324 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Well, technically, having casual armor is fine. It's just that Bioware's first representation of her, was with an outfit so similar to Miranda, tight legging, full blown ass, breasts got bigger, etc, it just shouted "sex appeal" to me and many others. Now, I'm not saying Ashley can't let her hair down and look pretty, the fact is, she is pretty, but Bioware wanted more, for reasons unknown to me, but I could certainly guess. It doesn't help that the concept art basically backs up a lot of our displeasure towards Ashley's "new look".

[Iakus]

Omega Torsk wrote...
This comparison really needs to be plastered on these threads every time the subject resurrects itself a new thread opens up. The only major difference between the two Ashleys is that she went from a B to a C cup (and if you really think about it, every female in ME1 had the same body model. When we get that specific, we're nitpicking) and that she let her hair down.

And her uniform went to a V-neck, miniskirt-looking jacket, and thigh-high boots while every other female Alliance officer had a sensible-looking uniform?

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

That's stupid.

There's that word again...

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

We got to drop this ridiculous attitude that any kind of 'sexualization' is obviously because BioWare wants to bring in 13-year-boys and basement dwellers. It's flat-out nonsense.

David.  

"Ashely's reappearence in the series, we let her hair down and gave her sex appeal."

She had sex appeal before ME3. 

[AresKeith]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Ummm David, her blue armor isn't an issue that's still heavy armor.

The fact that's her ONLY armored appearance is an issue

So... the issue is that she only has one set of armor?

I'm not talking the issue with Ashley in general

I mean in terms of her having armor

[David7204]

You ever heard the term 'effortless perfection'? It has a lot do with this.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

iakus wrote...

Omega Torsk wrote...
This comparison really needs to be plastered on these threads every time the subject resurrects itself a new thread opens up. The only major difference between the two Ashleys is that she went from a B to a C cup (and if you really think about it, every female in ME1 had the same body model. When we get that specific, we're nitpicking) and that she let her hair down.

And her uniform went to a V-neck, miniskirt-looking jacket, and thigh-high boots while every other female Alliance officer had a sensible-looking uniform?

I think that actually is a legitimate criticism.

[Morlath]

David7204 wrote...

We got to drop this ridiculous attitude that any kind of 'sexualization' is obviously because BioWare wants to bring in 13-year-boys and basement dwellers. It's flat-out nonsense.

Never happen.

Any type of attractive female or improvement of a female character is going to be labelled as such.

People seem to think that wanting a woman to be "sexy" automatically reduces her to a sex object. Maturity is alive and well and rolling its eyes at such generalisations.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

You ever heard the term 'effortless perfection'? It has a lot do with this.

Woman wanting to be beautiful and self-esteem issues?  

Did Shepard not make this clear in ME1.  Did the fans not make this clear in ME1? 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

One could interpret Ashley saying in ME1 that she had to "bury a lot of things" in order to progress in the military as a reason for the change in appearance. She did have self-esteem issues and she does more confident in ME3.

I see it as character progression.

[David7204]

Err, no. It doesn't have anything to do with that, I don't think.

It's a feminist term, actually. It's about standards of beauty.

Essentially, it means that beauty is a good and desirable thing, but only so long as it's accidental. Only so long as it's effortless. Because putting effort into beauty implies you're shallow or stupid because you shouldn't want beauty, you should just have it. (Remember, 'beauty' might mean something like full breasts.)

It's not quite that cut and dry, but the basic premise is solid.

Modifié par David7204, 10 mai 2013 - 10:56 .

[Morlath]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

One could interpret Ashley saying in ME1 that she had to "bury a lot of things" in order to progress in the military as a reason for the change in appearance. She did have self-esteem issues and she does more confident in ME3.

I see it as character progression.

Exactly so.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Err, no. It doesn't have anything to do with that, I don't think.

It's a feminist term, actually. It's about standards of beauty.

