225 réponses à ce sujet

[dorktainian]

the problem with this destroy/control/synthesis conflict is most people assume the endings literally happen.

The only ending that literally happens is shepard waking up if he picks destroy.

controllers and synthesisers... well you'll just have to enjoy your 'dream' endings while my shep goes kicks reaper arse.

[NCommand]

People sure like to justify their choices when it comes to the ending

[Steelcan]

dorktainian wrote...

the problem with this destroy/control/synthesis conflict is most people assume the endings literally happen.

The only ending that literally happens is shepard waking up if he picks destroy.

controllers and synthesisers... well you'll just have to enjoy your 'dream' endings while my shep goes kicks reaper arse.

. This is my problem with ITers.

[DDG4005]

In my opinion Destroy is the only choice not Synthesis or Control.  It's what Shepard sets out to do from the first game and it's understood that by the third game not everyone is going to live.  EDI's and the Geth's deaths are regrettable  but I wouldn't call it genocide.  Shepard does not purposely seek to wipe them out when he chooses Destroy and you don't get the other two choices unless your EMS is high enough (2800 or higher I think).

I don't want to derail this thread so I will just leave it at that.

Modifié par DDG3595, 15 mars 2013 - 01:28 .

[spirosz]

Good for you and I'm glad you came to the realization. Honestly, if Synthesis was executed better, instead of that feeling of "forcing" this upon the galaxy, with no input, I probably would of chose it because I do like the concept, just not how Bioware represented it.

I could never choose it in the state it is now, tbh - so I'll always stick with Destroy.

[spirosz]

DDG3595 wrote...

In my opinion Destroy is the only choice not Synthesis or Control.  It's what Shepard sets out to do from the first game and it's understood that by the third game not everyone is going to live.  EDI's and the Geth's deaths are regrettable  but I wouldn't call it genocide.  Shepard does not purposely seek to wipe them out when he chooses Destroy and you don't get the other two choices unless your EMS is high enough (2800 or higher I think).

I don't to derail this thread so I just leave at that.

Regardless if Shepard wanted to or not, that is still a form of genocide. 

[ruggly]

Grats on finally finding an ending.

spirosz wrote...

Good for you and I'm glad you came to the realization. Honestly, if Synthesis was executed better, instead of that feeling of "forcing" this upon the galaxy, with no input, I probably would of chose it because I do like the concept, just not how Bioware represented it.

I could never choose it in the state it is now, tbh - so I'll always stick with Destroy.

My feelings on the matter as well.

[Auld Wulf]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Synthesis... the only way different beings will understand and be at peace with each other is to forcibly remove their differences (here making them of the same nature). Hell of a message.

It's not removing their differences so much as removing their limitations, and that's a fantastic message.

I've said this before and I'll say it again; as a person with a debilitating illness which severely limits what I'm able to do in day to day life, I find that Synthesis is the only ending I can personally relate to. In a way, I see Joker as me in the Mass Effect Universe, somewhat more capable and less ill, but a good proxy. He suffers with brittle bone disease and he feels limited in what he's able to do because of that.

The small victories he's achieved were dictated by what his body could do. It was a bittersweet note in Citadel that Joker dances the same way as Shepard, and that this is why he hadn't wanted to dance. EDI had to coerce him, and when I saw that it just tugged on my heartstrings. In a way, people like Joker are my people, because I understand how frustrating life is for them when they have an illness that medical science has no cure for.

I felt that, according to my own perceptions, the Destroy ending was selfish. Did I want Shepard to live? I guess, but what's the cost? Another person here mentioned the currency you're paying for a potential continuation of Shepard. That price included the geth and EDI as nothing more than currency, without actually considering how it would affect the Universe. In my Universe, the geth were helping the quarians adjust to their homeworld again, and I could see how EDI was helping Joker to cope with day to day life. I know how it's like to have someone who helps you deal with how frustrating life is when you have a debilitating illness from first-hand experience.

Trust me when I say that if I had my coping mechanisms taken away from me, I would end up feeling very suicidal. I know Joker would be the same way. So why would I take EDI from him? Why do that? I couldn't be that selfish. Maybe others can, but I couldn't. It's just not in me, I can't do that. I wanted a better Universe for everyone, so I examined the other endings. Control is a good option and I have nothing against, but I just felt that it didn't go far enough, quick enough. I felt people had suffered enough.

