466 réponses à ce sujet

[Only-Twin]

The quarians are definitely made out to be victims of bad leadership. They wouldn't be in the mess they are now if it wasn't because of poor judgement on behalf of their government.

It's also pretty apparent by the third game that a lot of quarians oppose fighting.
Tali would rather have peace, Koris constantly clashes with Gerrel over the war, Dorn'Hazt tells Shepard that their people don't want a war, hell even Kal'Reegar states that he only follows his orders as a marine.

[DeinonSlayer]

I could go into why the attack on the dreadnought was the right move (and why Shepard can say as much), but I'm tired of repeating it when I know it will fall on deaf ears...

All the same, it scares the crap out of me to think that, when we make first contact with aliens in real life, our species will be represented to them by our politicians.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Iamjdr wrote...

Really ? Im sorry but when have the quarians ever even thought to join the reapers? the enemy of the entire galaxy which the Geth have now allied themselves with twice even after I killed the heretics who were supposidly only a small sect of the Geth according to legion. But then he lies to me later out the reaper code and the Geth are once again trying to ally themselves with the reapers an you have to stop an think for a second. Tho Gerrel may be an a** when have the quarians lied to me?most of the time they seem almost brutally honest. and I mean really him almost killing me is supposed to make me forget the hundreds of Geth that have tried to kill me and my squad throughout all 3 mass effect games.

A fraction of the Geth joined the Reapers once. Not exactly grounds for genocide unless you think we should exterminate humanity because of Cerberus, or the Rachni because of past Reaper influence. Or the Turians because of Saren.

Then the species joined when it was the only thing between them and exctinction. Not a great move by any means, but they were desperate. Just like the Quarians were desperate when they attacked Rannoch in the middle of a Reaper invasion without even trying to petition the Council/Hackett.

So sorry, I really, really don't see how that justifies genocide.

[Iamjdr]

If they didn't want to fight the quarians why didn't they just leave rannoch? What need do the Geth have for that planet? They could live anywhere in the galaxy in "peace" where noone would ever bother them and they could make there dyson sphere and never be alone like they told me they wanted to in me2. But no they decided to stay on rannoch the world they ejected the quarians from and they just sat around expecting them to never come back?

[Only-Twin]

All the same, it scares the crap out of me to think that, when we make first contact with aliens in real life, our species will be represented to them by our politicians.

There could be advanced life out there right now, nervous to contact us because of that very reason. Haha.

It's likely that Bioware wanted the admiralty board to be an allusion to real world politics.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Iamjdr wrote...

If they didn't want to fight the quarians why didn't they just leave rannoch? What need do the Geth have for that planet? They could live anywhere in the galaxy in "peace" where noone would ever bother them and they could make there dyson sphere and never be alone like they told me they wanted to in me2. But no they decided to stay on rannoch the world they ejected the quarians from and they just sat around expecting them to never come back?

it's also their own homeworld, and they ARE trying to leave it via the Dyson sphere, sorta. But that's another debate entirely.

[Iamjdr]

Trying for 300 years... Must be some ****ty labor units at that pace. and it's there home as much as my parents house would be mine if I murdered everyone in the house who didn't leave and anyone who tried to come in afterward.

[Barquiel]

Khelish wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...


But through the Code the Geth became individuals with their own mind.

... And?

Why did they need to be like us? I saw the Geth as a unique type of life before the code. They didn't need individuality.

I think it's their decision if they want to become individuals or not.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Iamjdr wrote...

Trying for 300 years... Must be some ****ty labor units at that pace. and it's there home as much as my parents house would be mine if I murdered everyone in the house who didn't leave and anyone who tried to come in afterward.

Well if your parents tried to murder you first and then failed... It's not even a question of rights anyway.

[Khelish]

Barquiel wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...


But through the Code the Geth became individuals with their own mind.

... And?

Why did they need to be like us? I saw the Geth as a unique type of life before the code. They didn't need individuality.

I think it's their decision if they want to become individuals or not.

And if that decision and its outcome requires the use of Reaper tech, I will not be inclined to agree so easily.

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Well if your parents tried to murder you first and then failed...

... Then you kill your parents, then your brother, then your sister, and anyone else that had nothing to do with the starting argument.

[Iamjdr]

Then you kill Your neighbors their neighbors, the block, the town,the city, the state..... My house

[Giantdeathrobot]

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Well if your parents tried to murder you first and then failed...

