highly decorated to make you stand out on the battlefield - presumably so that your deeds could be recognized.

Secondly, ever seen Roman officer armor with its greatly exaggerated "real life" musculature? It made the officers look fearesome and "manly." If there were women warriors wearing plate, why would not at least a percentage of them take a similar approach?

And as far as the Grey Wardens go, only a percentage wear plate; it seems to be fairly uncommon (you don't get any for yourself in DAO until much later in the game). People wore what they could afford/obtain at the time. And I do not recall whether the Grey Warden plate armor had sexual dimorphism or not.

You really don't understand why a female warrior would want to be treated the same as her male counterparts on the battlefield, or why they might worry about being molested by the enemy if wounded (while a male warrior might just be left for dead or taken prisoner)?  Again, what is the benefit in letting an enemy specifically know that this warrior is female?  And you didn't really address the Grey Warden thing...why wouldn't a female Grey Warden who knows that darkspawn might want to carry them off to create new Broodmothers try to blend in with her male associates, if possible?

Modifié par syllogi, 14 mars 2013 - 08:36 .

[Heimdall]

Why would female warriors want to look as much like their male counter-parts?

In so far as calling "attention" to one's self; two quick comments. Since historically, plate armor cost about the same amount as a small farm, only the rich could afford it. Plate armor was also often highly decorated to make you stand out on the battlefield - presumably so that your deeds could be recognized.

Secondly, ever seen Roman officer armor with its greatly exaggerated "real life" musculature? It made the officers look fearesome and "manly." If there were women warriors wearing plate, why would not at least a percentage of them take a similar approach?

And as far as the Grey Wardens go, only a percentage wear plate; it seems to be fairly uncommon (you don't get any for yourself in DAO until much later in the game). People wore what they could afford/obtain at the time. And I do not recall whether the Grey Warden plate armor had sexual dimorphism or not.

Recognizable as an individual and recognizable for your gender aren't the same thing.  I'm sure a warrior, female or otherwise, would rather draw attention to their own skill as an individual than make a point to advertise their gender.

Because "manliness" has been traditionally associated with strength and violent prowess?  "Femininity", not so much.  More to the point, have any males in DA shown such tendency?

[Masha Potato]

I think DA2 had it right mostly

[Nefla]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Because "manliness" has been traditionally associated with strength and violent prowess?  "Femininity", not so much.  More to the point, have any males in DA shown such tendency?

And if every warrior looks like a man and tries to be as masculine as possible, that will never change.

[Blackrising]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

syllogi wrote...

MrFlipFlops wrote...

SNIPPED

Agreed, I'm pretty sure that female warriors would want to look as much like their male counterparts as possible.  What advantage would there be in calling attention to oneself, other than say, wearing the colors of your own allegiance, so you don't get mistaken for the other side, if you're fighting other humans.

Also, although it may not be common knowledge amongst non-Grey Wardens, I'd imagine any female Grey Warden who knows about Broodmothers would be *very* uninterested in calling attention to their sex.  

Why would female warriors want to look as much like their male counter-parts?

In so far as calling "attention" to one's self; two quick comments. Since historically, plate armor cost about the same amount as a small farm, only the rich could afford it. Plate armor was also often highly decorated to make you stand out on the battlefield - presumably so that your deeds could be recognized.

Secondly, ever seen Roman officer armor with its greatly exaggerated "real life" musculature? It made the officers look fearesome and "manly." If there were women warriors wearing plate, why would not at least a percentage of them take a similar approach?

And as far as the Grey Wardens go, only a percentage wear plate; it seems to be fairly uncommon (you don't get any for yourself in DAO until much later in the game). People wore what they could afford/obtain at the time. And I do not recall whether the Grey Warden plate armor had sexual dimorphism or not.

Let's see...if I were a female warrior in a medieval-type setting and I was going to war...you can be damn sure I would NOT want to draw attention to the fact that I'm a woman.
What do you think my male enemies will do if I happen to be defeated and lie on the ground, completly helpless? I can assure you they would not invite me for tea.
Not to mention that I might not be taken seriously. (Of course, that could be a good thing, depending on how much I value my pride.)

Therefore I am pretty damn sure that there is no woman that would not want to appear like a man in that kind of setting.

[philippe willaume]

Nefla wrote...

If I cared about realism to that degree, my characters wouldn't have a "helmet off" toggle because OMG not wearing a helmet into battle would mean they'd get shot in the face/decapitated! I'm a woman, I prefer to look like a woman. Do I want some ridiculous chainmail bikini? Heck no, but I like femshep's molded boob armor in all 3 games. I think all or most of the heavy armor in DA:O/DA2 was male shaped unflattering. Given the choice I'd like something closer fitting and more feminine.