Essentially, it means that beauty is a good and desirable thing, but only so long as it's accidental. Only so long as it's effortless. Because putting effort into beauty implies you're shallow or stupid because you shouldn't want beauty, you should just have it. (Remember, 'beauty' might mean something like full breasts.)

It's not quite that cut and dry, but the basic premise is solid.

I see what you're saying.  I'm just trying to express, that I couldn't see Ashley changing her appearence like that, especially in terms of combat, based off how she represented herself in the other two games and how I personally took what she said.  The thing is, those "standards" of beauty, would they be relevant to ME3's timeline, in terms of the future and how beauty is percieved?  I guess, a Miranda of our time, wouldn't be so different from a Miranda of ME3's time.  Big ass, great rack, brunette, and so on.  

In regards to how her development was viewed in my mindset, it just seems a bit silly, that she needs to put in that effort.  As I said, I have nothing against Ashley as a character, letting her hair down, being more open, in a sense - this would of worked perfectly for the Citadel DLC... right before the end - you see that tough and great chick, in a whole new light, the hair down, nice dress, etc.  It would of been wonderful.

But "we gave her sex appeal" ruins any of that for me. 

[TheRealJayDee]

Morlath wrote...

David7204 wrote...

We got to drop this ridiculous attitude that any kind of 'sexualization' is obviously because BioWare wants to bring in 13-year-boys and basement dwellers. It's flat-out nonsense.

Never happen.

Any type of attractive female or improvement of a female character is going to be labelled as such.

People seem to think that wanting a woman to be "sexy" automatically reduces her to a sex object. Maturity is alive and well and rolling its eyes at such generalisations.

I can only repeat, again and again, I have no problem with "sexy" female characters and I don't condemn anyone for wanting characters to be "sexy". Thing is - I think that in terms of video game characters Ash was an "attractive female" in ME1 and didn't need any "improvement". 

The changes made in regards to Ash's appearance were not changes that happened out of character development reasons, but of Bioware's desire to sex her up to make her more appealing. They said so themselves, and every "I didn't like Ashley before, but damn, she is hot in ME3" comment proves them right.

I just don't think that is the way to handle established characters. Do with new characters what you want, but don't **** with established characters for no good reason.

[spirosz]

^

[David7204]

So what if Ashley wore her hair down on the ship and elsewhere but put it up in a bun in combat?

[EpicBoot2daFace]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Morlath wrote...

David7204 wrote...

We got to drop this ridiculous attitude that any kind of 'sexualization' is obviously because BioWare wants to bring in 13-year-boys and basement dwellers. It's flat-out nonsense.

Never happen.

Any type of attractive female or improvement of a female character is going to be labelled as such.

People seem to think that wanting a woman to be "sexy" automatically reduces her to a sex object. Maturity is alive and well and rolling its eyes at such generalisations.

I can only repeat, again and again, I have no problem with "sexy" female characters and I don't condemn anyone for wanting characters to be "sexy". Thing is - I think that in terms of video game characters Ash was an "attractive female" in ME1 and didn't need any "improvement". 

The changes made in regards to Ash's appearance were not changes that happened out of character development reasons, but of Bioware's desire to sex her up to make her more appealing. They said so themselves, and every "I didn't like Ashley before, but damn, she is hot in ME3" comment proves them right.

I just don't think that is the way to handle established characters. Do with new characters what you want, but don't **** with established characters for no good reason.

I agree. The reason behind the change in appearance was not a good one. Sex appeal has it's place in games, but it should never be the sole reason for creating a character or altering an already established one. That said, I like to interpret it a certain way to make myself more immersed in the game. Thank God for that one line in ME1.

[Karlone123]

enayasoul wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

I liked Ashley's previous look, it was realistic, to me she was a good representation of how females could be realistically presented in video games. She had the sex appeal on a realistic scale, considering her personality to be the same level as well. I get that Ashley's appearence might needed to be updated, I hoped for a person who looked like she took her military career seriously with a few facial flaws like instead of a flawless face (unless her face was glossed up to hide it all). So to put it short I took Ashley seriously as a character, but then came her facial update and that seriousness took a deep plumet. Considering the lack of content added to her character, she's nothing more than eye candy, which is a shame because she had potential.

