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How to get the Destroy ending WITHOUT the need to commit genocide.


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#276
Errationatus

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'm trying to help you because all you're doing is embarrassing yourself, but if you insist on persisting, by all means. I'll go get the popcorn.

I'd advise you not employ this strategy in a bar full of soccer fans, though. B*tch out the team, b*tch out the fans, then claim you're not insulting present company? I don't suspect it would end well. Hence why you resort to the Internet, flamebaiting and taking umbrage at anyone who calls you out for it.


I also notice you still didn't actually address anything I said.   Have it your way.

#277
DeinonSlayer

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JakeMacDon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'm trying to help you because all you're doing is embarrassing yourself, but if you insist on persisting, by all means. I'll go get the popcorn.

I'd advise you not employ this strategy in a bar full of soccer fans, though. B*tch out the team, b*tch out the fans, then claim you're not insulting present company? I don't suspect it would end well. Hence why you resort to the Internet, flamebaiting and taking umbrage at anyone who calls you out for it.


I also notice you still didn't actually address anything I said.   Have it your way.

*finally notices your sig*

:o:lol::lol::lol:

U MAD, bro?

EDIT: Whoops, you changed that fast!

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 mars 2013 - 10:50 .


#278
Fixers0

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You know I don't consider destroying the geth as genocide, just as I don't think that throwing your PC in the garbage bin murder.

#279
Eterna

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Fixers0 wrote...

You know I don't consider destroying the geth as genocide, just as I don't think that throwing your PC in the garbage bin murder.


If you can't understand the reason a Geth and a Computer are different then I feel sorry for you. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 15 mars 2013 - 10:51 .


#280
Errationatus

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'm trying to help you because all you're doing is embarrassing yourself, but if you insist on persisting, by all means. I'll go get the popcorn.

I'd advise you not employ this strategy in a bar full of soccer fans, though. B*tch out the team, b*tch out the fans, then claim you're not insulting present company? I don't suspect it would end well. Hence why you resort to the Internet, flamebaiting and taking umbrage at anyone who calls you out for it.


I also notice you still didn't actually address anything I said.   Have it your way.

*finally notices your sig*

:o:lol::lol::lol:

U MAD, bro?


Can't resist the snipe, huh?  That so validates you.

The sig?  Naw, just some comedy. 

#281
Fixers0

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Eterna5 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

You know I don't consider destroying the geth as genocide, just as I don't think that throwing your PC in the garbage bin murder.


If you can't understand the reason a Geth and a Computer are different then I feel sorry for you. 


They're tools, that's all I need to know.

#282
Khelish

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JakeMacDon wrote...


Can't resist the snipe, huh?  That so validates you.

The sig?  Naw, just some comedy. 

So, picking on people that like Tali for some laughs isn't trolling? 

Seems legit... :D

#283
DeinonSlayer

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JakeMacDon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'm trying to help you because all you're doing is embarrassing yourself, but if you insist on persisting, by all means. I'll go get the popcorn.

I'd advise you not employ this strategy in a bar full of soccer fans, though. B*tch out the team, b*tch out the fans, then claim you're not insulting present company? I don't suspect it would end well. Hence why you resort to the Internet, flamebaiting and taking umbrage at anyone who calls you out for it.


I also notice you still didn't actually address anything I said.   Have it your way.

*finally notices your sig*

:o:lol::lol::lol:

U MAD, bro?


Can't resist the snipe, huh?  That so validates you.

The sig?  Naw, just some comedy. 

To address your point from earlier, even if I were to ignore the issue of trustworthiness entirely (both of the Reaper code, which we have no reason to trust, and of the Geth themselves), the Quarians are a bigger boon to the war effort. If you destroyed the heretics (which I did), they're worth 300 points more in war assets than the Geth. You were ordered specifically to get a fleet to provide logistical aid to the rest of the galaxy's forces. The Quarians are equipped for this. The Geth, on the other hand, are built for combat, but you aren't going to be moving organic troops or refugees in ships which have no air in them.

