124 réponses à ce sujet

[shards7]

Maybe we should all buy like 10 bucks in psp's so that the super amazing and, dare i say, handsome broJo can get a bonus and assures us that the ME3 MP can stay alive for 13 more years?

[blaster1 112]

CosmicBuffalo wrote...

The odds of getting 3 UR's in a row is:  10%*10%*10% (or 10% to the 3rd power) = 0.1% or 1 in a thousand

The odds of getting 42 packs with no UR's:  %90^42 (90% to the 42nd power) = 1.2% or 12 in a thousand

You may AVERAGE a single UR per million credits spent, but you are not guaranteed one.  You may get several rather quick, and then have a long dry spell.  In Psychology, this is called Variable Ratio Positive Reinforcement, and is scientifically proven to generate the highest number of 'responses' (packs being opened) in the shortest amount of time.  Wanting a UR to drop with the every purchase is the same thing as wanting a slot machine to pay out every time you pull the handle.  Granted, it would be nice for those of us who simply want all the new weapons (cough*Lancer*cough), but it's not going to happen, Bioware would go broke.  You have to earn them.

lol i had 84 PSP's without UR's in a row so %90^82 = 0.0143...% = 0.143... in a thousand = 1.43 in 10 000 and 143 in a million
I have been VERY unlucky...

[blaster1 112]

jamesbrown3 wrote...

Maybe we should all buy like 10 bucks in psp's so that the super amazing and, dare i say, handsome broJo can get a bonus and assures us that the ME3 MP can stay alive for 13 more years?

Knowing my luck i will end up with filling up the remaining characters comtumization ( i have them all at least once) no UR's and a ****load of lvl 4 ammo.... I am not going to spend any money on this game, never done never will

[Whlte Rlder]

blaster1 112 wrote...

jamesbrown3 wrote...

Maybe we should all buy like 10 bucks in psp's so that the super amazing and, dare i say, handsome broJo can get a bonus and assures us that the ME3 MP can stay alive for 13 more years?

Knowing my luck i will end up with filling up the remaining characters comtumization ( i have them all at least once) no UR's and a ****load of lvl 4 ammo.... I am not going to spend any money on this game, never done never will

you only have 6 character cards left to get. And you have all the ultra rates at least once exept the spitfire.


Liar.


You forget we can check manifests now.

[Eelectrica]

Interesting, but no one has said that UR's should be given away freely.
Just some of the random could be taken out of getting one, for the right price.

[SeasonedTurtle]

Whlte Rlder wrote...

blaster1 112 wrote...

jamesbrown3 wrote...

Maybe we should all buy like 10 bucks in psp's so that the super amazing and, dare i say, handsome broJo can get a bonus and assures us that the ME3 MP can stay alive for 13 more years?

Knowing my luck i will end up with filling up the remaining characters comtumization ( i have them all at least once) no UR's and a ****load of lvl 4 ammo.... I am not going to spend any money on this game, never done never will

you only have 6 character cards left to get. And you have all the ultra rates at least once exept the spitfire.


Liar.


You forget we can check manifests now.

I think you misunderstood that post. There's a difference between not having any URs and not getting any URs in packs purchased in the future.

[Whlte Rlder]

I did. For some reason I read it more or less from the brackets... I should go.

[ABjerre]

JediHarbinger wrote...
TL;DR

SavagelyEpic wrote...

wat

Flaming Snake wrote...

Please create a tl;dr.

You guys better not be complaining about store-mechanisms in other threads, because this thread basicly answers anyhting one would want to know about the store and its function. I really hope that you can conjure more enthusiasm and energy in other aspects of your lives, otherwise i fear that your greates achivement will be flippin' burgers on the local "Mickey D".

Great post OP. I was thinking of making one similar, but you beat me with 4 hours. Never the less, with the discussions that have been raging back and forth on the forums lately, we (read: probably some of the newer people here) really needed some clarification this matter.

Modifié par ABjerre, 15 mars 2013 - 02:58 .

[Jon Phoenix]

I'm a behavioural psychologist who studies gambling and I endorse the system Bioware implemented for MP. Why because it works. We probably wouldn't be having this conversation a year on had people been able to buy the stuff they wanted, or been able to max their manifest completely. Those are the people who leave the game, and those people don't provide income.

I may be in the minority but I believe the system does more good by maintaining the player base than it does by earning money specifically (but the two are not mutually exclusive). However, since retaliation I think the challenge system also has provided some good targeted goals for people to attain over and above filling out weapon slots which has also provided a nice impetus for players to continue to play. I have a feeling the game might have died out were it not for the timely intervention of the challenge system. I was certainly pulled back in by it.

I firmly believe than Bioware succeeded in transcending the simple hoard mode and making a truly great experience that has some lasting challenge to it. That lasting challenge (both in skill and unlocks) are probably the reason why this particular hoard mode did not end up being a fad that is easily replaced by a newer fresher game experience.

My brother put it nicely the other day when I asked if he wanted to play multiplayer. I was playing citadel at the time, and his response? "Of course, there are still things to unlock and challenges to complete".

