501 réponses à ce sujet

[Behemoth 140]

First off I have always love the ending, made sense on all of them, never could figure out exactly why people hate them.

78stonewobble wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...
So the crucible somehow released enough nannites to cover a volume of millions if not hundreds of millions of cubic *light years* in volume (did the math, the galaxy is roughly 500,000,000, ly^3 in volume if assumed cylindrical with radius of 50,000 ly and thickness of 1,000 ly)? Not to mention that there are somehow enough to attach to every strand of DNA of every being in the galaxy (trillions per life form)? That's roughly one hextillion life strands of DNA that are to be affected - a number that is nearly impossible to comprehend.

I hate to say it, but there is not enough energy in the the entire universe for this to happen. It's pure space magic.

I think that maybe that's the problem.

The scale is (or scales in astronomy are) so absurd and so impossible to comprehend that people are unable to grasp just how much space magic is involved.



Also if the Reapers can construct nanites (complex though small machines) from energy everywhere in the galaxy nigh instantly. They probably wouldn't need to process organics. They could scan the galaxy once and just recreate the base materials in the reaponia factory and then just wipe organics out via their energy manipulation.

If there was enough energy for the big bang theory to happen, than i think that can happen too. And for the reapers not needing organics, why look for resources to make us when they can just liquify us and save the trouble of looking for everything

[Reptilian Rob]

moater boat wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

I'm not sure the scale here is being adequately explained. There are in excess of 1 hextillion (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) strands of DNA that will need to be "wrapped." DNA chains have an average surface area of roughly 2.2 E -9 m^2. This means that the nannites would have to cover roughly 2.2 quadrillion square meters of area (2,200,000,000,000,000 m^2) of DNA strands, just to deal with all the advanced races that we know of in the game.

That completely ignores the other 99% of the galaxy. If one assumes that the rest of the galaxy contains on average an even distribution of life, then that number goes up by a factor of 100. And once one factors in every plant life form in the galaxy, the number goes up by even more (on Earth, there more plants than animals - it would likely go up by a LOT).

This assumes the nannites magically know exactly how and where all life forms are at all times so that the "green beam delivery system" doesn't need to create more than this. Considering we can't reliably even scan for the presence of life on a planet within 25-30 ly, a nannite capable of locating EVERY life form with pinpoint accuracy at any given time in the galaxy is absurd, even for Reaper tech.

And I still maintain that altering the molecular structure of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 strands of DNA (and this is a very low estimate, it could be thousands or even *millions* of times this number as this ignores plant life) would require an unthinkable amount of energy, given that would contain 100 hextillion * 3 billion base pairs (in human DNA) = 100 nonillion (100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) different chemical reactions. 
A basic chemistry course will tell you that the energy needed to perform that many chemical reactions is unthinkable.

TL;DR

The crucible would have to alter roughly 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 DNA base pairs (rough estimate) for galactic scale Synthesis to work. Most of these reactions will be in the kJ in energy, so we are talking in terms of 100s decillions of joules in energy for all of these reactions to take place.

It would also have to cover anestimated area of 220,000,000,000,000,000 m^2 of area of DNA to change only animal life forms in the galaxy. Including microbial and plant life to this equation, and it could be even exponentially larger.

While I'm sure a lot of these assumptions aren't likely to be 100% true, it should give an idea as to the scale needed for Synthesis to work.Quite bluntly - harnessing this energy would be ludicrous. Even for the Reapers. Synthesis is pure, unadultered space magic.

Fantastic work

Not to mention that the synthesis cutscene botched the construction of DNA strands. There is no helix in the cutscene...

[Maxster_]

78stonewobble wrote...
...

Regarding the whole thing about Reapers and visible light. While they obviously have know how to build detectors (eyes) for pretty much any range in the spectrum that doesn't necessarily mean that the individual or class of reapers/destroyers have all or even most of these.

We don't build tanks with gamma, x-ray detectors or ELF radio antennas. They have visible light, nightvision, radios and thermal imaging. IE. narrow parts of the spectrum which are usefull to their intended role

Role of Reaper Dreadnought is a space combat and orbital bombardment. Therefore, said dreadnought being unable to detect objects - makes it incapable of it's primary function or even space navigation.
Like a tank without visible light, nightvision, radios and the thermal imaging. A box with a gun and no means for a crew to spot anything.

Modifié par Maxster_, 15 mars 2013 - 11:32 .

