466 réponses à ce sujet

[ZombifiedJake]

Apart from the terrible writing of the ending, what annoyed me about the destroy option was the tacked on "wipe out AI" consequence. I went for destroy because I played through everything to wipe out the reapers, and that's what I did with the final choice. Plus, control is stupid and what that brat wanted, and synthesis is even more stupid to the point it hurt the writers' credibility.

I didn't choose the ending because Shepard survived; that was a slight bonus. I probably would have swapped his survival out to negate the AI consequence. But whatever, didn't people get EDI coming out of the Normandy at the end regardless of the destroy option? They had no idea where they were going with this ending.

[Giantdeathrobot]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Iamjdr wrote...

Really ? Im sorry but when have the quarians ever even thought to join the reapers? the enemy of the entire galaxy which the Geth have now allied themselves with twice even after I killed the heretics who were supposidly only a small sect of the Geth according to legion. But then he lies to me later out the reaper code and the Geth are once again trying to ally themselves with the reapers an you have to stop an think for a second. Tho Gerrel may be an a** when have the quarians lied to me?most of the time they seem almost brutally honest. and I mean really him almost killing me is supposed to make me forget the hundreds of Geth that have tried to kill me and my squad throughout all 3 mass effect games.

A fraction of the Geth joined the Reapers once. Not exactly grounds for genocide unless you think we should exterminate humanity because of Cerberus, or the Rachni because of past Reaper influence. Or the Turians because of Saren.

Then the species joined when it was the only thing between them and exctinction. Not a great move by any means, but they were desperate. Just like the Quarians were desperate when they attacked Rannoch in the middle of a Reaper invasion without even trying to petition the Council/Hackett.

So sorry, I really, really don't see how that justifies genocide.

I don't think the Quarians petitioning Hackett or the Council would have helped. What has the council ever done for the Quarians? Nothing. They consider the Quarians a rogue state. They have for 300 years. Screw the council. When have they helped you? Never! "Ah yes, reapers!" Then sat with their fingers up their asses for three years.

The size of the geth armada changes by 35% if you destroy the Heretics. And while that is a fraction that is a small fraction. Legion also had that same heretic runtime operating in its own platform in ME2. Legion mentions that if you take certain conversation options that most people don't take.

The quarians were desperate for a place to put their civilians so they wouldn't be on the front lines during the reaper war. The council had kicked them off every world they tried to colonize. They had tried colonizing even worlds unsuitable for them, just to get off their deteriorating fleet, such as a heavy gravity planet. The council found out and gave that world to the elcor. The council was at fault for the situation. They had backed the Quarians into a corner, basically setting the two sides up for conflict. If the reaper hadn't landed on Rannoch, the Geth would have lost the war. It would have been over.

You may call this genocide on the geth on Rannoch. The quarians call it payback. The geth wiped out over 99% of the Quarian population. They killed billions and are responsible for reducing the population to 17 million from the 6.6 billion it was before the Morning War. SOME, of the Quarians died as a result of being geth sympathizers, but as soon as the geth turned on them, I seriously doubt they remained geth sympathizers. The geth killed children, babies, and quarians of all ages. Nice cuddly warm Geth. They had reached consensus to eliminate every single Quarian on the planet. When the Quarians left the planet, due to the way their consensus functioned, they had to reach another consensus, by then the 20 million or so remaining Quarians were long gone, and the Geth did not reach consensus to pursue them.

Now with Geth VI you see this same Geth. You don't see the cuddly warm fuzzy Geth. Do not trust these synthetics.

This is payback. Gerrel is not an ass. He's a fine admiral. He followed the plan we made which was to take out the dreadnought when the shields came down. Xen is a genius. Rael unfortunately put progress ahead of safety.

So you're taking the moral high ground in the case of a genocide. At least you made it clear. I'm not even going to adress ''to the Quarians, it's payback'' line, because you can then justify any sort of atrocity and this is veering dangerously close to real-world politics that must not be mentioned.

[Draining Dragon]

Machines can be rebuilt. People can't.

[Ticonderoga117]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Machines can be rebuilt. People can't.

Shepard says "Hello".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ZombifiedJake wrote...

