466 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I didn't miss that part. Whether I believed it was another story. <_<

Legion or Geth VI, if one were to take the renegade conversation
options, will admit it has "code of Old Machines" within itself. Shepard will get on Legion or Geth VI about "lying and continuing to lie." Legion or Geth VI will admit this to be true. Or did you miss that part by playing paragon? 

What is the reaper code? It is a data file.

What is it wanting to do? Upload a data file. Again, is a data file alive?

Other than having already played the game, what reason do you have to believe that the reaper code won't bring the Geth armada fully under reaper control?

Our own genetic structure is a data file, does that mean we're not alive then? And, yes, perhaps the Geth lied, is that a quality inherent only to machines? I don't know whether the Reaper Code will work as advertised, I decided to trust Legion on this one, the same way I've trusted every one of my companions throughout the trilogy. How do you know you can trust Tali when the future of her race is at stake? Or Wrex, or any of your companions? Because we've been through a lot together and I believe in them.

[OdanUrr]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

I'm not sure if the ''just a machine'' people are trolling. One could easily say a human is ''just an animal'' and that ''fluids are not alive''. Because that's what we are, at the basic level. Fluids and chemical compounds. Reductive arguments are simply silly.

"Carbon-based life cannot be trusted."

[Giantdeathrobot]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No. You don't know what becomes of them after the rewrite. Let the Quarians deal with them.

Without the reaper signal they became as dumb as varren. In a group they were able to perform complex tasks, but they were not intelligent. Legion wanted to upload the code so they would be able to do these things as individuals. Let the Quarians deal with them.

Sapient.
Sentient.
Learn the difference.

But the thing is I'm not going to send myself into the beam to synthesize and rewrite the entire galaxy to save the geth. Nor am I going to send electrocute myself and die, lose all connection with my own kind, and upload a copy of my brain into a hairbrained scheme of some mad Catalyst to control the reapers and create some new AI based on my brain and hope it works out either. I'm shooting the tube. It's the best option of the three. It's the safest option.

If you played your cards right in ME2 you don't need them anyway, especially if you have a PC because the galactic readiness thing is stupid.

Legion wanted to upload the code because they would get exterminated otherwise. The whole ''this is life!!'' silliness was a desirable side effect, but the main point was to upgrade their processing power so that they could strike back at the Quarians. Why do you think he gets so pissed off at Shepard if the upload is stopped?

And you're utterly contradicting yourself. You say we shouldn't antropomorphize the Geth... yet now you claim that because their style of intelligence is different from ours, they are more expendable and nobody should care that they get genocided. Stay consistent.

For the record, I'm a supporter of Destroy too. But I view the Geth's extermination as the ruthless calculus of war, not a convenient way to genocide a race for unclear reasons, and I don't care that it's got to be the Geth who bite it; if it was the Asari, Salarians, hell humanity or whatever other race, I would have done it. Bioware's arbitrary writing simply decided the Geth had to die in Destroy, but were mysteriously left intact in Control for no reason. I won't let bad writing sway my decisions.

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Legion wanted to upload the code because they would get exterminated otherwise. 

BS.

He wanted the code for reasons still unkown. Or I should say, he wanted it for "individuality", something the Geth don't need. He didn't need that code anymore than the Quarians needed to kill the Geth. Why couldn't Shepard just tell the Quarians to back down and tell Legion to not upload that code?

[Giantdeathrobot]

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Legion wanted to upload the code because they would get exterminated otherwise. 

BS.

He wanted the code for reasons still unkown. Or I should say, he wanted it for "individuality", something the Geth don't need. He didn't need that code anymore than the Quarians needed to kill the Geth. Why couldn't Shepard just tell the Quarians to back down and tell Legion to not upload that code?

How is it BS? If the code doesn't get uploaded, the Geth are exterminated. Period. There's no way around it. The code gives them a fighting chance. Legion takes it. Or should he simply idly stand by and hope Shepard can knock some sense into the Quarians while his race gets annihilated?