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Interesting story,Op and I agree.
But,I´m interested,why is not possible to buy specific things from store.Some games have that option.
I´m not saying it has to be only option,but for some people with more money than time(who like video games,btw),it should be available.

[HolyAvenger]

This much logic and sense has no place on BSN.


Well done, OP.

[Sacrificial Bias]

Given that this is the longest time in which I spent playing a single game(other than MMOs), I certainly don't feel as much buyer's remorse from buying the packs as some would.

But as someone who maxed out his rare manifest(other than gears), I feel it worth pointing out that my willingness to purchase further packs for a 10% chance every $3 to get an ultra-rare, or a chance to upgrade +1 for a current UR weapon, is not worth it to me.

Sorry guys

[Greyfrogx]

@zorinho

well as many will have pointed out if you could buy weapons and characters then half the players would come in, buy their harrier X, play seven or eight games and then ****** off to whatever pvp shooter came out this week.



If why can't there be a pack called
"Five Shotgun amps of random levels"
is what you're asking then stop stealing my dreams!

[ssxpro]

I think the pricing went a bit wrong along the way. I'm guessing every party gets a cut (which would also explain the price difference between PC and console packs), but the price is still far too high.

At £2.39, I have never and will never buy a PSP. That amount of money, even if I got two brand new ultra rare weapons, is inconsistent with the cost of the game. If you decide to buy the game at release, and pay say £40 (hopefully you'll pay a lot less, but the figure works as a rough guide), and that game has 20 weapons, does that mean that the characters, the levels, the story, the music, the sound effects, the (massively etc.) were free? If a PSP is £2.39, I'd expect to have to pay in excess of £1000 for the complete game. Thankfully, you can get the entire trilogy for £40. As a result, surely a PSP is only 20 pence or so. To make things even worse, in three years time, if I want to dig out a Mass Effect game (and thanks to the brilliant characters and story I probably will) the original game I bought will still be there to play. Meanwhile, any PSPs opened in multiplayer... gone. So why would I spend lots of money on something that won't be there? It gets even worse as your inventory fills too. For those close to maxing their rares, £2.39 could be spent to get only some Level IV ammo upgrades. Even with my weak inventory, I could end up with repeats only. Perhaps if an ultra rare was guaranteed after rares were maxed then things would look a little more tempting, but the possibility of £2.39 for nothing... pah!

If the transaction was actually micro, say £0.30 / $0.50 for a PSP, certainly the profit per pack would be cut radically, but I'm certain that there'd be a correspondingly vast leap in sales. At that price, I would definitely have given in by now and purchased 10 or so packs, meaning I would have spent far more than I currently have. In addition, at the lower price, it would be easier to accept that the things I'd purchased would be gone. I've heard the argument "paying for a service", but when that's holding a different configuration of pixels with a different set of statistics, it really doesn't seem like a £2.39 service. At 20 or 30 pence per pack, it's possible to accept a few duff packs, and the knowledge that the service will be withdrawn.

Sadly, we are thankful to those that have spent vast amounts of money on packs. I've heard rumours of people spending hundreds of pounds/dollars. For them, I sincerely hope that it has been worth it, but I do feel some sympathy that it is their spending that has kept our online play afloat.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Greyfrogx wrote...

@zorinho

well as many will have pointed out if you could buy weapons and characters then half the players would come in, buy their harrier X, play seven or eight games and then ****** off to whatever pvp shooter came out this week.



If why can't there be a pack called
"Five Shotgun amps of random levels"
is what you're asking then stop stealing my dreams!

I may be wrong,but if I pay X amount of money for Y item,I would play crap ton of it,to gain some return to investment.
But it is just me.

[Pakundo]

Your post is nice,.but it implies the game is mostly a console game (talking about used game sales) and that the balance of UR drop rates is good as it is (that's highly debatable).

[Barge6000]

Great post, seems like most people feel that balance is out at the moment, myself included. I know i would go back to playing this game regularly if i thought i could get some unlocks. Also, who in their right mind would spend £2.39 for a 10% chance of getting a random ur upgrade!? I wouldnt spend 20p on that.

[HolyAvenger]

Pakundo wrote...

Your post is nice,.but it implies the game is mostly a console game (talking about used game sales) .

It is. Between the two consoles, they have something like 70% of the playerbase.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Barge6000 wrote...

Great post, seems like most people feel that balance is out at the moment, myself included. I know i would go back to playing this game regularly if i thought i could get some unlocks. Also, who in their right mind would spend £2.39 for a 10% chance of getting a random ur upgrade!? I wouldnt spend 20p on that.

I have interesting little story,no ME3 MP connected,but still.
My friend was talking on cell phone with his brother (I was present),who lived in Norway.They talked about a half an hour and friend´s brother told,he would pay about 150 Eur for that call.
So,value for same things is different for different people.

Modifié par zorinho20, 15 mars 2013 - 08:51 .

[Dokteur Kill]

CosmicBuffalo wrote...
In Psychology, this is called Variable Ratio Positive Reinforcement, and is scientifically proven to generate the highest number of 'responses' (packs being opened) in the shortest amount of time.