[Maxster_]

otis0310 wrote...

Fenrir__ wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

Instead of quoting that huge section PainCakesX I will simply state that this, other than simply bad writing and throwing out all lore and story to date, is another reason the endings suck.

Side Note: Anyone notice that the catalyst could have simply opened the Citadel's Mass Effect Relay itself in ME1, making the whole plot absurd?

I mean there is this big AI in a secret room of the Citadel and it needs a reaper to manually override the Citadel's controls even though the AI is in the Citadel itself and is therefore already in control of that station? Makes no sense......

The only thing that I can guess is that, the Catalyst is the one controlling the Keepers and that the damage the Protheans did affects the Catalyst control requiring Sovereign to intialize the overrride. It is possible that over the cycles organize have affected the control the Catalyst has over some aspest of the Citadel. It is a plost whole but one that can be sort of explained with the Keeper explanation.

Not really, the Catalyst is smart.  At the end of the last cycle it should have detected the damage that was done, and tried to repair it.  You get the impression that after the protheans did the damage the Citadel lay abandoned for millenia until the Asari found it.    So basically you're telling me the stupid AI sat there for thousands of years knowing that its control over the keepers was compromised and could not open the Citadel Relay when the time came and did nothing to repair the damage at all?

There are sensors on the Citadel, it must have seen the prothean arrive on the Citadel after their race was whiped out, and it must have seen what they were doing, and be smart enough to know what impact it would have.  So no, the keeper control does not explain it, since the AI made no attempt to fix the damage.  Unless you threw in the "Stupidest AI ever made" concept as well.

"I control the reapers".
So, Catalyst deliberately restrict himself to being unable to do anything without keepers. And then he refuses to call reapers, who can arrive at the Citadel in 3 years. And having much fun watching how Sovereign was trying to do something for thousands of years.
Otherwise it would be no fun, obviously. Joke on Sovereign would be ruined.

More funny, of course, is that in Control epilogue, Citadel was closed by new Catalyst-Shepard. Therefore, in ME1, Catalyst refused to help Sovereign just for lulz.

Modifié par Maxster_, 15 mars 2013 - 11:40 .

[EnvyTB075]

Behemoth 140 wrote...

If there was enough energy for the big bang theory to happen, than i think that can happen too. And for the reapers not needing organics, why look for resources to make us when they can just liquify us and save the trouble of looking for everything

Absolutely not. The big bang was just a whole bunch of nuclear fission reactions. You can't compare something that merely explodes to give off energy in all forms to a non-explosion that changes the DNA (or equivalents) of everything in the Milky Way instantaneously.

Synthesis is dumb, plain and simple.

Maxster_ wrote...

Like a tank without visible light, nightvision, radios and the thermal imaging. A box with a gun and no means for a crew to spot anything. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

And even then Tanks have holes in them for the crew to look out of when they need to.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 15 mars 2013 - 11:42 .

[Maxster_]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Like a tank without visible light, nightvision, radios and the thermal imaging. A box with a gun and no means for a crew to spot anything. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

And even then Tanks have holes in them for the crew to look out of when they need to.

In case of that failed analogy, there were no holes. 

[EnvyTB075]

Maxster_ wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Like a tank without visible light, nightvision, radios and the thermal imaging. A box with a gun and no means for a crew to spot anything. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

And even then Tanks have holes in them for the crew to look out of when they need to.

In case of that failed analogy, there were no holes. 

Indeed.......................i need another coffee

[Applepie_Svk]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Behemoth 140 wrote...

If there was enough energy for the big bang theory to happen, than i think that can happen too. And for the reapers not needing organics, why look for resources to make us when they can just liquify us and save the trouble of looking for everything

Synthesis is dumb, plain and simple.

I should go...

[Riot86]

Maxster_ wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

Fenrir__ wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

Instead of quoting that huge section PainCakesX I will simply state that this, other than simply bad writing and throwing out all lore and story to date, is another reason the endings suck.

Side Note: Anyone notice that the catalyst could have simply opened the Citadel's Mass Effect Relay itself in ME1, making the whole plot absurd?

I mean there is this big AI in a secret room of the Citadel and it needs a reaper to manually override the Citadel's controls even though the AI is in the Citadel itself and is therefore already in control of that station? Makes no sense......

