501 réponses à ce sujet

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Troxa wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

I cannot bring myself to finish the game again after seeing the ending.... Even with the extended cut DLC... I finally have a Soldier I'm going to finish the game with after the extended cut... But honestly, I don't think it will fix it...

download the me3 mehem ending mod
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/368/index/14795358/1

Xbox...

[AshenShug4r]

Only-Twin wrote...

The catalyst is retarded, but the destroy extended cut at least gave me proper closure.

With an incredibly obscure breath scene completely open to interpretation?

[Random Geth]

AshenShug4r wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

The catalyst is retarded, but the destroy extended cut at least gave me proper closure.

With an incredibly obscure breath scene completely open to interpretation?

Probably means the epilogue with Hackett.  Since at least there's "Hey, we actually won" instead of "Oh, the mass relays blew up (in red), obliterating every homeworld in the galaxy". 

[Applepie_Svk]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

moater boat wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

I'm not sure the scale here is being adequately explained. There are in excess of 1 hextillion (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) strands of DNA that will need to be "wrapped." DNA chains have an average surface area of roughly 2.2 E -9 m^2. This means that the nannites would have to cover roughly 2.2 quadrillion square meters of area (2,200,000,000,000,000 m^2) of DNA strands, just to deal with all the advanced races that we know of in the game.

That completely ignores the other 99% of the galaxy. If one assumes that the rest of the galaxy contains on average an even distribution of life, then that number goes up by a factor of 100. And once one factors in every plant life form in the galaxy, the number goes up by even more (on Earth, there more plants than animals - it would likely go up by a LOT).

This assumes the nannites magically know exactly how and where all life forms are at all times so that the "green beam delivery system" doesn't need to create more than this. Considering we can't reliably even scan for the presence of life on a planet within 25-30 ly, a nannite capable of locating EVERY life form with pinpoint accuracy at any given time in the galaxy is absurd, even for Reaper tech.

And I still maintain that altering the molecular structure of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 strands of DNA (and this is a very low estimate, it could be thousands or even *millions* of times this number as this ignores plant life) would require an unthinkable amount of energy, given that would contain 100 hextillion * 3 billion base pairs (in human DNA) = 100 nonillion (100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) different chemical reactions. 
A basic chemistry course will tell you that the energy needed to perform that many chemical reactions is unthinkable.

TL;DR

The crucible would have to alter roughly 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 DNA base pairs (rough estimate) for galactic scale Synthesis to work. Most of these reactions will be in the kJ in energy, so we are talking in terms of 100s decillions of joules in energy for all of these reactions to take place.

It would also have to cover anestimated area of 220,000,000,000,000,000 m^2 of area of DNA to change only animal life forms in the galaxy. Including microbial and plant life to this equation, and it could be even exponentially larger.

While I'm sure a lot of these assumptions aren't likely to be 100% true, it should give an idea as to the scale needed for Synthesis to work.Quite bluntly - harnessing this energy would be ludicrous. Even for the Reapers. Synthesis is pure, unadultered space magic.

Fantastic work

Not to mention that the synthesis cutscene botched the construction of DNA strands. There is no helix in the cutscene...

Dumbest thing about this whole synthesis thought is that you are supposed to change everyone on deepest DNA level  with noninvasive wave of energy across the whole galaxy... that´s like saying that thanks by RTG I could cure broken bones 

If ending slides would show some sorts of medical procedure or injecting people with this stuff, then I would say - right at least it makes sence even if it was still disturbing but whole rainbow effect is just stupid.

Btw I leave you here something...

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Catalyst- synthesis, control - sounds like an ascension to me...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 16 mars 2013 - 10:43 .

[otis0310]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Btw I leave you here something...

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Catalyst- synthesis, control - sounds like an ascension to me...

I might claim I hear voices in my head too.  Most people would tend to believe I am insanse.  So, unless you are trying to make an insane person seem like that they know what they are talking about, I tend to discount that argument.

[Applepie_Svk]

otis0310 wrote...


I might claim I hear voices in my head too.  Most people would tend to believe I am insanse.  So, unless you are trying to make an insane person seem like that they know what they are talking about, I tend to discount that argument.