After Rannoch, we see Tali arranging the evacuation of a Turian colony on the Citadel and hear a news announcement about the Quarians taking the logistical strain off of the Turians if they survived. In the original script, Garrus' family died on Palaven unless the Quarians were around to evac them.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 mars 2013 - 10:58 .


#284
Errationatus

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Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Can't resist the snipe, huh?  That so validates you.

The sig?  Naw, just some comedy. 

So, picking on people that like Tali for some laughs isn't trolling? 

Seems legit... :D


Are you being picked on?  Am I actually hurting your feelings over the Internet?  We have that kind of power?  Why was I never told?  Did I not actually contribute an opinion about the OP's question before it got ignored and buried by the apparent butthurt language police?  Yes or no?

And here I was thinking I was just talking about a game...  

Wow.  Live and learn, man.  Live and learn.

#285
Khelish

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JakeMacDon wrote...


I'm not offended at all, I just find it funny you need to put something so antagonistic in your sig. Have fun pal.

#286
DeinonSlayer

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JakeMacDon wrote...

Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Can't resist the snipe, huh?  That so validates you.

The sig?  Naw, just some comedy. 

So, picking on people that like Tali for some laughs isn't trolling? 

Seems legit... :D


Are you being picked on?  Am I actually hurting your feelings over the Internet?  We have that kind of power?  Why was I never told?  Did I not actually contribute an opinion about the OP's question before it got ignored and buried by the apparent butthurt language police?  Yes or no?

And here I was thinking I was just talking about a game...  

Wow.  Live and learn, man.  Live and learn.

You seem to be the only one here getting worked up, and thus far, it's because people are sniping at you for your sniping which you deny is sniping on some weird techicality.

The cycle cannot be broken...

#287
Errationatus

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

To address your point from earlier, even if I were to ignore the issue of trustworthiness entirely (both of the Reaper code, which we have no reason to trust, and of the Geth themselves), the Quarians are a bigger boon to the war effort. If you destroyed the heretics (which I did), they're worth 300 points more in war assets than the Geth. You were ordered specifically to get a fleet to provide logistical aid to the rest of the galaxy's forces. The Quarians are equipped for this. The Geth, on the other hand, are built for combat, but you aren't going to be moving organic troops or refugees in ships which have no air in them.


Thank you so much for addressing this.  I actually appreciate it, believe it or not. Sincerely.

The trust issue, I think - is entirely centred on Legion - and whether you trust him or not, no?  That's a factor one can't really ignore.  True, the quarians do have the ability for massive logistical significance - but only after they can get the bulk of their civilians to Rannoch.  If I'm not mistaken, their ships are still filled with people.  It's no small thing to move millions of people and do it in any appreciable time.  Unless the quarian civilians are ready to go as soon as the war with the geth ends, I would think it would take rather a long time to clear out ships for repurposing.  Unless they already have ships just for this purpose.

How hard would it be for geth to pump atmos into their ships?  From a purely combat POV, a ready-for-war-fleet is not something easily passed up.  As I said, if you can get both, go for it.  As I also said, as Shepard, your goal should be saving as many lives as possible in any way possible.  Both do have the potential to be nothing but trouble post war - after all, combined they'll easily have the biggest fleet of anyone in the Galaxy depending on losses, and by the time they actually get involved, the other races have already taken a serious beating.  What happens if the quarians decide that maybe huge fleet=payback for three centuries of snubs?

After Rannoch, we see Tali arranging the evacuation of a Turian colony on the Citadel and hear a news announcement about the Quarians taking the logistical strain off of the Turians if they survived. In the original script, Garrus' family died on Palaven unless the Quarians were around to evac them.


A pity that wasn't retained.  Heroes pay, too. It can enrich a character if not callously arbitrary.  Personally, my disdain for the quarians as a concept would not prevent me from choosing them over the geth - were I forced to make that decision, given that my goal is to save lives.  However, if I were forced to sacrifice both, I would - all presonal feelings aside, if it meant maximum gain against the Reapers.

My love - or otherwise - for a particular member of either species, especially in this literal end-of-days, should not be the deciding factor in how I choose, no matter how painful it might be.  In Shepard's position he MUST think in abstract and absolute numbers.  War forces those choices on you.