By picking Synthesis I could allow quarians to remove their suits that day. By picking Synthesis I could allow EDI to experience true emotions that day. By picking Synthesis I could present Joker with a cure that day. By picking Synthesis I could create lasting galactic empathy that day.

What Synthesis does (as stated by the Catalyst) is remove limitations of organics and synthetics. That's not removing differences -- unless you have a very hierarchical mindset that perceives the only differences between people as 'better people' and 'worse people.' So no, people still have choice. A carpenter will still be different from a politician. An artist will still be different from a pilot. A turian will still be different from a krogan. You can clearly see that differences are still present in the ending, but limitations are gone.

With limitations gone, I was happy. It sat well with me, EDI and Joker could live a full life, now. EDI was able to understand love and Joker no longer had brittle bone disease. There was freedom in this. Joker could now choose his future, he wasn't shackled and oppressed by nature, he had the right now to choose his own destiny. And he could learn how to dance it up with the best of them if he so desired. That made Synthesis right. That made Synthesis just. If you have ever experienced suffering beyond a broken shoe or a hangnail, suffering as I have, then Synthesis is good for the soul. And provides happiness for the soulsick.

I don't expect everyone to understand this perspective, but it is my perspective. It's the perspective of someone who isn't the same as everyone else.

I hope one day people will understand why I'm so passionate about it rather than seeing that I'm not just "in it to win it" as some are. I have my doubts, but I always have my hopes.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 14 mars 2013 - 01:00 .

[dorktainian]

Steelcan wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

the problem with this destroy/control/synthesis conflict is most people assume the endings literally happen.

The only ending that literally happens is shepard waking up if he picks destroy.

controllers and synthesisers... well you'll just have to enjoy your 'dream' endings while my shep goes kicks reaper arse.

. This is my problem with ITers.

   

oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

[Wayning_Star]

it's a matter, in the MEU, to either pick synthesis yourself/shep or  delay it with other choices. In the MEU it's inevitable as technology is canon, not organics. They've lost that the first time they leached onto reapertech for free.

doesn't matter what uninvolved races think..they're just late committing to the same trap...they'll eventually find a similar mars leftover and be.... curious as a catalyst.

It's all about intellect and what that represents in realtime, not who can get as drunk at parties and still drive home unrepentant. Destroy won't work, never did never will..sorry


(thanks BioWare for the nifty spellcheck.. but it says I'm spelling bioware incorrectly, and we NEED more emoticons...)

[Auld Wulf]

dorktainian wrote...
oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

Perspective is important...

What we see in the ending could as easily be the clone as it could Shepard. There are no facts present to say that it is Shepard and not the clone, so it could go either way. For me, the dogtags worn so fetishisitically made me feel that it was the clone, but that's just my perspective.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Auld Wulf wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

Perspective is important...

What we see in the ending could as easily be the clone as it could Shepard. There are no facts present to say that it is Shepard and not the clone, so it could go either way. For me, the dogtags worn so fetishisitically made me feel that it was the clone, but that's just my perspective.

that's wrong when did tha clone take shepard's place

[Wayning_Star]

Auld Wulf wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

Perspective is important...

What we see in the ending could as easily be the clone as it could Shepard. There are no facts present to say that it is Shepard and not the clone, so it could go either way. For me, the dogtags worn so fetishisitically made me feel that it was the clone, but that's just my perspective.

don't forget the fingerprint hype AW..that kind of puts a finger on the concept of identity, or crises with same...

[Guanxii]

The Geth were prepared to give up their right to self-determin as a synthetic race as "evidently an acceptable trade" to secure their future. Evidently there are a lot of Shepards out there who aren't willing to return the favor and give up the right of organic life to self-determine as organic life to secure theirs.

I understand the frustration and hatred for synthesis but are you prepared to completely doom organic life to extinction based on this principle? To that I would quote Mr. Synthesis Saren AKA the Didact and say that "your nobility has blinded you human, as ever".