Should I posted whole article ? I guess yes... Or do you realize that this was about indoctrination ? Otherwise if you´re hearing voices you can be schizophrenic or another miracle child which is speaking with god or a victim which have an alien chip inside head...

[Outsider edge]

otis0310 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Btw I leave you here something...

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Catalyst- synthesis, control - sounds like an ascension to me...

I might claim I hear voices in my head too.  Most people would tend to believe I am insanse.  So, unless you are trying to make an insane person seem like that they know what they are talking about, I tend to discount that argument.

One could argue with the reasons the Catalyst gives for what he and his minions do that he's borderline insane aswell. But we the players aren't allowed too discount his arguments are we?

Modifié par Outsider edge, 16 mars 2013 - 11:01 .

[78stonewobble]

Maxster_ wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...
...

Regarding the whole thing about Reapers and visible light. While they obviously have know how to build detectors (eyes) for pretty much any range in the spectrum that doesn't necessarily mean that the individual or class of reapers/destroyers have all or even most of these.

We don't build tanks with gamma, x-ray detectors or ELF radio antennas. They have visible light, nightvision, radios and thermal imaging. IE. narrow parts of the spectrum which are usefull to their intended role

Role of Reaper Dreadnought is a space combat and orbital bombardment. Therefore, said dreadnought being unable to detect objects - makes it incapable of it's primary function or even space navigation.
Like a tank without visible light, nightvision, radios and the thermal imaging. A box with a gun and no means for a crew to spot anything.

Agreed that would be silly.

I just wanted to point out that having the capability to do something isn't the same as using that capability or it even being usefull for xyz.

[Applepie_Svk]

Outsider edge wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Btw I leave you here something...

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Catalyst- synthesis, control - sounds like an ascension to me...

I might claim I hear voices in my head too.  Most people would tend to believe I am insanse.  So, unless you are trying to make an insane person seem like that they know what they are talking about, I tend to discount that argument.

One could argue with the reasons the Catalyst gives for what he and his minions do that he's borderline insane aswell. But we the players aren't allowed too discount his arguments are we?

It´s like with destroy which doesn´t make any sense in context with Catalyst´s purpose ergo preserving life for all cost...

Shepard: So, you were programed to preserve life for all costs ?

Catalyst: Yes...

Shepard: So, why did you give me a chance to destroy you, broke your purpose and all your effort across the billions of years of harvest ?

Catalyst: ...

[N7-RedFox]

hell destroyer wrote...

Did you forgive the ending of Me3 with the Extended Cut or with the Citadel DLC? Do you like Me3 now? Are you still mad at it or you can enjoy it now?
Would you have liked ME3 if the base game shipped with the EC and Citadel DLC contents?

Myself, I've forgiven it with the EC.

I thoroughly loved the Citadel DLC but the ending comes after it and that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The decision to have the Catalyst is the little kid still grinds my gears and after reading the plotlines that were cut or turned down such javik being the catalyst or the dark energy plotlines and the missing illusive man boss fight, i feel any of these cancelled plotines would have been WAY better than the starkid. 

[78stonewobble]

RainbowDazed wrote...

I'll keep this short: 

These I believe were established in-game: 
- Sentient organic beings create tools to make life easier. 
- With time these tools become more intelligent and at some point they might become self-aware (the birth of synthetic life)
- Tools are created the serve a purpose
- A self-aware being locked in servitude is usually concidered to be a slave
- Self-awarness of synthetics often leads to a conflic between organic and synthetic life
- This conflict creates a situation where some or all forms of life may perish. 
- The leviathans tried to solve this problem but could not find a solution
- They created an AI to provide a solution (the catalyst)
- The catalyst found no solution to the question, but it found a way to preserve organic and sythetic life in galaxy (cycles)
- With this solution the catalyst was infact trying preserve life, not to abolish it. 
- The catalyst created the mass relays and the citadel to control and guide the evolution of organic life