The only thing that I can guess is that, the Catalyst is the one controlling the Keepers and that the damage the Protheans did affects the Catalyst control requiring Sovereign to intialize the overrride. It is possible that over the cycles organize have affected the control the Catalyst has over some aspest of the Citadel. It is a plost whole but one that can be sort of explained with the Keeper explanation.

Not really, the Catalyst is smart.  At the end of the last cycle it should have detected the damage that was done, and tried to repair it.  You get the impression that after the protheans did the damage the Citadel lay abandoned for millenia until the Asari found it.    So basically you're telling me the stupid AI sat there for thousands of years knowing that its control over the keepers was compromised and could not open the Citadel Relay when the time came and did nothing to repair the damage at all?

There are sensors on the Citadel, it must have seen the prothean arrive on the Citadel after their race was whiped out, and it must have seen what they were doing, and be smart enough to know what impact it would have.  So no, the keeper control does not explain it, since the AI made no attempt to fix the damage.  Unless you threw in the "Stupidest AI ever made" concept as well.

"I control the reapers".
So, Catalyst deliberately restrict himself to being unable to do anything without keepers. And then he refuses to call reapers, who can arrive at the Citadel in 3 years. And having much fun watching how Sovereign was trying to do something for thousands of years.
Otherwise it would be no fun, obviously. Joke on Sovereign would be ruined.

More funny, of course, is that in Control epilogue, Citadel was closed by new Catalyst-Shepard. Therefore, in ME1, Catalyst refused to help Sovereign just for lulz.

Damn you! You beat me to posting something very similar...very good post, mate! 

Additionaly it should be stated, that the existence of the Catalyst makes Sovereign's role as a "Observer"  completly pointless. Why would the Reapers need to leave a Reaper behind to monitor the devolopment of organics, when their friggin leader is part of the Citadel itself? The Catalyst could just observe the Citadel races (as they were the ones advanced enough to be harvested) on his own and when the time was right, open the Relay himself and call the minions he claims to control.

Modifié par Riot86, 15 mars 2013 - 11:56 .

[EnvyTB075]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Behemoth 140 wrote...

If there was enough energy for the big bang theory to happen, than i think that can happen too. And for the reapers not needing organics, why look for resources to make us when they can just liquify us and save the trouble of looking for everything

Synthesis is dumb, plain and simple.

I should go...

Unsure if making funny, being sarcastic or willfully ignorent of the rest of my post

[Fenrir__]

Behemoth 140 wrote...

First off I have always love the ending, made sense on all of them, never could figure out exactly why people hate them.

78stonewobble wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...
So the crucible somehow released enough nannites to cover a volume of millions if not hundreds of millions of cubic *light years* in volume (did the math, the galaxy is roughly 500,000,000, ly^3 in volume if assumed cylindrical with radius of 50,000 ly and thickness of 1,000 ly)? Not to mention that there are somehow enough to attach to every strand of DNA of every being in the galaxy (trillions per life form)? That's roughly one hextillion life strands of DNA that are to be affected - a number that is nearly impossible to comprehend.

I hate to say it, but there is not enough energy in the the entire universe for this to happen. It's pure space magic.

I think that maybe that's the problem.

The scale is (or scales in astronomy are) so absurd and so impossible to comprehend that people are unable to grasp just how much space magic is involved.



Also if the Reapers can construct nanites (complex though small machines) from energy everywhere in the galaxy nigh instantly. They probably wouldn't need to process organics. They could scan the galaxy once and just recreate the base materials in the reaponia factory and then just wipe organics out via their energy manipulation.

If there was enough energy for the big bang theory to happen, than i think that can happen too. And for the reapers not needing organics, why look for resources to make us when they can just liquify us and save the trouble of looking for everything

I am responding to the part as to why people hate the endings. It's primarily because to those of us that buy DLC merchandise etc and love the characters play the games multiple times. We want our Ending, instead we got A, B and C and with the original way they ended was a lot of BS after 5 years and hundreds of ours.

Now I am not critisizing all of the endings, Once I finish a playthrough with my Renegade Female Sheppard you can bet your ass that control is most definitely the way she will go that's the way she thinks and the way she does things.

To those that united the Universe but don't believe in Synthesis because primarily how the **** do you continue from that it leaves them with little to no option if ME3 is the last story ever told in the MEU then synthesis is a fantastic ending for those people with Self Sacrifice and happyness in theory. 

