225 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Sideria wrote...

Destroy : Sentient race of this cycle found their own solution, but at the price of many sacrifice, after a long and bloody path. (Plus losing all the reaper legacy of billions of year of knowledge from countless race).

I'm more in line with the "build our own future and own it" crowd, but considering this for a moment... every race before this cycle only had 50,000 years to develop before being "archived." Each built off of the preceding cycle, using the tech they were meant to find instead of innovating. How much could there really to offer be which isn't a replica of what everyone already has? The same thing happened over and over; the same tech being developed and knocked back at around the same time, the same stage of development. A lot, too, would be cycle-specific: designed for or from long-extinct species, it would be utterly useless.

[Steelcan]

I've been saying that Deinon. But the archetype of "Ancient knowledge" is just too prevalent nowadays. If its old and gone, it must have been good.

[N7 Banshee Bait]

The only good endings are synthesis & control. Shepard would never pick destroy for 2 reasons.

#1 Destroy makes every scene you played with the Geth & Legion a complete waste of time. Shepard spent a lot of time & put his life in danger many times to bring peace to the Quarians & Geth. If you choose to destroy them you just pissed all that away. Destroy makes Shepard a big f***ing jerk! It's totally out of character.

#2. EDI prevented Cerberus from venting the hangar on Kronos Station. If not for EDI you would never have made it out of Kronos & would never be able to finish the game. Without EDI Cerberus kicks your ass & TIM wins. If you pick destroy Shepard basically thanks EDI by killing her. That's totally out of character.

So you did good! You chose one of the endings that helped everybody in the galaxy. Destroy doesn't help anybody. If you chose destroy all you would do is kill a large chunk of your allies & in a few decades new synthetics would rise up & start new wars. With Synthesis & Control you gain all the knowledge of the Reapers & add them as allies. It's a win/win situation.

Modifié par N7 Banshee Bait, 14 mars 2013 - 07:54 .

[Sideria]

True, but most technologically.
It will be still a loss from cultural and social point of view.

[mereck7980]

N7 Banshee Bait wrote...

#1 Destroy makes every scene you played with the Geth & Legion a complete waste of time. Shepard spent a lot of time & put his life in danger many times to bring peace to the Quarians & Geth. If you choose to destroy them you just pissed all that away. Destroy makes Shepard a big f***ing jerk! It's totally out of character.

If you pick anything other than destroy it pretty much makes all of ME1 and ME2 a complete waste of time, since Shepard has always been focused on DESTROYING the reapers.  Only in the last 10 minutes of the game was there ever any mention of anything else.  

#2. EDI prevented Cerberus from venting the hangar on Kronos Station. If not for EDI you would never have made it out of Kronos & would never be able to finish the game. Without EDI Cerberus kicks your ass & TIM wins. Shepard wouldn't thank her by killing her. That's totally out of character.

True, but how is she more valueable than anyone else Shepard has ever serverd with?  It could be argued that all the squadmates have saved Shepard's life on multiple occasions, and with a few exceptions they can all die.  

So you did good! You chose one of the endings that helped everybody in the galaxy. Destroy doesn't help anybody. If you chose destroy all you would do is kill a large chunk of your allies & in a few decades new synthetics would rise up & start new wars. With Synthesis & Control you gain all the knowledge of the Reapers & add them as allies. It's a win/win situation.

Having the reapers as allies is not a win/win.  They are responsible for the near extinction of every major species in the game.  How anyone could trust they would be beneveolent in the post endgame ME universe baffles me.  In control Shepard becomes a techno god/dictator and uses the reapers to enforce his/her will.  In synthesis the reapers still exist and so does the Catalyst.  They weren't changed with the Crucible fired.  All they lost was their movitavtion to harvest.  How do you know they will be peaceful in the future?  

[DeinonSlayer]

Sideria wrote...

True, but most technologically.
It will be still a loss from cultural and social point of view.

Mere trivia at this point, sad to say. Each culture uses the technology of past cycles, but outside of "uplifted" races like the Asari, the cultures of past cycles have no role in the cultural development of those that follow.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 mars 2013 - 08:31 .

[thearbiter1337]

After the Citadel DLC i still pick Refusal

**** having a perfect Shep.

[Sideria]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Mere trivia at this point, sad to say. Each culture uses the technology of past cycles, but outside of "uplifted" races like the Asari, the cultures of past cycles have no role in the cultural development of those that follow.

Exactly, each culture are mostly unique. This is why I think it's a big loss. Not the main factor of my decision, but it still count ^^
I'm mostly going for synthesis because I love the concept of understanding and unlimited access to knowledge for everyone.

[DeinonSlayer]

Sideria wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Mere trivia at this point, sad to say. Each culture uses the technology of past cycles, but outside of "uplifted" races like the Asari, the cultures of past cycles have no role in the cultural development of those that follow.

Exactly, each culture are mostly unique. This is why I think it's a big loss. Not the main factor of my decision, but it still count ^^
I'm mostly going for synthesis because I love the concept of understanding and unlimited access to knowledge for everyone.

Reminds me too much of Serenity.

"River, we're not telling people what to think. We're just showing them how."
*STAB*

[Auld Wulf]

Sideria wrote...

Synthesis : Final solution already found : Peace and empathy for everybody, but no choice on this matter.

What I would say here is that the oppressed, the sick, the minorities, and the less capable would all happily choose Synthesis because it levels the playing field. The ultimate goal of the Catalyst is equality. I do disagree with the methods of the Catalyst, but I agree with the goal. The goal that everyone should be on equal footing, and that everyone should have the freedom to choose.