As for your last question, ask the writers. I would have been OK with that myself. But that's not an in-game option.

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

How is it BS? - As for your last question, ask the writers. I would have been OK with that myself. But that's not an in-game option.

You just answered why it is BS.

---

Legion's answer as to why they need the code, was made quite clear. Go watch the scene again. It wasn't for any of your listed reasons...

[Giantdeathrobot]

So Legion should have made it clear in bright neon letters that he didn't want his race to be exterminated? I mean, damn, I thought that was pretty obvious and a given. Should he have said ''Shepard-Commander, the total annihilation of my race is an undesirable outcome and I shall attempt to avoid it'' for this fact to be crystal clear? What would you have done in his place, sit there twirling your thumbs hoping Shepard saves the day and rules in your favor? Legion took his specie's future in his own hands. Just like Shepard does in the ending. Just like Wrex does.

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Did you read what I wrote?

I said Shepard could have told them both to stand down. Legion is off rambling about being "alive" and helping with the Crucible, not about defending his people, even though that is something factoring in to his judgement.

Why would the Geth need the code if the Quarians stood down? That code should not be trusted.

---

So you pick destroy in the end, correct?

[Voodoo2015]

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Did you read what I wrote?

I said Shepard could have told them both to stand down. Legion is off rambling about being "alive" and helping with the Crucible, not about defending his people, even though that is something factoring in to his judgement.

Why would the Geth need the code if the Quarians stood down? That code should not be trusted.

---

So you pick destroy in the end, correct?

But through the Code the Geth became individuals with their own mind.

Modifié par Voodoo2015, 16 mars 2013 - 03:40 .

[Khelish]

Voodoo2015 wrote...


But through the Code the Geth became individuals with their own mind.

... And?

Why did they need to be like us? I saw the Geth as a unique type of life before the code. They didn't need individuality.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Did you read what I wrote?

I said Shepard could have told them both to stand down. Legion is off rambling about being "alive" and helping with the Crucible, not about defending his people, even though that is something factoring in to his judgement.

Why would the Geth need the code if the Quarians stood down? That code should not be trusted.

---

So you pick destroy in the end, correct?

So basically, Legion should trust the Quarians (who, mind you, already tried to exterminate the Geth and are attacking them right now) with his specie's life and do nothing. Gotcha. Between trusting the Quarians and trusting the code that didn't make him, personally, go bersek at all, he should trust the Quarians. Ok then.

And yes, I picked Destroy. I have my reasons for it in a post 1-2 pages back. Or is that supposed to be some kind of ad hominem?

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

So basically, Legion should trust the Quarians (who, mind you, already tried to exterminate the Geth and are attacking them right now) with his specie's life and do nothing. Gotcha. Between trusting the Quarians and trusting the code that didn't make him, personally, go bersek at all, he should trust the Quarians. Ok then.

Hehe, that's cute, I love double standards.

Why should the Quarians trust the Geth at all? The same Geth that killed anyone who approached, made no attempt at peace whatsoever, allowed the Heretics to go on their killing spree, killed billions that had nothing to do with how they were treated, etc.

The Geth should look in the mirror. All they have ever done was cause problems.

And yes, I picked Destroy. I have my reasons for it in a post 1-2 pages back. Or is that supposed to be some kind of ad hominem?

Nope. Just wondering how you justify killing millions of individuals in destroy.

At least if the Geth die on Rannoch, they are akin to one person being killed, and they die fighting. In destroy? You stab them in the back.

[Voodoo2015]

Khelish wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...


But through the Code the Geth became individuals with their own mind.

... And?

Why did they need to be like us? I saw the Geth as a unique type of life before the code. They didn't need individuality.

Why not the strive as us to be better. Now the Geth are individuals, and I think that's good now I saw them as alive. And it's easier if there would be another war. Easier to fight against a individual thinking than a collective thinking.

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot, you can reply to me, but I really don't feel like hashing out all this stuff, again, for the hundredth time.

I will read whatever you post, but I won't reply.