The Issue is that we all love Mass Effect wether we love or hate the endings. Two of those endings are akin to literary suicide Control or Synthesis trying to continue beyond ME3 one can be a giant Deux Ex Machina who is gonna ****** off the new Space Cops the reapers. Synthesis is a difficult task to explain on an individual level that many science fiction writers chose to not address the issue fully and start with the beginings. If there is a society that has acheived this fusion they write it as is and don't often cover exactly how they got to where they are as explaining everything would be very difficult. Now to have this event happen to all societies what does that mean for all forms of life including vegetation, animal life etc and how will this affect the Galaxy and what writer can answer all of thos questions and  give us a satisfying game experience that's an incredible challenge one that greats such as Arthur C Clarke and Asimov did not tackle.

The fact that the endings themselves exist aren't the issue, the issue is we weren't able to achieve our ending,  Which is what bioware should have been creating withing the story framework and some of the endings just don't work with regards to continuing the Mass Effect Universe post ME3. Expanding on some endings or giving you unexpected options for higher EMS would have satisfied many people. For example Shepard surviving Synthesis due to something that occured in ME1 or ME2 if you played a certain way amazing. Finding technology that could have protected EDI or the Geth depending on your EMS and technology discovered and following through with destroy would have been fine also. The main issue is that in the last 10 minutes of the game our Shepard was no longer us he was what Casey Hudson and Mac Walters gave us which to many is quite frustrating. 

I can live with the endings as I played with all of the DLC and the EC which makes for a much better experience and may not be the endings I want but leaves me at least 50% satisfied.

[Fenrir__]

Riot86 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

Fenrir__ wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

Instead of quoting that huge section PainCakesX I will simply state that this, other than simply bad writing and throwing out all lore and story to date, is another reason the endings suck.

Side Note: Anyone notice that the catalyst could have simply opened the Citadel's Mass Effect Relay itself in ME1, making the whole plot absurd?

I mean there is this big AI in a secret room of the Citadel and it needs a reaper to manually override the Citadel's controls even though the AI is in the Citadel itself and is therefore already in control of that station? Makes no sense......

The only thing that I can guess is that, the Catalyst is the one controlling the Keepers and that the damage the Protheans did affects the Catalyst control requiring Sovereign to intialize the overrride. It is possible that over the cycles organize have affected the control the Catalyst has over some aspest of the Citadel. It is a plost whole but one that can be sort of explained with the Keeper explanation.

Not really, the Catalyst is smart.  At the end of the last cycle it should have detected the damage that was done, and tried to repair it.  You get the impression that after the protheans did the damage the Citadel lay abandoned for millenia until the Asari found it.    So basically you're telling me the stupid AI sat there for thousands of years knowing that its control over the keepers was compromised and could not open the Citadel Relay when the time came and did nothing to repair the damage at all?

There are sensors on the Citadel, it must have seen the prothean arrive on the Citadel after their race was whiped out, and it must have seen what they were doing, and be smart enough to know what impact it would have.  So no, the keeper control does not explain it, since the AI made no attempt to fix the damage.  Unless you threw in the "Stupidest AI ever made" concept as well.

"I control the reapers".
So, Catalyst deliberately restrict himself to being unable to do anything without keepers. And then he refuses to call reapers, who can arrive at the Citadel in 3 years. And having much fun watching how Sovereign was trying to do something for thousands of years.
Otherwise it would be no fun, obviously. Joke on Sovereign would be ruined.

More funny, of course, is that in Control epilogue, Citadel was closed by new Catalyst-Shepard. Therefore, in ME1, Catalyst refused to help Sovereign just for lulz.

Damn you! You beat me to posting something very similar...very good post, mate! 

Additionaly it should be stated, that the existence of the Catalyst makes Sovereign's role as a "Observer"  completly pointless. Why would the Reapers need to leave a Reaper behind to monitor the devolopment of organics, when their friggin leader is part of the Citadel itself? The Catalyst could just observe the Citadel races (as they were the ones advanced enough to be harvested) on his own and when the time was right, open the Relay himself and call the minions he claims to control.

That's a good point about the catalyst. Perhaps he has to preceive the Galaxy through a reaper to confirm that the time is right or if the civilizations are becoming a threat. It could be that whatever the catalyst has done to let Organics control the citadel and not find him has left him somewhat disconnected to hide his existence need a scout. I know it's flimsy I am just saying that plot hole can be easily filled but not very convicingly

[Applepie_Svk]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Behemoth 140 wrote...