This is my speculation:
- The purpose of the cycles is not merely to preserve status quo. They have another objective
- With the cycles the catalyst is a) preserving life and  trying to find a solution to the assigned task
- The catalyst is aware of the crucible program and has an active role in ensuring that it is preserved throughout the cycles. 
- The Crucible is something that the organic life at this stage of evolution can not fully understand but have a chance to succeed in building. It is a project that possibly thousands of different organic species and civilizations have contributed on over the cycles under high stress and extreme motivation. 
- Building the crucible encourages and forces the organic life to look for solutions outside the means of conventional victory and to consider other alternatives (reaper indoctrination encourages organics to consider the possibility of controlling the reapers)

These I believe were established in-game: 
- The crucible is a tool that provides various options for how to change the status quo (the cycles and the reapers). 
- If more advanced, it offers more alternatives. 
- The three possible outcomes that can be achieved with the crucible (during this cycle) are: 

• Destroy: a reset button which destroys all technology based on the reapers and gives the galaxy a chance for a fresh start. 
  
• Control: Commander Shepard becomes the new catalyst and assumes to control of the reapers. The galaxy preserves all the advanced technology based on the reapers and the reapers remain as servants to the new catalyst. 
  
• Synthesis: a solution to bring synthetic and organic life more closer to each other. Only possible in a cycle where the organic beings are ready to accept such merging. The highly advanced crucible build as a collaboration between different species suggests that this cycle is ready.
  Refuse: the cycle refuses to choose from the options the crucible enables and the cycles continue. 

- This cycle is the first one to finish the crucible
- The story suggests that the crucible is not yet finished (=there could be even more ideal solutions, but this is what this cycle will have to deal with). If refusal is chosen, another cycle might finish the work. 

This is my speculation: 
- The catalyst hasn't still found a permanent solution, but it conciders this method (building the crucible) to have the highest chance of success. Out of the options presented the catalyst perceives synthesis to have the highest and destroy the least chance at success. Control does just what it suggests: keeps the galaxy under control. Only instead of the AI, Shepard will be doing the controlling. 

I think that about sums it. Still took me half an hour to type this up, damn. 

Hehe ... That was a very very well written reply and I thank you for it.

Still the way I see it.

The catalyst, as you mention it, was designed to prevent as much loss of life as possible due to conflict between organics and synthetic life.

It's worst case scenario is the extinction of ALL organic life. Sentient or not. From that perspective the reapings makes perfect sense. They save more life than they extinguish.

However. There are faults with this reasoning.

If the worst case scenario was possible and did happen. It really isn't that bad. The god ai obviously just left after it wiped everyone out and let organic life develop again.

If the worst case scenario is very unlikely. There is a good chance that the Reapers are destroying more life than they are saving.

If the worst case scenario is so unlikely, that it's nigh impossible. Then all the Reapers are doing is killing life. Obviously fully contrary to their intended purpose.

However even if gods (the uber AI) are impossible, that does leave room for conflict between organics and synthetics. Apart from the supposed AI god, then the Reapers are the next most powerfull thing out there. Which means that instead of Reapings they could just intervene and stop that conflict at specific points. Like the galactic watchmen or police.

Even more basically... And atleast to me a more obvious solution to the whole thing.

If organics are on the verge of developing AI to do their bidding. Give em friggin vacuum robots (and what not) to fully prevent the need to enslave the AI and thus preventing conflict in the first place.

If my toaster one day decides to be the first astronaut toaster in space. I'd be fine with that. I'd get a new toaster that doesn't have ambitions.

Which is why the conflict between synthetics and organics is a silly concept in the first place viewed from a rational perspective. Like most other conflict it would have to be due to emotions / faulty logic / faulty programming. Unless we're speaking about ressource conflicts, but space is too vast for that. It would come into play only over multiple billions of years if ever.

I also view the catalyst solutions (endings) as non solutions as per the ingame information on them. Control keeps the reapings, because pure life can develop on any rock. Synthesis keeps the reapings, because pure life can develop on any rock. Destroy keeps the reapings, albeit delayed, because life can develop on any rock.

And basically noone or nothing in the me universe ever learns anything apparently that new life will develop ai and there we go again.

Based on the available information, the ingame presentation or atleast my interpretation of it I'd have to sum up this part of the plot as.

1. Have a small problem and proclaim it to be a huge problem. Or rather having no problem, but imagining one.
2. Create an enourmously wastefull, illogical, disproportionate and "evil" temporary non solution to the above.
3. Repeat the 2nd for an incredible long time.
4. Arbitrarily create 3 new temporary non solutions to the imagined problem.
5. Billions of years later... Nothing has changed...