[Khelish]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

Why not the strive as us to be better. Now the Geth are individuals, and I think that's good now I saw them as alive. And it's easier if there would be another war. Easier to fight against a individual thinking than a collective thinking.

Are you saying that organics are better than synthetics? That the Geth's hive mind is a hinderence?

[Giantdeathrobot]

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

So basically, Legion should trust the Quarians (who, mind you, already tried to exterminate the Geth and are attacking them right now) with his specie's life and do nothing. Gotcha. Between trusting the Quarians and trusting the code that didn't make him, personally, go bersek at all, he should trust the Quarians. Ok then.

Hehe, that's cute, I love double standards.

Why should the Quarians trust the Geth at all? The same Geth that killed anyone who approached, made no attempt at peace whatsoever, allowed the Heretics to go on their killing spree, killed billions that had nothing to do with how they were treated, etc.

The Geth should look in the mirror. All they have ever done was cause problems.

And yes, I picked Destroy. I have my reasons for it in a post 1-2 pages back. Or is that supposed to be some kind of ad hominem?

Nope. Just wondering how you justify killing millions of individuals in destroy.

At least if the Geth die on Rannoch, they are akin to one person being killed, and they die fighting. In destroy? You stab them in the back.

Why the hell do you bring past actions into that? The point is that Legion was justified in trying to upload the code. I'm not saying the Quarians deserve to die or whatever. The Geth were faced with extinction. Legion acted to prevent it. To claim he should have done otherwise is just being blind. Morality doesn't even come into that. He fought the complete eradication of his species. You seem to have wanted him to just lie down and beg Shepard to spare them or something. F that. The Geth have as much a right to live as anyone else, and as much of a right to defend themselves.

Also, how is killing the Geth on Rannoch not a stab in the back? Legion did a lot to break the stalemate, to destroy the Reaper's influence over his own species. And then, when he wants to give Geth the means to defend themselves (among other things), Shepard stops him. If that is not a stab in the back I don't know what is. They don't even die fighting, Xen's countermeasure renders them helpless. It's more akin to an execution.

[Voodoo2015]

Khelish wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

Why not the strive as us to be better. Now the Geth are individuals, and I think that's good now I saw them as alive. And it's easier if there would be another war. Easier to fight against a individual thinking than a collective thinking.

Are you saying that organics are better than synthetics? That the Geth's hive mind is a hinderence?

Oh no, of course not. They're still synthetics but with an individual thinking.

In ME1 they were the one who was the villain with Saren
In ME2 it was The Collectors and The Reapers.

Then when I played ME3 and I saw how they strive to break away from the Old machines and become their own individuals. Then I became more sympathetic towards them.

Also believe that it is inculcated in me enough just of watching Star Trek synthetics are villains.
But now i have change my mind the don't need to be.

Modifié par Voodoo2015, 16 mars 2013 - 04:25 .

[Iamjdr]

An execution huh? Have you seen what happens when you let the Geth upload the code and u can't make peace? They eliminate the quarians without a second thought. But that doesn't matter right cause the Geth are alive now!!!!yaaaay. It's just To bad the race that created them, who were already Alive got wiped out in the process, it's alright we can rebuild them....oh wait that was the Geth. Oh and btw the Geth don't have children or elderly or any sick to take care of while they fight, they are all soldiers. And the best part is if you rewrite the heretics, the Geth join the reapers but if you destroy the heretics... The Geth join the reapers, sounds like a trustworthy bunch let's upgrade them with reaper code and let them kill our original allies. You know the quarians, the reason Hackett even sent me out there.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Iamjdr wrote...

An execution huh? Have you seen what happens when you let the Geth upload the code and u can't make peace? They eliminate the quarians without a second thought. But that doesn't matter right cause the Geth are alive now!!!!yaaaay. It's just To bad the race that created them, who were already Alive got wiped out in the process, it's alright we can rebuild them....oh wait that was the Geth. Oh and btw the Geth don't have children or elderly or any sick to take care of while they fight, they are all soldiers. And the best part is if you rewrite the heretics, the Geth join the reapers but if you destroy the heretics... The Geth join the reapers, sounds like a trustworthy bunch let's upgrade them with reaper code and let them kill our original allies. You know the quarians, the reason Hackett even sent me out there.