Apart from the terrible writing of the ending, what annoyed me about the destroy option was the tacked on "wipe out AI" consequence. I went for destroy because I played through everything to wipe out the reapers, and that's what I did with the final choice. Plus, control is stupid and what that brat wanted, and synthesis is even more stupid to the point it hurt the writers' credibility.

I didn't choose the ending because Shepard survived; that was a slight bonus. I probably would have swapped his survival out to negate the AI consequence. But whatever, didn't people get EDI coming out of the Normandy at the end regardless of the destroy option? They had no idea where they were going with this ending.

The writer (he who shall not be named) forgot Shepard had two way communication. Remember the scene immediately before at the panel when Hackett contacted Shepard? Oh that. The writer derped.

Shepard, at least MY Shepard had a brain, and she would have contacted the Normandy and had them power down EDI before shooting the tube. That would have saved EDI. The wave wouldn't have recognized EDI as an AI. It would have just seen parts. It is obvious that the Normandy has a backup navigation computer. How do I know this? Clone Shepard powered off EDI in the Citadel DLC. When they turned her back on she was fine. Amazing. At worst, the component that would have been lost is the sexbot. She would have reverted to the blue globe post wave.

[o Ventus]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

Machines can be rebuilt. People can't.

Shepard says "Hello".

Lazarus cost a substantial amount of money, took 2 years of hard work, and is seen as nothing short of a miracle.

Don't compare Lazarus to rebuilding a robot.

[Giantdeathrobot]

o Ventus wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

Machines can be rebuilt. People can't.

Shepard says "Hello".

Lazarus cost a substantial amount of money, took 2 years of hard work, and is seen as nothing short of a miracle.

Don't compare Lazarus to rebuilding a robot.

And where is it explicitely stated that anybody can (or will) rebuild the Geth as they originally were? I mean, with the memories, consensus, personalities like Legion, and such. Else you're only rebuilding a shell, a shallow clone.

[Ticonderoga117]

o Ventus wrote...

Lazarus cost a substantial amount of money, took 2 years of hard work, and is seen as nothing short of a miracle.

Don't compare Lazarus to rebuilding a robot.

I never said it was, but in the ME'verse, it is possible.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 16 mars 2013 - 08:10 .

[M Hedonist]

The Council has banned AI development. I doubt they would change that after the galaxy was almost destroyed by a race of sentient star ships.

[MegaSovereign]

Sauruz wrote...

The Council has banned AI development. I doubt they would change that after the galaxy was almost destroyed by a race of sentient star ships.

Is the Council going to wipe out humanity because of Cerberus?

EDI is the only reason Shepard didn't die on Cronos. And the war would have turned out ugly.

[DeinonSlayer]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Council has banned AI development. I doubt they would change that after the galaxy was almost destroyed by a race of sentient star ships.

Is the Council going to wipe out humanity because of Cerberus?

EDI is the only reason Shepard didn't die on Cronos. And the war would have turned out ugly.

As much as I dislike the Geth, I agree that the Council's AI ban needs to be overturned. It's unjust.

But, then, the Council is known for doing dumb crap like that. Just look at the Genophage.

[Bill Casey]

It's going to be Admiral Xen rebuilding the Geth for her own benefit, and it's going to start out very badly...
Hell, she even does that in cut content...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 mars 2013 - 08:29 .

[Deathsaurer]

Sauruz wrote...

The Council has banned AI development. I doubt they would change that after the galaxy was almost destroyed by a race of sentient star ships.

They let the Alliance dump unshackled AIs into the N7 spec ops team.

[ruggly]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

As much as I dislike the Geth, I agree that the Council's AI ban needs to be overturned. It's unjust.

But, then, the Council is known for doing dumb crap like that. Just look at the Genophage.

The ME3 Geth are a little iffy with me, but I absolutely agree with getting rid of the AI ban.  The so called "chaos" would be a lot less likely to happen, since it gives people a reason to treat the synthetics as equals.

[o Ventus]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

And where is it explicitely stated that anybody can (or will) rebuild the Geth as they originally were? I mean, with the memories, consensus, personalities like Legion, and such. Else you're only rebuilding a shell, a shallow clone.

Where did I mention the geth?

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

don't worry-organics will create new synthetics

[CronoDragoon]

Khelish wrote...
]Are you saying that organics are better than synthetics? That the Geth's hive mind is a hinderence?