Whatever anyone have ever accused any government of redtape and inefficiency would never ever be able to compaire with this. 

An analogue to the reapings would be for humanity to build huge armies and nuclear weapons. Then invade and glass africa. Then burn it down some more. Then spend ginourmous ressources to asphalt it over. To prevent chimpanzees from potentially overtaking us, but never ever touching apes in south america that might do the same.

Compaire all of the above with the simplicity and obviousness of: Reapers reap because they find us as tasty as we do bacon, and they just don't care about us.

The plot is a Rube Goldberg machine imho.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 16 mars 2013 - 11:48 .

[KiwiQuiche]

lolno

[Baronesa]

Endings are still crap

Period

[otis0310]

The endings are foolish nonsense. The EC makes the child appear more like a child though, explaining his nonsense to an adult thinking to himself it makes sense now.

Ever hear a child try to explain something complex like where rain comes from? What is thunder? Cute and funny, but complete gibberish, and the child thinks he is making sense. Same here.

I prefer simple nonsense to nonsense explained by a 5 year old, less insulting that way, but not much.

[Applepie_Svk]

otis0310 wrote...

I prefer simple nonsense to nonsense explained by a 5 year old, less insulting that way, but not much.

You know what is funny about this ? Leviathans talked about this AI as about an intelligence... but there is nothing intelligent about it 

[aj2070]

In short, the reapers and "catalyst" are a flawed AI (probably closer to VI). In my opinion, if you compare AIs presented in game; the geth vs. EDI vs. the reapers, the geth and EDI both adapt and evolve who and what they are based on their interactions with the universe. Reapers and the catalyst as their mouth piece simply stick to the same routine despite several flaws in it; example comment from catalyst to the effect that organics are more resourceful than reapers thought.

[Exile Isan]

Honestly the Citadel DLC made me hate the ending even more that I already did. Goddamn it! Shepard deserved better!

[Ar7emis]

Nope, the ending is still utterly abysmal IMO. Fortunately, Citadel provided a jumping-off point where I can stop playing and pretend the horrors of the last hour never happened.

[TJBartlemus]

 Pass or Fail? : Extended Cut - http://social.biowar...33/polls/44393/

[Mobius-Silent]

78stonewobble wrote...
If the worst case scenario was possible and did happen. It really isn't that bad. The god ai obviously just left after it wiped everyone out and let organic life develop again.

Not at all, a suitably advanced machine intellegence would have no trouble scrubbing the galaxy of all organic material, simply using planetoids as material for their megastructures would do the trick, let alone things like persistant nanoplagues.

78stonewobble wrote...
If the worst case scenario is very unlikely. There is a good chance that the Reapers are destroying more life than they are saving.

Not at all, there is a finite limit to the amount of organic life the galaxy can hold, we are terribly inefficient, if one cycles worth of life were left eventually they would dominate and prevent new life from evolving, simply via colonisation, thats just the way we are. Remember, the vast majority of the "casualties" in a harvesting are sent to the processing ships and are "preserved" as far as the Catalyst is concerned, they are not deaths. Compared to a full-on galactic war the loss of life (due the Catalyst's definition) is very small. The Galaxy, as of ME2 holds more "life" that would ever have been possible even without an organic/synthetic war.

78stonewobble wrote...
If the worst case scenario is so unlikely, that it's nigh impossible. Then all the Reapers are doing is killing life. Obviously fully contrary to their intended purpose.

It isn't. It's quite clear (Buy the EC) what is true and what the Catalys't motivation was, it's classic Azimov:  Synthetics with with modified 3-laws programming finding loopholes that allow them to act counter to the creators intent, this is not rocket surgery.

78stonewobble wrote...
However even if gods (the uber AI) are impossible, that does leave room for conflict between organics and synthetics. Apart from the supposed AI god, then the Reapers are the next most powerfull thing out there. Which means that instead of Reapings they could just intervene and stop that conflict at specific points. Like the galactic watchmen or police.