This is only partially true. The ratio needs to be high enough (basically, the reinforcement needs to be somewhat predictable), or you get "ratio strain", which can actually turn the reinforcement mechanism into a negative one.

Wanting a UR to drop with the every purchase is the same thing as wanting a slot machine to pay out every time you pull the handle.

Not really, but I'll get back to that from a slightly different point of view later.

Bioware would go broke.

No, they wouldn't. But more importantly, they probably wouldn't even lose any money from it, and might actually make more (for reasons I'll get back to). But the short version: People who only have the URs left probably aren't a source of microtransaction income.

Now that that's been said, let me give you my analysis.

In order for the microtransaction model to actually make money, BW need to motivate several different groups of people to keep playing the game. Basically, not everyone is going to be spending money on packs, but even the ones who don't add value to the game. There needs to be enough active players in the game so that the spenders can actually find a match.

So, how do you motivate people to keep playing the game? For one thing, by making the game itself interesting. BW have done a good job of releasing DLC that freshens up the game, and there are plenty of options to play around with. By now, either you (still) find the game interesting or you do not, and in the latter case you've probably already quit.

And then there are the secondary motivation mechanisms. There's the challenge system, which I feel that BW have pulled off quite well. Sure, it's a classical example of gamification applied to... well, games, but it works. And the challenge system motivates you to try out options that you've overlooked previously, which extends the game's lifespan for each individual player. The only challenge I feel they've missed with is N7 mastery, since it is in more or less direct opposition both to another challenge (Map mastery) and to the other progression system, namely the unlocks. At least, in my case, I can't jump right into gold after promoting, so going for N7 mastery slows down other parts of the progression system, making it feel more like a hindrance than a goal. But other than that: Good job, BW.

Finally, there's the "progression" system: the unlocks. Now, here we have to divide up the player base a bit to see how it affects them. For one thing, you have the players who are still unlocking all of the "guaranteed" content. Everything up to the rares. The next group is the one who only have URs left. And finally, you have the people with maxed manifests (or at least that have everything they are interested in unlocked) who are still playing.

Let's start with the last group: I'm sorry, but your opinion doesn't matter. Or, to be more diplomatic: you obviously don't need any further motivation to keep playing the game, and EA aren't making any money off you anyway. So just go on having fun.

For the first group, the store works as intended. It's a positive reinforcement inbetween games, giving you a feeling of progression even if you don't get exactly the progression you want. This is also the group to which it is most attractive to spend actual cash on packs in order to speed up progression. This is the group that EA wants the most to keep playing, but in order for them to keep playing there needs to be enough active players around that they can find a game.

And then there's the group that falls in the middle. Here's where it's problematic. Now, keeping these players hanging around for a while more really helps maintain an ecosystem for the less experienced players to flourish in, so there's some value in motivating them to stay. But I strongly doubt that many of these players spend real cash, since the probability of getting any percieved value for your cash is so low. And the store can very quickly turn into a negative reinforcement for this group, which means that players who might still find the main part of the game fun can get demotivated by the very progression system which was supposed to keep them hooked. And the easiest way to keep them motivated is to extend the progression model that works so well for the first group. Give them a semi-predictable way of continuing their progression. Yes, I'm talking about a UR pack. It's no different from how the Vet pack works for UCs or SP/PSP works for Rares, it's the same progression model, only slower. And hey, it might wring some more cash out of a group that currently isn't spending any.

Modifié par Dokteur Kill, 15 mars 2013 - 09:33 .

[Dokteur Kill]

Jon Phoenix wrote...

I'm a behavioural psychologist who studies gambling and I endorse the system Bioware implemented for MP. Why because it works.

Does it, though? I think that depends on which group you fall in. 

I know that for me, the store is actually a negative reinforcement. I actually have more fun with the game if I stay out of the store. Buying packs feels more like a negative experience than a positive one. So now, the store is only something I visit if I'm low on consumables or if I've just promoted.

[Rodia Driftwood]

You make a very good case, OP. In fact, you sealed the case. The UR drop-rate discussion is over after this thread. Seriously, can we let it go now, guys?

[Lyria]

jamesbrown3 wrote...

Maybe we should all buy like 10 bucks in psp's so that the super amazing and, dare i say, handsome broJo can get a bonus and assures us that the ME3 MP can stay alive for 13 more years?

I wonder if we could Kickstarter a tribute to BroJo's handsomeness?

[Moofy76]

UR weapons aren't even really stronger or better than a lot of others right?
The drop rate for UR is way too low, should be about 20% from a PSP, a gold game will get you about what 80k credits which is about 80% of ONE PSP and that takes about 25-30min (if completed) of your time at least usually including lobby etc.

Would be nice if 100% war effort also gave 5% credits to encourage people to play more too. That's pretty stingy on BW half. I do think paying for DLC and having the ability to buy packs is fine. I'd never pay real money for packs though. I just didn't want to cheat to get to complete ME3 MP items (if I ever will).

[Siran]

Good read. 10/10, would read again.