Those are two entirely different questions. To your first question: no. To your second question: yes.

The events of ME2 and ME3 demonstrate the danger inherent in a hive mind. You can increase intelligence by networking more VI programs, but on the other hand the less VI programs the less intelligent the race. War can lead to extremely stupid decisions as more and more VI programs are lost; stupid decisions such as siding with the Reapers.

In the end, the existence of an alternate form of life is not an argument for stagnant development. Legion clearly changed his mind by the time Rannoch rolls around about the value of the hive-mind, and thought that the Reaper code represented a clear positive evolution for his species. Denying that point of view, as you want to, is analogous to denying the galaxy the right to rebuild the relays because "it wouldn't be true freedom." In actual fact such a claim is a blockade to true autonomy, because you are telling the geth that they can only develop along the lines that YOU think are right.

If you want the geth to be autonomous beings, then you have to deal with the possibility of them making decisions that evolve away from the hive mind.

[Xilizhra]

I wonder if the Council will get rid of the AI ban in Control? After all, there's no more need to really worry about a robot uprising anymore when the very thing preventing that for millions of years is now on the Council's side...

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Shepard, at least MY Shepard had a brain, and she would have contacted the Normandy and had them power down EDI before shooting the tube. That would have saved EDI. The wave wouldn't have recognized EDI as an AI. It would have just seen parts. It is obvious that the Normandy has a backup navigation computer. How do I know this? Clone Shepard powered off EDI in the Citadel DLC. When they turned her back on she was fine. Amazing. At worst, the component that would have been lost is the sexbot. She would have reverted to the blue globe post wave. 

The only problem with that theory is that turning an AI off completely would kill it; you get a new being when you power it up agian. The Codex is quite clear about that.

[Deathsaurer]

The "ban" was rendered laughable when they let the Alliance make unshackled AIs, give them a gun, and send them to kill Reaper forces. Granted Council race and desperate times but unshackled AIs...

[DeinonSlayer]

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Shepard, at least MY Shepard had a brain, and she would have contacted the Normandy and had them power down EDI before shooting the tube. That would have saved EDI. The wave wouldn't have recognized EDI as an AI. It would have just seen parts. It is obvious that the Normandy has a backup navigation computer. How do I know this? Clone Shepard powered off EDI in the Citadel DLC. When they turned her back on she was fine. Amazing. At worst, the component that would have been lost is the sexbot. She would have reverted to the blue globe post wave. 

The only problem with that theory is that turning an AI off completely would kill it; you get a new being when you power it up agian. The Codex is quite clear about that.

So did EDI become a different person after this incident?

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

I wonder if the Council will get rid of the AI ban in Control? After all, there's no more need to really worry about a robot uprising anymore when the very thing preventing that for millions of years is now on the Council's side...

. I can't think of anyone worse to get control of the Reapers.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I wonder if the Council will get rid of the AI ban in Control? After all, there's no more need to really worry about a robot uprising anymore when the very thing preventing that for millions of years is now on the Council's side...

. I can't think of anyone worse to get control of the Reapers.

Yes, but you're a Cerberus supporter; our views on how to manage the galaxy will inevitably clash. Though I'm surprised you apparently consider me worse than the original Catalyst.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I wonder if the Council will get rid of the AI ban in Control? After all, there's no more need to really worry about a robot uprising anymore when the very thing preventing that for millions of years is now on the Council's side...

. I can't think of anyone worse to get control of the Reapers.

Yes, but you're a Cerberus supporter; our views on how to manage the galaxy will inevitably clash. Though I'm surprised you apparently consider me worse than the original Catalyst.

. I don't recall saying worse.  Maybe as bad as the original Catalyst.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I wonder if the Council will get rid of the AI ban in Control? After all, there's no more need to really worry about a robot uprising anymore when the very thing preventing that for millions of years is now on the Council's side...

. I can't think of anyone worse to get control of the Reapers.

Yes, but you're a Cerberus supporter; our views on how to manage the galaxy will inevitably clash. Though I'm surprised you apparently consider me worse than the original Catalyst.

. I don't recall saying worse.  Maybe as bad as the original Catalyst.

And how am I so terrifying?