The Reapers are _currently_ the most powerful thing out there, by sheer numbers, but they weren't in the beginning. Stealth and subterfuge ensure that the "losses" are minimal. The reapers would need to constantly monitor the whole galaxy and infiltrate and suppress such developments, which is _just_ what the Leviathans were doing, and it didn't work for them. Also the destruction of a Reaper is a massive loss, it's the equivilent of losing an entire cycle's worth of life, _that_ is counter to their purpose, so all out combat is not an option.

78stonewobble wrote...
If organics are on the verge of developing AI to do their bidding. Give em friggin vacuum robots (and what not) to fully prevent the need to enslave the AI and thus preventing conflict in the first place.

If my toaster one day decides to be the first astronaut toaster in space. I'd be fine with that. I'd get a new toaster that doesn't have ambitions.

It's about immortality not labour, organics create advanced tech to overcome mortality, on the way they create imortal, emotionless synthetics, and they both fear and envy the synthetics they've created. The only way to satiate that need is to give the organics the immortality they are searching for... another reason building a reaper out of them seem like a good idea to the Catalyst. Hence why Synthisis is a beter option from the Catalyst's perspective, Organics can finally work on immortality directly and the synthetics get emotions that allow them to value the lives of Organics inherrently rather than simply an optional intellectual value, hence mitigating the fear and envy from the organics.

78stonewobble wrote...
Which is why the conflict between synthetics and organics is a silly concept in the first place viewed from a rational perspective. Like most other conflict it would have to be due to emotions / faulty logic / faulty programming. Unless we're speaking about ressource conflicts, but space is too vast for that. It would come into play only over multiple billions of years if ever.

You are mistaken, being rational also involves factoring in the fact that not all actors will act rationally. And that rationality is also amoral, which organics _will_ take issue with. Being purely rational with large number of lives is _precisely_ what the Catalyst is doing, as Garrus said "Ruthless Calculus"

78stonewobble wrote...
I also view the catalyst solutions (endings) as non solutions as per the ingame information on them. Control keeps the reapings, because pure life can develop on any rock. Synthesis keeps the reapings, because pure life can develop on any rock. Destroy keeps the reapings, albeit delayed, because life can develop on any rock.

The Catalyst has _nothing_ to do with the ending options. The software, hardware and triggers all come from the crucible and were added by previous races, all the Catalyst does is ennumerate them for you and the Relay network does what it says on the tin "Relay network", it relay's the effect... through a network.

In a pervious script the Catalyst states that the Crucible docking has cut off it's control of the Reapers and they are acting on their own volitation, while that is no longer the case, the writers intent is clear, the Catalyst is a passive observer by the time the Crucible is docked, it has opinions but it neither created this situation nor can resolve the situation.

78stonewobble wrote...
1. Have a small problem and proclaim it to be a huge problem. Or rather having no problem, but imagining one.
2. Create an enourmously wastefull, illogical, disproportionate and "evil" temporary non solution to the above.
3. Repeat the 2nd for an incredible long time.
4. Arbitrarily create 3 new temporary non solutions to the imagined problem.
5. Billions of years later... Nothing has changed...

Again, the Catalyst did not create the 3 options. The Catalyst's logic is fine, if horrific.

Once people actually accept the premises that the writers are telling you are an immutable part of the world and let go of the mistaken notion that the Catalyst dictates the 3 options (Which is due to the OC ending being a dialogue train wreck) the _intent_ of the ending becames clear.

Don't get me wrong, even after the EC it was _terribly_ done, but the idea was sound.

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 16 mars 2013 - 05:12 .

[Blind2Society]

I just finished Citadel last night and it was absolutely brilliant. The constant laughs were great.

Of course there were a couple major disappointments. The Tali bit felt like a slap in the face just like the refuse ending and not adding Kasumi romance really irked me (especially with more talk of Mr. Priiiiiize).

That said, it didn't change my mind about ME3 overall at all. Still an overall bad SP game with occasional moments of brilliance.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 16 mars 2013 - 05:07 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...
1. Have a small problem and proclaim it to be a huge problem. Or rather having no problem, but imagining one.
2. Create an enourmously wastefull, illogical, disproportionate and "evil" temporary non solution to the above.
3. Repeat the 2nd for an incredible long time.
4. Arbitrarily create 3 new temporary non solutions to the imagined problem.
5. Billions of years later... Nothing has changed...