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

#288
Khelish

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JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

And... you couldn't start off like that because...?

#289
Errationatus

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DeinonSlayer wrote...
]You seem to be the only one here getting worked up, and thus far, it's because people are sniping at you for your sniping which you deny is sniping on some weird techicality.

The cycle cannot be broken...


My friend, it is all comedy.  All of it.  Machiavelli actually wrote a satire.  Dante did too.  So did Thomas Paine.  In 1066 they created a massive one and called it holy.  Bioware did it with the Citadel DLC.

If you give too much of a sh!t, it just goes all wrong. Life stops being what it should be and the fairies in the garden become more important than the flowers.

I apologize - sincerely - if anyone took offence, but any offence meant was entirely of your own invention. Maybe you should look at just how serious you're actually taking this nonsense and step back a bit.

Like I said, it's just all comedy.

#290
spirosz

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Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

And... you couldn't start off like that because...?


Cause Jack is da best. 

#291
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Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

And... you couldn't start off like that because...?


See above.

Uh - my post, not Spiroz, although he makes a perfectly valid point.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 15 mars 2013 - 11:22 .


#292
Errationatus

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spirosz wrote...

Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

And... you couldn't start off like that because...?


Cause Jack is da best. 


Yeah, can't argue this.  Nope.  Not possible.  Prettiest gal in the game, best ass, best attitude.

Numbah One, brothers and sisters!

#293
Dude_in_the_Room

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spirosz wrote...

Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

And... you couldn't start off like that because...?


Cause Jack is da best. 


Everytime I look at her I feel like I'm going to get hepatitus.

#294
spirosz

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Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Khelish wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

And... you couldn't start off like that because...?


Cause Jack is da best. 


Everytime I look at her I feel like I'm going to get hepatitus.


Go away, hep-eat-titan-us.

#295
DeinonSlayer

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JakeMacDon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

To address your point from earlier, even if I were to ignore the issue of trustworthiness entirely (both of the Reaper code, which we have no reason to trust, and of the Geth themselves), the Quarians are a bigger boon to the war effort. If you destroyed the heretics (which I did), they're worth 300 points more in war assets than the Geth. You were ordered specifically to get a fleet to provide logistical aid to the rest of the galaxy's forces. The Quarians are equipped for this. The Geth, on the other hand, are built for combat, but you aren't going to be moving organic troops or refugees in ships which have no air in them.


Thank you so much for addressing this.  I actually appreciate it, believe it or not. Sincerely.

The trust issue, I think - is entirely centred on Legion - and whether you trust him or not, no?  That's a factor one can't really ignore.  True, the quarians do have the ability for massive logistical significance - but only after they can get the bulk of their civilians to Rannoch.  If I'm not mistaken, their ships are still filled with people.  It's no small thing to move millions of people and do it in any appreciable time.  Unless the quarian civilians are ready to go as soon as the war with the geth ends, I would think it would take rather a long time to clear out ships for repurposing.  Unless they already have ships just for this purpose.

Both fleets have to repair and re-stock before they can send aid into the wider galaxy. I imagine they were making preparations to disembark before the fighting itself was over. The whole point of going to war, as established in ME2, was to have a place to shelter their civilian populace while the fleet went out to aid the wider galaxy.

JakeMacDon wrote...

How hard would it be for geth to pump atmos into their ships?  From a purely combat POV, a ready-for-war-fleet is not something easily passed up.  As I said, if you can get both, go for it.  As I also said, as Shepard, your goal should be saving as many lives as possible in any way possible.  Both do have the potential to be nothing but trouble post war - after all, combined they'll easily have the biggest fleet of anyone in the Galaxy depending on losses, and by the time they actually get involved, the other races have already taken a serious beating.  What happens if the quarians decide that maybe huge fleet=payback for three centuries of snubs?