The Quarians are hardly trustworthy allies themselves. Remember Gerrel didn't have a second thought about firing on the Dreadnaught while his ''ally'' and an admiral was on board, and they only came running for Hackett in the first place when their brilliant plan turned out to be a bad idea.

And both endings result in an execution. You're trying to apply morality (badly, by the way) to a situation that has no moral victor. Both species have blood on their hands, and lots of it. There is no moral high ground where genocide is concerned.

[Only-Twin]

The Quarians are hardly trustworthy allies themselves. Remember Gerrel didn't have a second thought about firing on the Dreadnaught while his ''ally'' and an admiral was on board, and they only came running for Hackett in the first place when their brilliant plan turned out to be a bad idea.

It's really a minority of the the quarians. All their mistakes seem to be made by the leaders while the people are left to suffer the consequences.

[o Ventus]

Only-Twin wrote...

The Quarians are hardly trustworthy allies themselves. Remember Gerrel didn't have a second thought about firing on the Dreadnaught while his ''ally'' and an admiral was on board, and they only came running for Hackett in the first place when their brilliant plan turned out to be a bad idea.

It's really a minority of the the quarians. All their mistakes seem to be made by the leaders while the people are left to suffer the consequences.

This.

Quarian leadership is pants-on-head retarded. Joe the quarian has nothing to do with it.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Only-Twin wrote...

The Quarians are hardly trustworthy allies themselves. Remember Gerrel didn't have a second thought about firing on the Dreadnaught while his ''ally'' and an admiral was on board, and they only came running for Hackett in the first place when their brilliant plan turned out to be a bad idea.

It's really a minority of the the quarians. All their mistakes seem to be made by the leaders while the people are left to suffer the consequences.

Well, yes, but that still doesn't make their leadership (or rather, Gerrel) trustworthy. Which is why I think arguing for the genocide of any two species is just silly, when there's an option to make peace. Shepard, in-game, is another thing entirely, but for someone in RL to advocate such things because ''oh, but their leadership sucks!!'' or ''oh, but they're just machines!!'' is just... stupid.

[Only-Twin]

Yeah, Gerrel is a hot-head.

I think Bioware was trying to use the admiralty board as a real-world theme.

[Iamjdr]

Really ? Im sorry but when have the quarians ever even thought to join the reapers? the enemy of the entire galaxy which the Geth have now allied themselves with twice even after I killed the heretics who were supposidly only a small sect of the Geth according to legion. But then he lies to me later out the reaper code and the Geth are once again trying to ally themselves with the reapers an you have to stop an think for a second. Tho Gerrel may be an a** when have the quarians lied to me?most of the time they seem almost brutally honest. and I mean really him almost killing me is supposed to make me forget the hundreds of Geth that have tried to kill me and my squad throughout all 3 mass effect games.

[Voodoo2015]

Iamjdr wrote...

An execution huh? Have you seen what happens when you let the Geth upload the code and u can't make peace? They eliminate the quarians without a second thought. But that doesn't matter right cause the Geth are alive now!!!!yaaaay. It's just To bad the race that created them, who were already Alive got wiped out in the process, it's alright we can rebuild them....oh wait that was the Geth. Oh and btw the Geth don't have children or elderly or any sick to take care of while they fight, they are all soldiers. And the best part is if you rewrite the heretics, the Geth join the reapers but if you destroy the heretics... The Geth join the reapers, sounds like a trustworthy bunch let's upgrade them with reaper code and let them kill our original allies. You know the quarians, the reason Hackett even sent me out there.

No, because I always manage to make peace. The first time I killed them because I made a mistake.
And they joined the Reapers because they didnt want to be wiped out by the Quarians.