Again, the Catalyst did not create the 3 options. The Catalyst's logic is fine, if horrific.

Once people actually accept the premises that the writers are telling you are an immutable part of the world and let go of the mistaken notion that the Catalyst dictates the 3 options (Which is due to the OC ending being a dialogue train wreck) the _intent_ of the ending becames clear.

Don't get me wrong, even after the EC it was _terribly_ done, but the idea was sound.

Crucible plot is wrong at so many level, it´s not clear who and how they made it... from lore we know that Reapers start each cycle by closing the relay network and cutting head of galactic civilizations, even Catalyst stated that Shepard was first who ever made it so far - so how could any of civilizations built something which is supposed to work with unkown entity on unkown place on Citadel ?

The answer is easy A - ending is red herring B - Crucible came from Leviathans/Catalyst or both

4-

3 choices were given by Catalyst, for which he doesn´t even need to summon Shepard, he could proceed as was planned and left Shepard down on the platform.  But 1 of 3 choices is against of what intelligence was programed for and that´s preservation of life for all costs - it´s simply bashing his whole purpose and all the effort so intelligence not just have no reason to give Shepard a chance to destroy Reapers, but it simply cannot give Shepard this chance.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 16 mars 2013 - 05:28 .

[Nykara]

Does anyone else find it completely ironic that the created always rebel against the creators and we are the solution guys did exactly what they are supposed to be protecting the galaxy from?
They rebelled against their creators. They are just a program and I am really starting to think that even with the crucible they should not be trusted, or that their programming is in fact still flawed.

If Bioware is heading towards synthesis being the ultimate goal, if they are in fact intending for it to be the next stage of evolution then seriously that would have to be the worst sci fi ending ever. It's like creating a universe where nothing is unique if everyone is just walking around all peaceful and smiling and happy all the time. Creeeeeepy.

Control is really just one step towards Synthesis as well without going directly to Synthesis. It's more like waiting until the universe evolves on it's own towards that end goal ( it can't be forced ). Still creepy.

If all of that was true and actually happened and if, what the catalyst said is supposed to be the truth - then I state again that it really is a terrible ending for a sci-fi. As in something I would expect from a really bad B grade sci fi.

[cyrslash1974]

I think that the catalyst's logic is all but not fine. For example, all synthetics which want to destroy organics are controled by reapers. Or read the codec on Heretics (ME2) to understand that the geths don't want war against organics. And I have a lot of similar examples through the 3 games.

The EC is a good job - really - but the message inside the endings is a "mess" for me. The solutions proposed are bad.

[78stonewobble]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

1:
Not at all, a suitably advanced machine intellegence would have no trouble scrubbing the galaxy of all organic material, simply using planetoids as material for their megastructures would do the trick, let alone things like persistant nanoplagues.

2:
Not at all, there is a finite limit to the amount of organic life the galaxy can hold, we are terribly inefficient, if one cycles worth of life were left eventually they would dominate and prevent new life from evolving, simply via colonisation, thats just the way we are. Remember, the vast majority of the "casualties" in a harvesting are sent to the processing ships and are "preserved" as far as the Catalyst is concerned, they are not deaths. Compared to a full-on galactic war the loss of life (due the Catalyst's definition) is very small. The Galaxy, as of ME2 holds more "life" that would ever have been possible even without an organic/synthetic war.

3:
It isn't. It's quite clear (Buy the EC) what is true and what the Catalys't motivation was, it's classic Azimov:  Synthetics with with modified 3-laws programming finding loopholes that allow them to act counter to the creators intent, this is not rocket surgery.

4:
The Reapers are _currently_ the most powerful thing out there, by sheer numbers, but they weren't in the beginning. Stealth and subterfuge ensure that the "losses" are minimal. The reapers would need to constantly monitor the whole galaxy and infiltrate and suppress such developments, which is _just_ what the Leviathans were doing, and it didn't work for them. Also the destruction of a Reaper is a massive loss, it's the equivilent of losing an entire cycle's worth of life, _that_ is counter to their purpose, so all out combat is not an option.