If there was enough energy for the big bang theory to happen, than i think that can happen too. And for the reapers not needing organics, why look for resources to make us when they can just liquify us and save the trouble of looking for everything

Synthesis is dumb, plain and simple.

I should go...

Unsure if making funny, being sarcastic or willfully ignorent of the rest of my post

Putting in context synthesis is like signing as a volunteer to Stalin for gulag with vision of promised utopian world, while I end up cleaning a crap in local latrine...


I´ve meant that sentence to guy which was comparing synthesis with big bang theory and also that what you said was just enough to describe my thoughts about synthesis.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 16 mars 2013 - 12:09 .

[EnvyTB075]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Putting in context synthesis is like signing as a volunteer to Stalin for gulag with vision of promised utopian world, while I end up cleaning a crap in local latrine...


I´ve meant that sentence to guy which was comparing synthesis with big bang theory and also that what you said was just enough to describe my thoughts about synthesis.

Ah ok. Sometimes, on BSN, you need to confirm whats being said xD

[Riot86]

Fenrir__ wrote...

*snip*

That's a good point about the catalyst. Perhaps he has to preceive the Galaxy through a reaper to confirm that the time is right or if the civilizations are becoming a threat. It could be that whatever the catalyst has done to let Organics control the citadel and not find him has left him somewhat disconnected to hide his existence need a scout. I know it's flimsy I am just saying that plot hole can be easily filled but not very convicingly

That is a possible explanation. But as you said yourself, not a very convincing one

I doubt that the Catalyst is completly disconnected to the outer world, as he states he is the one who controls the Reapers. How can he control something, when he is unable to communicate with the outside in some way?

But much more importantly is this:
Rememeber that the organics don't completly understand how the Citadel itself works. One of the its main functions (from the Reapers point of view) being an Mass Relay is something the Citadel races had absolutely no clue about, despite the massvie amount of technology needed to enable such a function. And even the Conduit build by the Protheans was undetected by the Citadel races, despite obvoiusly being activated all the time (Kaidan mentions a hum in ME 1 while standing near the monument). And while the technolgy used in its construction was similar to actual Reaper-tech, it was still far less advanced and yet no scanning device was able to spot it standing there right in the middle of the Presidium.

So I'm fairly sure it would be easily possible for the Catalyst to have a simple but (almost) undetectable monitoring-device based on highly advanced Reaper-tech, that he could use from time to time to see how the organic races on the Citadel are developing.

Modifié par Riot86, 16 mars 2013 - 12:51 .

[Fenrir__]

I agree wit you completely, I was just showing how this is one plot hole with a little thought could easily be filled in. It's there but a skilled writer can tackle it.

How do you handle a sequel after control or synthesis without just saying the reapers up and left, and avoid addressing how life has been changed by synthesis is something a great writer wouldn't tackle on a galaxy wide scale. To me those are the two biggest plot holes in the game especially as Bioware want's to continue with the Mass Effect Universe but humanity has only bee a part of the scene for a few decades, sigh.... really not sure what they were thinking on those ones.

[Applepie_Svk]

Riot86 wrote...

That is a possible explanation. But as you said yourself, not a very convincing one

I doubt that the Catalyst is completly disconnected to the outer world, as he states he is the one who controls the Reapers. How can he control something, when he is unable to communicate with the outside in some way?

Whole catalyst thing is so irrational that it breaks any kind of logic, simple conclusion is that it´s just a "red herring"...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 16 mars 2013 - 01:10 .

[Maxster_]

Fenrir__ wrote...

I agree wit you completely, I was just showing how this is one plot hole with a little thought could easily be filled in. It's there but a skilled writer can tackle it.

How do you handle a sequel after control or synthesis without just saying the reapers up and left, and avoid addressing how life has been changed by synthesis is something a great writer wouldn't tackle on a galaxy wide scale. To me those are the two biggest plot holes in the game especially as Bioware want's to continue with the Mass Effect Universe but humanity has only bee a part of the scene for a few decades, sigh.... really not sure what they were thinking on those ones.

This "explanation" won't work. Attempt to fill a plothole made it even bigger.
Anyway, Reapers arrival already destroyed ME series overarching plot. Reapers just sat in dark space for a thousands of years of Sovereign's machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 3 years, losing completely nothing.
Add Catalyst to that - and not only they sat in dark space for no reason, they were also perfectly aware about prothean sabotage from the start("i control the reapers"), and thus - there was no reason for Sovereign to act. At all.