I have to say that I agree i liked the boob armour in ME series, I think that would work in a medival seeting but somehow i just can't bring myself to beleive than fantasy plate will use the same concept .
Regarless of any other objection i might have, i do have a massive suspention of disbelief with  high heels  mid thights "take me now" leather boots,  plate mini skirt,  bare mid rift and decolté plate bra and a "pour la forme" neck protection.

phil

[MissOuJ]

A++ for the heading. Made me do a double take, then laugh out loud. Kudos!

OT: I agree, thought mostly because I just recently read from somewhere that the "boob cup" armor would in reality be actually deadly since it puts all the pressure on the sternum and thus, leads to a rather painful death in case the heroine falls.

I have to say I didn't mind it much in DA:O (even thought it really does look a bit silly), althought the new female armour models in DA2 do look better in my opinion. So, you have my support!

[Renmiri1]

You know, there are other things that could be squished or hit upon...

Henry the VIII's armor:

[Jean]

Renmiri1 wrote...

You know, there are other things that could be squished or hit upon...

Henry the VIII's armor:

Considering it belonged to Henry the VIII, that doesn't seem so surpring. 

To be on topic, boob cup armor has never been a favorite of mine either. 

[M Hedonist]

Yes. Well put on every level. Agree completely.

[PsychoBlonde]

MrFlipFlops wrote...

Bioware, please make DAIII an awesome, fun, deep, rich and sexy game untainted by the scourge of literal breastplates.

Probably the best-written post I've seen on this subject.  Well Played, Sir or Madam.

[SongstressKitsune]

I don't mind if there's like - a slightly more feminine shape to the armor? A curve for the bust, for instance, like in DA2.

Individual boob pockets, however, I'm gonna agree-those look very silly. It's purely aesthetics, nothing practical; I also think boob socks in drawn clothing look ridiculous.

[Commander Kurt]

Boobies sure is a gripping subject (as well it should be, boobies are great)...

But I too agree with the OP. Actually, the larger the assets, the more important it is to keep them pressed as flat as possible when moving around much. That's why you rarely see female athletes, who often enhance their femininity using makeup or hairstyles, sporting a Madonna style cone bra.

[Versus Omnibus]

I agree with the OP over this subject. I find breast cups on armor to be completely stupid.

[dragondreamer]

Impractical armor is a peeve of mine, so I'm in agreement with the OP here. Even the cry of "but femininity!" is kinda irking because I don't care for being told what is and is not properly "feminine", thank you kindly. Having my female characters forced to wear "hot" outfits because they're girls is usually just an eyesore to me. I only accepted the rogue skirts in DAO because the guys had to wear them too.

[daaaav]

MrFlipFlops wrote...

Why, hello there! I’m here to talk to you about breasts. Who doesn’t love ‘em? I sure do. In fact, I grew two of my own just because they’re so cool. But you know what’s not cool? A walking tank with enough strength to wrestle a dragon bare-handed sporting some really incongruous boob cups.

Seriously.

Don’t do that. They are dumb. Just look at them!

EDIT: this is to show contrast, not to illustrate the ideal armour design for females. More on the topic of actual design suggestions can be found here as posted up by the awesome HJF4

And no, I am not bothered by Isabela’s armour or lack thereof. She can prance around in a nightgown and panties all she wants and it ain’t my place to interfere. I can suspend my disbelief enough to trust that she is just good enough to survive fights in that. Just like my male warrior can survive taking a Qunari spear to the groin with no repercussions or my mage eating a fireball in DAO without suffering from third-degree burns and associated difficulties his entire life. It’s fantasy and the battles are fantastical and rather abstract. I’m cool with it, I’m with the times.

But ****** implants on plate armour? NO. I’m bothered by them and the risk of a fractured sternum has nothing to do with it. I am bothered because they are just mind-numbingly ridiculous and stupid. I like the ladies to look good, but this just doesn’t.

You see, sexy is a positive quality, but it’s a lot like funny – you have to time it properly. It doesn’t matter if you are the greatest lover of humour, a purveyor of jokes and write comedy sketches in your free time just for the love of it. If someone tells you a joke as you frantically scramble to revive the lifeless corpse of your friend in the middle of a horrific car accident you won’t laugh at it. If someone makes a quip about your friend missing his chair while sitting down 20 minuets ago you won’t laugh. It’s just too late and no longer zingy. With comedy timing is paramount and if you do it just right you can be crowned King of the Laughlands. Likewise, if you do it wrong you will get a second of people staring at you before sighing in resignation and ignoring you for the rest of the evening.

If you do sexy at the wrong time or place you will end up looking like an ass and nothing else.
And what is the wrong place to do sexy? In the middle of an armoured warrior's chest. Don’t do that. There is a time and a place for that.

But why am I bringing it up now and here? DAII did away with this idiotic practice after all. And how right you are! My purpose here is to encourage more of that. Sex scenes raunchier than what I can get on a TV commercial? Awesome, you go work on them right now! Anything else genuinely sexy? Do that and find comfort in my blessing of your activities. Stapling boobs unto plate armour? You step away from your computer and think about what you did. You monster.