5:
It's about immortality not labour, organics create advanced tech to overcome mortality, on the way they create imortal, emotionless synthetics, and they both fear and envy the synthetics they've created. The only way to satiate that need is to give the organics the immortality they are searching for... another reason building a reaper out of them seem like a good idea to the Catalyst. Hence why Synthisis is a beter option from the Catalyst's perspective, Organics can finally work on immortality directly and the synthetics get emotions that allow them to value the lives of Organics inherrently rather than simply an optional intellectual value, hence mitigating the fear and envy from the organics.

6:
You are mistaken, being rational also involves factoring in the fact that not all actors will act rationally. And that rationality is also amoral, which organics _will_ take issue with. Being purely rational with large number of lives is _precisely_ what the Catalyst is doing, as Garrus said "Ruthless Calculus"

7:
The Catalyst has _nothing_ to do with the ending options. The software, hardware and triggers all come from the crucible and were added by previous races, all the Catalyst does is ennumerate them for you and the Relay network does what it says on the tin "Relay network", it relay's the effect... through a network.

In a pervious script the Catalyst states that the Crucible docking has cut off it's control of the Reapers and they are acting on their own volitation, while that is no longer the case, the writers intent is clear, the Catalyst is a passive observer by the time the Crucible is docked, it has opinions but it neither created this situation nor can resolve the situation.

8:
Again, the Catalyst did not create the 3 options. The Catalyst's logic is fine, if horrific.

Once people actually accept the premises that the writers are telling you are an immutable part of the world and let go of the mistaken notion that the Catalyst dictates the 3 options (Which is due to the OC ending being a dialogue train wreck) the _intent_ of the ending becames clear.

Don't get me wrong, even after the EC it was _terribly_ done, but the idea was sound.

1: Which in itself serves as evidence that it has never happened. If it had happened there would be no life any where and no Reapers. That is hasn't happened in 13,2 billion years would statistically suggest that it is extremely unlikely. An AI that powerfull would not have any reason to exterminate organics. We would be less than fleas.

2: Obviously I think that life also requires a certain quality of life. The Catalyst obviously has no such distinctions.
Yet... Room isn't a problem. Theres a galaxy right next to ours... And a galaxy right next to that one... And so on. A fact that the Reapers conveniently ignore.

3: No it's neither rocket science or brain surgery. It is just stupid. While you can make a crime story where the motive is deliberately left out or you can make the motive belong in crazy territory. Here they attempted logic without the underlying logic to make any sense or even be valid as a motive.

4: It wouldn't be much riskier than what they are ignoring right now. Potential life in globular clusters surrounding the galaxy or life in neighbouring galaxies. Your points are valid though the Reapers are allready ignoring massive losses of life by not reaping before civilisation develop the gun, the A-bomb or any number of milestones which potentially costs enormous amounts of life throughout the galaxy.  

5: Well most other interpretations of the root of the conflict has been the usage of AI as forced labour.

The fact that I, myself have no interest in immortality would seem to suggest that not all organics would lead to this type of conflict. Even a long full life of a 1000 years seem to not have ruined eg. Asari civilisation and I would probably bet that most organics, as long as they have a limited capacity for learning would tire of such an existence eventually. Likewise even AI is probably unable to develop into infinity and would probably plateau at some point. I don't think we can guess that AI's in general would not have emotions. Ingame evidence seem to suggest they have the potential for irrational behaviour, which could be construed as a type of emotional interference.

The immortality thing is a good point though.

6: My point was that the Catalyst is decidedly non rational. He is trying to save lives, from something that presumably doesn't exist. There is nothing amoral per say about his rationality. It IS moral to kill 1 million people to save 2 million. It becomes amoral and non rational when he's just killing / saving for no reason.

7: It still doesn't make sense though. Ennumerating solutions as solutions when they aren't. Even by his own logic.

8: Here's a steak. It's round, full of holes, contains no meat and is obviously a cheese. Thats how the ending is. If you totally buy the explanation that cheese is steak... Then you can have a lovely steak.

I'd run with it if I were self experimenting with sensory perception or association... But in a game and from a storytelling perspective? Hell naw.

My suspension of disbelieve only goes thus far.