Shepard has thousands more choices available to him than Joker does because Shepard has brittle bone disease. As an ethical person, Shepard realises that levelling the playing field and providing everyone the equal chance to be whatever they want to be will actually cure a lot of human suffering. The physically ill and the soulsick will be able to embrace life as they never had. Now, as a person with a debilitating illness, this is a perspective that is quite familiar to me. The fact of the matter is that whilst people talk about choice, they're ignoring the choice of the people who'd want this, the people with terminal or debilitating illnesses, those less capable -- those who would choose Synthesis because it would allow them to enjoy life. Where's their choice? This is hardly a diplomatic process.

So Shepard has to weigh it ethically. Are the healthy people actually losing anything by embracing Synthesis? No, they're not. It doesn't take their personalities away, it doesn't take their talents away, it doesn't take their minds, hopes, or dreams away. All it does is empower groups of people that perhaps not everyone would want to see empowered. Unless you've been in a bad situation, it's hard to understand it, and it's easy to see some people as 'lesser creatures.' But that's what ethics and empathy is about. Synthesis would also provide empathy, it would indeed level the playing field.

Thus, it has to be understood that there is choice either way. Those who are perfect, and healthy, and have never suffered more than a broken shoe or a hangnail will forget that others would eagerly choose Synthesis. They'd accept a cure to their debilitating, lifelong illness if they could. Synthesis is a healing wave, and by not choosing it, you're denying those people their choice, their desire to be well again, their desire to actually be a part of society, rather than looking in from the outside because people perceive them to be different.

I know empathy and ethics don't come easily to everyone, I understand that. But you just have to think about all of the people who're suffering anyway, those who're paralysed in part or in full, those who're always in pain... for my Shepard, to pick anything other than Synthesis would be unconscionable, as it would be withholding a cure, it would be saying that these people don't deserve to live well. I think all of the Normandy's crew would understand this, too, from Joker and their own experiences.

So whilst those perfectly healthy people might not want Synthesis because they see no benefit, that person who's been mostly paralysed might see a lot of benefit to being able to move again. It's about thinking about more than yourself, and realising that there are sick, suffering, hurting people whom Synthesis could cure once and for all. And that Synthesis is, ultimately, the cure to all organic ills. To me, it would be kind of like present day withholding the cure to cancer, for whatever reason. Is there really a good reason to withhold a cure to cancer? Is there really a good reason to tell Joker that he doesn't deserve to be well?

That's the way I see it. I'm a bleeding heart, yes, but once you've experienced life in a different way, it's easy to be one. Once you've suffered, you can empathise with the suffering of other people. But again, if all you've ever suffered with is a hangnail or a broken shoe, and that's the extent of your suffering, then I could see how Destroy is a simple choice.

[DeinonSlayer]

Auld Wulf, if it supposedly cures all ills, can you explain why Joker is still limping in the Synthesis ending?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 mars 2013 - 08:58 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Auld Wulf, if it supposedly cures all ills, can you explain why Joker is still limping in the Synthesis ending?

Now you did it.

[Sideria]

Animation, habit, reflex, pick one ^^
"Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology"

[DeinonSlayer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Auld Wulf, if it supposedly cures all ills, can you explain why Joker is still limping in the Synthesis ending?

Now you did it.

"Feel that? Everything's... shaking."

Sideria wrote...

Animation, habit, reflex, pick one ^^
"Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology"

Define "perfected."

Also, consider the source.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 mars 2013 - 09:04 .

[Sideria]

Anyway, this is nitpicking. Or like we say in my native language :
"Enculer les mouches" If i may translate litteraly : "Fu** flies"

Modifié par Sideria, 14 mars 2013 - 09:07 .

[Eterna]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Mumba1511 wrote...

lolsynthesisisbad

Yeah, this thread is probably gonna be rough...

Who cares, let them be rough. What they think doesn't matter, it is your ending. 

[Auld Wulf]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Auld Wulf, if it supposedly cures all ills, can you explain why Joker is still limping in the Synthesis ending?

He's not? I even went to look it up on Youtube just to be sure. He's going down steps but he's not limping.

I don't understand the purpose of introducing lies into the argument. And I don't understand how lies are meant to undermine my point?

[ruggly]

I thought he was still limping in the synthesis ending, but I haven't watched that epilogue in a while either.

[Auld Wulf]

The ending is available on Youtube if you want to watch it.

[ruggly]

Hm, well hard to tell from the few steps he's taking, but it still looks like a slight limp to me.

But whatever, it's not my preffered ending anyways.  I have my cheesy fanfiction.

Modifié par ruggly, 14 mars 2013 - 10:09 .

[Auld Wulf]

I don't see a limp. We see his limp in ME2 and it's very pronounced (he's doubled over).

Here's Joker's limp:
Here's the Synthesis ending:

He's not limping.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 14 mars 2013 - 10:11 .

[ruggly]

What's real funny is that his limp magically disappears in Citadel, and doesn't show up again until they're walking back to the Normandy.

But in that scene, he takes like what...5-6 steps? Looks like he's slightly limping down from the Normandy. But there's no sense in arguing over this, really.

[Auld Wulf]

Well, I'm only saying that Joker has a limp in canon. We see that limp in ME2. In the Synthesis ending I don't see him doing the doubled over limp.

Therefore, his limp is cured and thus Synthesis is a cure.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 14 mars 2013 - 10:13 .

[ruggly]

And that's fine.

I guess one could say he could have a slight limp from the ship landing, sore legs and what not.

Modifié par ruggly, 14 mars 2013 - 10:16 .

[Bill Casey]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Well, I'm only saying that Joker has a limp in canon. We see that limp in ME2. In the Synthesis ending I don't see him doing the doubled over limp.

Therefore, his limp is cured and thus Synthesis is a cure.

I guess Destroy and Control cure Joker's limp too then...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 14 mars 2013 - 10:16 .