I truly hope that the decision to no longer partake in this awful tradition was a conscious one on the developer’s side. If it was for the sake of cutting time while scrambling to put DAII out then it’s great too. The choice to focus on making the game (however poorly in the opinion of a vocal many) instead of sculpting D-cups atop a crazed berseker’s bosom is one I can get behind.

Bioware, please make DAIII an awesome, fun, deep, rich and sexy game untainted by the scourge of literal breastplates.

I usually have a bit of a rant about folk demanding "sensible" outfits for all characters, but I agree with everything in this post.

[Direwolf0294]

NovaBlastMarketing wrote...

BeatoSama wrote...

*snip*
And the Ashley redesign is a prime exaple on how to not please your female fanbase.

Janan Pacha wrote...

I can't agree Nova, I liked the old version of Ashley, and the old style of the first ME's armor options, better as a general rule. That's not a 'practical' versus 'style' thing for me though, I just loved ME1's style in general.

Your  both entitled t o your opinion but  I can't  say i understand it  .. i still think it was  a  major improvement  and one of the few  thing  Bioware  grand slam  with  in ME3

For me, the armour was an improvement, because the white/pink she was wearing in ME1 looked really stupid, but the character design for Ashley was better in ME1. In ME1 she was a soldier. In ME3 she was some runway model who had a tone of plastic surgery and looked stupid.

Getting a bit off topic here though, so I'll say the best female armour in the ME games was Shepard's N7 armour, and BioWare should try and do something like that for DA3. I'd love it if DA3 included a unique set of armour for the Inquisitor to wear. Still include a bunch of other armour sets of course, but have one iconic set you can wear throughout the entire game if you choose.

[Silverblade-T-E]

If being serious, it depends on the anatomy of the wearer, and combat style, tech of setting etc

problem is plate armour has to be very well fitted to you to work well.
If a woman has large breasts that HAS to be worked into the design, same as a guy with a very broad/deep chest

from all I've heard the ladies say, squashed boobs are as bad as squashed balls so it's not a simple as saying "just squash 'em in"!

but if the armour is too tight, too restrictive and doesn't allow blows to slide off...you got problems
any strong blow will be felt through and that would hurt.
So the armour would need to be worked carefully.

and yes there are most definately athletic women who have large boobs (Thank thee Oh lord!  ) though there are many who do not but their breasts are still sensitive so you'd spend more time on such armour for plain practical needs
(see also "chainmail nipple chafe" which kind of put the crimps on the silly side of female "fantasy" armour, lol).

I suggest folks ask the people in things like the Society for Creative Anachronism, and historica re-enactors (former is perhaps better since we are talking fantasy), get their opinions on the actual practical designs of plate armour for females?

hm, I can imagine dwarven women with sort of hexagonal designs for their chest armour, where as for many human females would be just more deeply moulded pecs than for a man is all?
no one complains about the elaborate Grecian/Roman style chest plates for MEN you know.

Modifié par Silverblade-T-E, 15 mars 2013 - 12:54 .

[metatheurgist]

Howlsfury wrote...

metatheurgist wrote...

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

ok.......how do you know boobs can be squished into armor, last time i checked I haven't seen any women wearing armor lately.

Some LARPers go the whole distance with their costumes. There are also medieval re-construction groups (who make their own armor and arms to spec) and then beat each other up in organised tourneys. I believe there are some women that participate.

 

That is an awesome bit of kit.

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet:



And I just realised I've been posting in this thread with an avatar of Xena...in her breastplate.

[legbamel]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...
[giant snip]
I appreciate what you said here, but am having a hard time picturing it. Granted, the "ponts" would hit the ground first, but then the force would be transferred to the rest of the armor, would it not?

The problem is that there is not a full plate of armor to which it can transfer that force equally.  There are two cones that send a goodly amount of it straight to the sternum, just at the point where they come together...pretty much in a point.  It's the difference between a facepalm and being poked in the eye. 

[Vajraja]

What would be nice for the next DA is options. Where you can have armor that is sexier or not and you can choose how you want it to look for your character.

Guild Wars 2 has a neat way of doing this - they have transmutation stones where you can keep the stats of a certain class of an item and but the visuals of another. So if they have pieces that are more revealing or with "mammary seperators" or whatever the op was saying and you don't like it you can swap the look with something else.

I would rather have options than cater to certain people's preferences both visually and from a playstyle perspective.

[nightscrawl]

MrFlipFlops wrote...

I specifically asked several of my lady friends who were available right now if they would do that. They said they wouldn't. And I wouldn't as well. Admittedly, "some of my chums" is hardly a sufficient sample group, but I think it is relevant nonetheless. I'm sure there would exist women who'd do so, but I do not think they would be in the majority. Maybe some of them would order such a design for parade armour, but for front-line combat and for the reasons you specified? No, I do not find that likely.

In real life, I wouldn't either. I wouldn't want to be distinguished from a man on the battlefield.

A game is another matter though, and I don't mind wearing girlie armor there, as long as it's tasteful.