Geth ships don't even have life-support systems in them. It would be faster for the Quarians to offload from their own ships than for the Geth to wholly strip down and reconstruct theirs to accomodate organic passengers. Also, the Quarians have to cannibalize much of that fleet to use as building materials for reconstruction - they won't be going on a "crusade of revenge" even if they wanted to for the same reason they could never take a Turian colony to settle by force - they lack the numbers to do so. As the Peace outcome shows, they care more about survival than revenge. Historically, the Geth they were up against had the mindset of the VI, which offers the Quarians no quarter. The Quarians attacked because they thought it the only way they could survive, and if you have the VI with you, they're absolutely right. When it's communicated to them, however, that the Geth are willing to accept a cease-fire for the first time in their entire history, they make the smart move and stand down. The only way the Quarians die is if Shepard encourages the upload and doesn't even bother to tell the Quarians about it - for all they know, another Reaper backup came on-line, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway.

If one side or the other, or both, are intent on some sort of "crusade of revenge" a la Wreav (which there is little reason to suspect - see Quarian aid provided in the wake of the Vallum Blast), wouldn't it be better to preserve the fleet which would be weaker in such combat?

JakeMacDon wrote...

After Rannoch, we see Tali arranging the evacuation of a Turian colony on the Citadel and hear a news announcement about the Quarians taking the logistical strain off of the Turians if they survived. In the original script, Garrus' family died on Palaven unless the Quarians were around to evac them.


A pity that wasn't retained.  Heroes pay, too. It can enrich a character if not callously arbitrary.  Personally, my disdain for the quarians as a concept would not prevent me from choosing them over the geth - were I forced to make that decision, given that my goal is to save lives.  However, if I were forced to sacrifice both, I would - all presonal feelings aside, if it meant maximum gain against the Reapers.

My love - or otherwise - for a particular member of either species, especially in this literal end-of-days, should not be the deciding factor in how I choose, no matter how painful it might be.  In Shepard's position he MUST think in abstract and absolute numbers.  War forces those choices on you.

I think we can agree on this point. I would say the same for my distain for the Geth. I've said many times that those who choose Destroy specifically so Shepard has a shot at survival are doing so for the wrong reasons.

You might be interested in the alternate Rannoch campaign I wrote up. I took Reaper code out of the equation (a major source of distrust) and tried to be balanced to both sides.

JakeMacDon wrote...

Now how was that?  Civilized enough for ya?  ;)

Quite, thank you very much. We would never have seen antagonism in the discussion had you led your argument in this fashion.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 mars 2013 - 11:43 .


#296
N7 Banshee Bait

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

 So, you want to choose the Destroy ending, for whatever reason, but you don't want your Shepard to commit genocide? Well, of course you commit massive genocide on the reapers, but that's not what you Paragons are worried about, are you? It's the idea of commiting genocide on the geth that is unthinkanle. It's just not the Paragon thing to do.

Well, there is a way to get the Destroy ending without genocide. It's very simple really. Next time you're doing Rannoch, support the Quarians. Problem solved. Now you can enjoy your Destroy ending without having to commit genocide! :D


This awesome tip has been brought to you by Heretic_Hanar.

You're welcome. ;)



More worried about EDI. Without EDI you don't reach the end of the game & don't get to choose anything.  Without EDI TIM kicks your ass & it's GAME OVER!

The destroy ending SUCKS!

Modifié par N7 Banshee Bait, 15 mars 2013 - 11:38 .


#297
tonofluck21

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#298
Giantdeathrobot

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HolyAvenger wrote...

I agree. My issue with the endings has to do with the Starbrat and poor narrative justifications, not the consequences of the endings themselves or the tough choices they force on you.

Heck, I would've been fine with Shepard NEEDING to die aka no breath scene.


Pretty much. I don't mind sacrifice and bittersweet endings at all. I hate horribly written and arbitrary ones, and ME3's ending was most definitely badly written and arbitrary.

As for the OP, that's hardly a justification, but then again for some reason I'm not sure he's serious.

And concerning the Geth, I always found that it was incredibly stupid that Destroy affects all synthetics, yet Control doesn't (see my comment about the ending being arbitrary). There's no justification, not even an hand-wave, it's like that and apparently ''there's no time to explain'', but there's time to wait as Shepard sloooowly lumbers towards his choice it seems. So it really sucks, but if the Geth need to die for the Reapers to be taken out of the picture, so be it. I'd have done the same if it was the Asari, Quarians, Salarians or what have you. Even humanity.