I personally prefer refuse to destroy for my Shepards who are so inclined because the civilization in the next cycle seemingly defeats the Reapers as a result of Shepard's actions without compromising these principles. If you romance Liara it also seems really poignant. If the next civilization can defeat the reapers without compromising these principles I think they've probably got this synthetic thing sorted out. That ultimately seems like a better future for the galaxy to me.

Modifié par Guanxii, 14 mars 2013 - 01:12 .

[Wayning_Star]

Guanxii wrote...

The Geth were prepared to give up their right to self-determinism as a synthetic race as "evidently an acceptable trade" to secure their future. Evidently there are a lot of Shepards out there who aren't willing to return the favor and give up the right of organic life to self-determine as organic life to secure theirs.

I understand the frustration and hatred for synthesis but are you prepared to completely doom organic life to extinction based on this principle? To that I would quote the Saren AKA the Didact and say that "your nobility has blinded you human, as ever".

I personally prefer refuse to destroy for my Shepards who are so inclined because the civilization in the next cycle seemingly defeats the Reapers as a result of Shepard's actions without compromising these principles. If you romance Liara it also seems really poignant. If the next civilization can defeat the reapers without compromising these principles I think they've probably got this synthetic thing sorted out. That ultimately seems like a better future for the galaxy to me.

once we take on our tools as us, we lose our grip on any reality taken as  self determined. Besides, understanding what we're risking is all there is to determination, self or otherwise. It's all about need and what we think about it.

[DeinonSlayer]

I find it mildly entertaining that Cosmic's ending drama has been going on for a full year now. I remember back when he argued for Control, and I think there was something else before that... good times.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 mars 2013 - 01:15 .

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

Perspective is important...

What we see in the ending could as easily be the clone as it could Shepard. There are no facts present to say that it is Shepard and not the clone, so it could go either way. For me, the dogtags worn so fetishisitically made me feel that it was the clone, but that's just my perspective.

. The clone being dead and all does come to mind

Modifié par Steelcan, 14 mars 2013 - 01:14 .

[dorktainian]

Auld Wulf wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

Perspective is important...

What we see in the ending could as easily be the clone as it could Shepard. There are no facts present to say that it is Shepard and not the clone, so it could go either way. For me, the dogtags worn so fetishisitically made me feel that it was the clone, but that's just my perspective.

yeh and shep could be liara and vega could be ashley....etc... it's all a matter of perspective.

sometimes what you see......is.

[Mordanticus]

Let me preface my posting by saying I am, yes even after all this time, a anti-ending player.. I have kicked myself over and over on buying DLC, but keep hoping that we eventually get an actual decent ending.. Citadel was humorous and it was great seeing my crew again, but at its end, just left me depressed that nothing would change after our great shore leave..

I will say it till my last breath Bioware.. Its not too late.. The extended cut, while helpful answering questions, shouldn't be the end.. There is still time to fix what was broken.. Give those of us who wanted it the happy ending we wanted, not a slide show/animal house "where are they now" ending..

Hold the Line.. For life..

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
oh dear.  so you deny shepard 'waking up' then?  ok.....................

Perspective is important...

What we see in the ending could as easily be the clone as it could Shepard. There are no facts present to say that it is Shepard and not the clone, so it could go either way. For me, the dogtags worn so fetishisitically made me feel that it was the clone, but that's just my perspective.

. The clone being dead and all does come to mind

Silence, luddite. 

[Steelcan]

Guanxii wrote...

I understand the frustration and hatred for synthesis but are you prepared to completely doom organic life to extinction based on this principle? To that I would quote Mr. Synthesis Saren AKA the Didact and say that "your nobility has blinded you human, as ever".
.

. I can't hear you over the quarians destroying the geth.

[Wayning_Star]

all Shep has to do is follow orders..what's so hard about that ending?

[Zazzerka]

Auld, if you were a man, I'd punch you. I'd punch you right in the mouth.

Modifié par GT Zazzerka, 14 mars 2013 - 01:18 .

[Wayning_Star]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

Auld, if you were a man, I'd punch you. I'd punch you right in the mouth.

[Steelcan]

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=IcOmUS_a_f0

For anyone who believes the Catalyst