... Then you kill your parents, then your brother, then your sister, and anyone else that had nothing to do with the starting argument.

*sigh* must we go throught this yet again? Both species have blood on their hands. Neither species deserve genocide for it. I wish people stopped acting like their side's **** didn't stink. At the risk of repeating myself, there is no moral high ground in genocide.

[ghost9191]

could always just use the power of headcannon and make it so it doesn't destroy them


that or just get a cookie and shoot the tube



"grow up kid, sometimes it is kill or be killed"

that and well the geth do ( if anyone did ) deserve it more . well unless you ignore history. and "only fools ignore history":whistle:

Modifié par ghost9191, 16 mars 2013 - 06:07 .

[shodiswe]

Letting the Quarrians comitt genocide might be slightly better than doing it yourself. However since Legion is alive on all my ME2 playthroughs... I would have to shoot Legion, betray him knowing I could save them and make peace.

It's not exactly an improvement. So I prefer Space AI Shepard of the Citadel, (paragon) who doesn't dream of leading the many who doesn't nessesarily see itself as the perfect leader but who will support them and protect them when needed. Much like Shepard did before becoming an AI and got rid of the Catalyst and it's crazy ideas. After all the Catalyst tells you it doesn't lookforward to being replaced by Shepard. He tells you this!
So what happens is that you invade his server and kills him! You kill the war criminal and bring peace! So, in that sense I find Control satisfying.
(He only tells you he doesn't like it if you tell him you don't like that option) As in, "I don't like it either!"

[Khelish]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Well if your parents tried to murder you first and then failed...

... Then you kill your parents, then your brother, then your sister, and anyone else that had nothing to do with the starting argument.

*sigh* must we go throught this yet again? Both species have blood on their hands. Neither species deserve genocide for it. I wish people stopped acting like their side's **** didn't stink. At the risk of repeating myself, there is no moral high ground in genocide.

When did I say the Quarians were blameless?

All I have ever wanted, was for pro-Geth people to acknowledge that the Geth acted in the wrong manner, on many situations.

[ghost9191]

^^ LoL avoid betraying legion to turn around a betray half the galaxy... loves it

just saying

[Iamjdr]

Who ever said they "deserve" genocide? Noone ever said that all I said was if I have to make a choice like I did my first playthru I will always choose the quarians. What's the point of the Geth becoming alive if the quarians become dead in the process?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The ending is atrocious. If you can't stand it, wither don't play it or use the MEHEM or something. However, if saves are gonna to be exported to ME4, there's probably nothing that can be done.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Well if your parents tried to murder you first and then failed...

... Then you kill your parents, then your brother, then your sister, and anyone else that had nothing to do with the starting argument.

*sigh* must we go throught this yet again? Both species have blood on their hands. Neither species deserve genocide for it. I wish people stopped acting like their side's **** didn't stink. At the risk of repeating myself, there is no moral high ground in genocide.

When did I say the Quarians were blameless?

All I have ever wanted, was for pro-Geth people to acknowledge that the Geth acted in the wrong manner, on many situations.

I'm not even pro-Geth, I'm pro-peace. The Geth did do horrible stuff, there's no denying that. So did the Quarians. Dwelling on it is useless and doesn't help anyone, you don't wash blood with more blood.

[shodiswe]

Iamjdr wrote...

Who ever said they "deserve" genocide? Noone ever said that all I said was if I have to make a choice like I did my first playthru I will always choose the quarians. What's the point of the Geth becoming alive if the quarians become dead in the process?

I've never had to choose,  can always make a peace between them, unless  I sabotage it during ME3 and would "prefer" one to die.

Also to the person claiming control is a betrayal to the galaxy, I can't see that, the reapers are stopped, there is no more harvest. People are happy that the war is over.

What normaly ends a war in real life? the wholesale annihilation of a people? is that the only way to end a war? There can be no peace without the 100% destruction of one of the warfaring parties? That's a very extreme definition. though as far as the Reapers goes they are all shooting at us and tryign to kill us therfor im fine with them dying, they choose this and if they wanted people they could have chagned their mind at any point, even before forcing Shepard to choose. They don't.
My only concern however is saving people and ending the war, the reapers have no reason to keep killing and harvesting beyond the fact that it was the Catalysts belief that it was the right choice. The right solution.
I'm sure it's satisfying to "kill" the enemy that has been killing so many people but that''s not all this is about, this is about saving people.