#299
The Heretic of Time

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N7 Banshee Bait wrote...

The destroy ending SUCKS!


That's why I chose Control.

#300
Errationatus

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

]Both fleets have to repair and re-stock before they can send aid into the wider galaxy. I imagine they were making preparations to disembark before the fighting itself was over. The whole point of going to war, as established in ME2, was to have a place to shelter their civilian populace while the fleet went out to aid the wider galaxy.


Was it?  I thought that was Gerrel's excuse, not actual quarian policy.  Xen wanted mastery over the geth, Rhaan kinda went where the wind blew - or seemed to - Zal'Koris wanted peaceful cooperation - the general goal of Shepard in the end, we would assume, since you have the option of pushing for that at Tali's trial.  From the sounds of things, only the Heavy Fleet is the main-purpose combat arm of the quarian fleet.  I could be wrong on this, however.

The thing is, the Quarians have to cannibalize much of that fleet to use as building materials for reconstruction.


I think you're forgetting that the geth regard Rannoch as a graveyard, and have preserved a great deal of the planet - including the cities.  Direct quote from the wiki (if you can trust it): "Although Rannoch is now largely uninhabited, the geth have acted as caretakers, working to repair the planet's ecology, restore ancient structures, and cultivate some farmland."

Not much cannibalization needed.

They won't be going on a "crusade of revenge" even if they wanted to for the same reason they could never take a Turian colony to settle by force - they lack the numbers to do so.


Considering the pounding the turians are/would have taken, the quarians might not have to work too terribly hard - were they so inclined.

As the Peace outcome shows, they care more about survival than revenge. Historically, the Geth they were up against had the mindset of the VI, which offers the Quarians no quarter. The Quarians attacked because they thought it the only way they could survive, and if you have the VI with you, they're absolutely right.


Well, Legion says that in his experience - which is the experience of all geth - the quarians have attacked "100% if the time".  They've never tried to negotiate.  The war was never actually necessary, if the quarians had just listened for once.  The hawks had their way, the rest gotta pay.

When it's communicated to them, however, that the Geth are willing to accept a cease-fire for the first time in their entire history, they make the smart move and stand down.


Couldn't the geth letting the quarians leave Rannoch in the first place be considered a kind of ceasefire?  We can assume the Morning War technically never ended.  It's implied that the geth could have easily pursued them, but didn't because they didn't know what genocide would entail. It was not desire, just uncertainty.  For the most part, quarian history since has been nothing but the desire for genocide (if you consider the geth potentially people). The quarians - at least their leadership and public opinion - is not remotely guiltless.  The war, AFAIK, was to the extinction of the geth, not co-habitation.  Shepard, if s/he's lucky - forces it on them but making it possible for the geth to become individually and independantly intelligent.

The only way the Quarians die is if Shepard encourages the upload and doesn't even bother to tell the Quarians about it - for all they know, another Reaper backup came on-line, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway.


Not telling them is a rather dickbag move, no matter how you look at it.

If one side or the other, or both, are intent on some sort of "crusade of revenge" a la Wreav (which there is little reason to suspect - see Quarian aid provided in the wake of the Vallum Blast), wouldn't it be better to preserve the fleet which would be weaker in such combat?


Well, I doubt public opinion would sway that way, but in the flush of victory, with the hawks in charge...?  It's not completely impossible.  Implausible, yes, but not impossible.

I think we can agree on this point. I would say the same for my distain for the Geth. I've said many times that those who choose Destroy specifically so Shepard has a shot at survival are doing so for the wrong reasons.


As I said, Destroy is an actual choice, it takes guts - the others are capitulation - in my opinion, of course.

You might be interested in the alternate Rannoch campaign I wrote up. I took Reaper code out of the equation (a major source of distrust) and tried to be balanced to both sides.


Pass me a link and I'll have a look.

Quite, thank you very much. We would never have seen antagonism in the discussion had you led your argument in this fashion.


I gotta be me.  I also have to regulate my sugar rushes more efficiently, as well, I think.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 16 mars 2013 - 01:18 .