Miranda Lawson flawless appearence suits her character as her being was suppose to be about being perfect in every aspect. With Ashely, her being on just being a Human being is that Humans have flaws and I would expect (hope) for that to reflect off her appearence. Man, I am a whiner.

You have some valid points.  I too, wished Ashley's character was more developed but what's there really turned me off her character.

Miranda Lawson by far is superb!   A wonderful character.  Yvonne's did an awesome job!

I like it when characters appearence reflects off thier personalities, Garrus being emotionally troubled against Sidonis was shown from the scars he gained. He wasn't fresh faced, he looked quite insane during his loyalty mission. Ashely's face edit didn't do the character any justice for me. She claims to be a Human with flaws yet she looks like she trying to compete with Miranda on looking flawless. Topics like these are not easy to talk about without coming across sounding like demanding person on how someone looks.

I just want to get my point across, a human who knows she has flaws would add to the character if it was added to her appearence looking someone who has seen combat instead of being a model poster for the Alliance.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

So what if Ashley wore her hair down on the ship and elsewhere but put it up in a bun in combat?

I would have no complaints. 

Edit, well obviously there are certain development complaints, but those are minor at best.  

Modifié par spirosz, 10 mai 2013 - 11:33 .

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

So what if Ashley wore her hair down on the ship and elsewhere but put it up in a bun in combat?

That would be better.  It still would not fix the problem with her "uniform" but a step in the right direction.

In fact a "combat bun" mod was made by someone for the PC.

[MegaSovereign]

At least your favorite characters got something.

Sovereign didn't even get a boob job. He's just dead.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Karlone123 wrote...

enayasoul wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

I liked Ashley's previous look, it was realistic, to me she was a good representation of how females could be realistically presented in video games. She had the sex appeal on a realistic scale, considering her personality to be the same level as well. I get that Ashley's appearence might needed to be updated, I hoped for a person who looked like she took her military career seriously with a few facial flaws like instead of a flawless face (unless her face was glossed up to hide it all). So to put it short I took Ashley seriously as a character, but then came her facial update and that seriousness took a deep plumet. Considering the lack of content added to her character, she's nothing more than eye candy, which is a shame because she had potential.

Miranda Lawson flawless appearence suits her character as her being was suppose to be about being perfect in every aspect. With Ashely, her being on just being a Human being is that Humans have flaws and I would expect (hope) for that to reflect off her appearence. Man, I am a whiner.

You have some valid points.  I too, wished Ashley's character was more developed but what's there really turned me off her character.

Miranda Lawson by far is superb!   A wonderful character.  Yvonne's did an awesome job!

I like it when characters appearence reflects off thier personalities, Garrus being emotionally troubled against Sidonis was shown from the scars he gained. He wasn't fresh faced, he looked quite insane during his loyalty mission. Ashely's face edit didn't do the character any justice for me. She claims to be a Human with flaws yet she looks like she trying to compete with Miranda on looking flawless. Topics like these are not easy to talk about without coming across sounding like demanding person on how someone looks.

I just want to get my point across, a human who knows she has flaws would add to the character if it was added to her appearence looking someone who has seen combat instead of being a model poster for the Alliance.

I disagree. That sounds like something Miranda has said in the past. "I look perfect but I'm not." When does Ashley ever say she looks perfect? She openly criticizes Miranda and her skin-tight suit.

[David7204]

I don't see any problem with Ashley's uniform.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Skin tone lightened? Well, so did Sheploo's. Nobody seems to care unless it's Ashley, though.

Because Sheploo is white, son.

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

I don't see any problem with Ashley's uniform.

Look at Kaidan's outfit

Look at Ashley's outfit

Which one looks like they're wearing a military uniform?