So yes, im sure renegade people think that there is only one way to end a conflict, having a few billion get dying and million on the citadel would mean little to some people, it's not a breayal to them, it's just far more satisfying to their bloodlust. The Catalyst is the Reapers "Hitler" and once it's gone the war is over. The madness ends with the destruction of the evil one, the starbrat, the catalyst and all other thign people calls it. It dies. the war is over.

[AlanC9]

shodiswe wrote...

I've never had to choose,  can always make a peace between them, unless  I sabotage it during ME3 and would "prefer" one to die.

The hard part is blowing Tali's LM in ME2 Those checks aren't too easy to pass unless you're playing a fairly pure Paragon or Renegade game.

[Iamjdr]

I think having to choose put thing in perspective for me. As I have tried it both ways. If you let legion do the upload tali watches her people die in shock and commits suicide but if you don't let legion upload the code he immediately tries to kill you then tali saves you and is sad for having to stop legion and then the Geth die.

[ghost9191]

or , and this is jsut a idea. you could always save the geth and let them kill off the qurians . and then pick destroy and wipe out the geth .

problem solved

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Iamjdr wrote...

Really ? Im sorry but when have the quarians ever even thought to join the reapers? the enemy of the entire galaxy which the Geth have now allied themselves with twice even after I killed the heretics who were supposidly only a small sect of the Geth according to legion. But then he lies to me later out the reaper code and the Geth are once again trying to ally themselves with the reapers an you have to stop an think for a second. Tho Gerrel may be an a** when have the quarians lied to me?most of the time they seem almost brutally honest. and I mean really him almost killing me is supposed to make me forget the hundreds of Geth that have tried to kill me and my squad throughout all 3 mass effect games.

A fraction of the Geth joined the Reapers once. Not exactly grounds for genocide unless you think we should exterminate humanity because of Cerberus, or the Rachni because of past Reaper influence. Or the Turians because of Saren.

Then the species joined when it was the only thing between them and exctinction. Not a great move by any means, but they were desperate. Just like the Quarians were desperate when they attacked Rannoch in the middle of a Reaper invasion without even trying to petition the Council/Hackett.

So sorry, I really, really don't see how that justifies genocide.

I don't think the Quarians petitioning Hackett or the Council would have helped. What has the council ever done for the Quarians? Nothing. They consider the Quarians a rogue state. They have for 300 years. Screw the council. When have they helped you? Never! "Ah yes, reapers!" Then sat with their fingers up their asses for three years.

The size of the geth armada changes by 35% if you destroy the Heretics. And while that is a fraction that is a small fraction. Legion also had that same heretic runtime operating in its own platform in ME2. Legion mentions that if you take certain conversation options that most people don't take.

The quarians were desperate for a place to put their civilians so they wouldn't be on the front lines during the reaper war. The council had kicked them off every world they tried to colonize. They had tried colonizing even worlds unsuitable for them, just to get off their deteriorating fleet, such as a heavy gravity planet. The council found out and gave that world to the elcor. The council was at fault for the situation. They had backed the Quarians into a corner, basically setting the two sides up for conflict. If the reaper hadn't landed on Rannoch, the Geth would have lost the war. It would have been over.

You may call this genocide on the geth on Rannoch. The quarians call it payback. The geth wiped out over 99% of the Quarian population. They killed billions and are responsible for reducing the population to 17 million from the 6.6 billion it was before the Morning War. SOME, of the Quarians died as a result of being geth sympathizers, but as soon as the geth turned on them, I seriously doubt they remained geth sympathizers. The geth killed children, babies, and quarians of all ages. Nice cuddly warm Geth. They had reached consensus to eliminate every single Quarian on the planet. When the Quarians left the planet, due to the way their consensus functioned, they had to reach another consensus, by then the 20 million or so remaining Quarians were long gone, and the Geth did not reach consensus to pursue them.

Now with Geth VI you see this same Geth. You don't see the cuddly warm fuzzy Geth. Do not trust these synthetics.

This is payback. Gerrel is not an ass. He's a fine admiral. He followed the plan we made which was to take out the dreadnought when the shields came down. Xen is a genius. Rael unfortunately put progress ahead of safety.