Thus, ME1 was turned into pure nonsense. Reapers deliberately allowed those events to happen, just for lulz.

Modifié par Maxster_, 16 mars 2013 - 01:05 .

[Zekka]

Why would I forgive the ending even though the ending is still there. It is still bad and nothing can stop it now.

[Fenrir__]

Maxster_ wrote...

Fenrir__ wrote...

I agree wit you completely, I was just showing how this is one plot hole with a little thought could easily be filled in. It's there but a skilled writer can tackle it.

How do you handle a sequel after control or synthesis without just saying the reapers up and left, and avoid addressing how life has been changed by synthesis is something a great writer wouldn't tackle on a galaxy wide scale. To me those are the two biggest plot holes in the game especially as Bioware want's to continue with the Mass Effect Universe but humanity has only bee a part of the scene for a few decades, sigh.... really not sure what they were thinking on those ones.

This "explanation" won't work. Attempt to fill a plothole made it even bigger.
Anyway, Reapers arrival already destroyed ME series overarching plot. Reapers just sat in dark space for a thousands of years of Sovereign's machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 3 years, losing completely nothing.
Add Catalyst to that - and not only they sat in dark space for no reason, they were also perfectly aware about prothean sabotage from the start("i control the reapers"), and thus - there was no reason for Sovereign to act. At all.

Thus, ME1 was turned into pure nonsense. Reapers deliberately allowed those events to happen, just for lulz.

I am not saying that my explanation makes it any better I am just pointing out that if you wanted to explain it you can, considering the synthesis ending and the need for shepard it could have something to do with the Keeper's DNA all I am saying is that if Mac Walters for example wanted to come up with an explanation and address it he could. Not sure how great it would be but it is something that a writer can overcome.

[otis0310]

I am just going to throw this out there, maybe you are right that a skilled writer could easily explain away these plot holes. However, if he was truly a skilled writer he never would have made them to begin with.

That just makes sense to me.

[Maxster_]

otis0310 wrote...

I am just going to throw this out there, maybe you are right that a skilled writer could easily explain away these plot holes. However, if he was truly a skilled writer he never would have made them to begin with.

That just makes sense to me.

True.
Also shown with Leviathan retcons and EC.
Meaning a guide how to fix plotholes with even bigger plotholes. It always works

Modifié par Maxster_, 16 mars 2013 - 06:28 .

[kobayashi-maru]

otis0310 wrote...

I am just going to throw this out there, maybe you are right that a skilled writer could easily explain away these plot holes. However, if he was truly a skilled writer he never would have made them to begin with.

That just makes sense to me.

While I agree with what you say, the plot holes and problems created in the EC is not really a writing problem, it's a producers one. According Ray Muzyka recently and other devs it was decided to keep the original artistic vision and only add context. Unfortunetly to fix the issues they had to add some more less severe ones. Without original ending the Stargazer scene and Normandy crash have no purpose but because the writers were not allowed to delete it they had to stick with it. Which is why ship flies off again. Is stupid but they had no other option.

Don't get hope up for any answers as to what intentions where with endings Mike Gamble just tweeted that "We speak through the content, as most game developers do". And don't expect anymore clarifications or epilogues he also said after the EC theory won't be going any further. 

The whole tweet thing wasn't helped by some nasty remarks, but while the EC was bearable my faith in the producers and heads at BW has slowly gone down hill - not the writers and devs. Are some/most of comments negative with some disgusting yes, however they could at least have some kind of FAQ or answer some questions about what the main intentions where behind idea. I don't hate them or feel need to spew vitriol at them, it just makes things worse. I guess I'm just disappointed that a company with the talent to create Citadel DLC, stands up for women's and gay rights could continually do this. And the justification of rude tweets/posts is valid but less so if you realise much could have been avoided if someone - anyone- was willing to discuss the endings.

Just really disappointed 

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

I cannot bring myself to finish the game again after seeing the ending.... Even with the extended cut DLC... I finally have a Soldier I'm going to finish the game with after the extended cut... But honestly, I don't think it will fix it...

[Xamufam]

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

I cannot bring myself to finish the game again after seeing the ending.... Even with the extended cut DLC... I finally have a Soldier I'm going to finish the game with after the extended cut... But honestly, I don't think it will fix it...

download the me3 mehem ending mod
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/368/index/14795358/1