466 réponses à ce sujet

[KoorahUK]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

People, if you side with the quarians on Rannich, YOU don't commit genocide, the quarians do, and only because the geth don't surrender.

So just side with the quarians on Rannoch, and your Paragon hands will be clean. Now you can happily choose Destroy without genocide.

Yes you are right, this discussion has gotten far too interesting. Lets just bring it back to the original troll and wrap it up, eh folks?

[Apocaleepse360]

I've seen some pretty damn stupid threads from you in my time, but I think this tops them all.

[Steelcan]

The quarians destroying the geth isn't genocide. It's a legitimate military necessity.

[Khelish]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

People, if you side with the quarians on Rannich, YOU don't commit genocide, the quarians do, and only because the geth don't surrender.

So just side with the quarians on Rannoch, and your Paragon hands will be clean. Now you can happily choose Destroy without genocide.

While I choose the Quarians over the Geth, you need to realize that you are still responsible for the death of the Geth on Rannoch.

It is by your lack of action that they died. Own up and take responsibility for it.

Geth VI deserves it FYI. Legion on the other hand, doesn't.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I don't see Destroy as OMIGAHDGENOCIDE -nonsense but this thread solves nothing.

[The Heretic of Time]

You're right Steelcan. Not to mention the fact that at Rannoch, before the reaper code upgrade is uploaded, the geth can barely be considered to be alive. Only AFTER the reaper code upgrade do they become alive.

You cannot commit genocide on something that isn't even truly alive.

[eye basher]

The geth tried to kill me far to many times gave them far to many chances and they ended up back stabbing me sorry but they have to die like they say fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

[Fredvdp]

Steelcan wrote...

The quarians destroying the geth isn't genocide. It's a legitimate military necessity.

Since the other option is peace between quarians and geth, I strongly disagree that destroying them all is a necessity.

[Khelish]

Fredvdp wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The quarians destroying the geth isn't genocide. It's a legitimate military necessity.

Since the other option is peace between quarians and geth, I strongly disagree that destroying them all is a necessity.

When Geth VI is present, peace is impossible.

Geth VI wants you to let the Quarian people die.

[CronoDragoon]

Fredvdp wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The quarians destroying the geth isn't genocide. It's a legitimate military necessity.

Since the other option is peace between quarians and geth, I strongly disagree that destroying them all is a necessity.

That's an analysis only possible retrospectively. Militaries normally don't make decisions based on the likelihood of shouting solving wars.

[78stonewobble]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You're right Steelcan. Not to mention the fact that at Rannoch, before the reaper code upgrade is uploaded, the geth can barely be considered to be alive. Only AFTER the reaper code upgrade do they become alive.

You cannot commit genocide on something that isn't even truly alive.

Offcourse they can be considered to be both alive and intelligent as a whole before.

The alternative being that you are not alive because you are dependent on eg. plants to make oxygen, other people to create offspring with and bacteria in your intestines to properly breakdown nutrients.

[78stonewobble]

CronoDragoon wrote...
That's an analysis only possible retrospectively. Militaries normally don't make decisions based on the likelihood of shouting solving wars.

From Shepards perspective though it is desirable to preserve as much fighting force as possible and imho that includes both parties.

[The Heretic of Time]

Fredvdp wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The quarians destroying the geth isn't genocide. It's a legitimate military necessity.

Since the other option is peace between quarians and geth, I strongly disagree that destroying them all is a necessity.

wha if you don't get the peace option? I didn't get it on my first playtrough. I sided with the quarians. Didn't regret a thing.

[Khelish]

78stonewobble wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
That's an analysis only possible retrospectively. Militaries normally don't make decisions based on the likelihood of shouting solving wars.

From Shepards perspective though 

To be fair, that is your Shepard's perspective. 

[CronoDragoon]

78stonewobble wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
That's an analysis only possible retrospectively. Militaries normally don't make decisions based on the likelihood of shouting solving wars.

From Shepards perspective though it is desirable to preserve as much fighting force as possible and imho that includes both parties.

No doubt. I am just saying that choosing to destroy the geth in that moment still constitutes military necessity, because you really don't have much reason to believe that Shepard ordering everyone to stand down will work.

[DeinonSlayer]

Khelish wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

People, if you side with the quarians on Rannich, YOU don't commit genocide, the quarians do, and only because the geth don't surrender.

So just side with the quarians on Rannoch, and your Paragon hands will be clean. Now you can happily choose Destroy without genocide.

While I choose the Quarians over the Geth, you need to realize that you are still responsible for the death of the Geth on Rannoch.

It is by your lack of action that they died. Own up and take responsibility for it.

Geth VI deserves it FYI. Legion on the other hand, doesn't.

This. If one side or the other dies, Shepard is responsible for it. Either by provoking an attack from the platform uploading the code, or by choosing not to inform the Quarians that A) the upload is taking place, and if Legion is present, the Geth are willing to honor a ceasefire for the first time in their entire history (two things the Quarians have no other way of knowing).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 mars 2013 - 03:35 .

[KoorahUK]

My last playthrough was with a Shep where Tali died in ME2. When I let Legion upload the modified code it didn't end well for the Quarians. I was... surprised to say the least.

[Apocaleepse360]

CronoDragoon wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
That's an analysis only possible retrospectively. Militaries normally don't make decisions based on the likelihood of shouting solving wars.

From Shepards perspective though it is desirable to preserve as much fighting force as possible and imho that includes both parties.

No doubt. I am just saying that choosing to destroy the geth in that moment still constitutes military necessity, because you really don't have much reason to believe that Shepard ordering everyone to stand down will work.

But it will. Because it's a game.

[CronoDragoon]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...
But it will. Because it's a game.

That's an analysis from the player's perspective obviously, not Shepard and the quarians' perspective. The player knows it'll work as soon as he sees the blue option.

Still military necessity when discussing the choice within the confines of the story.

[Dieb]

The abuse of the word genocide is increasingly sickening to me. Please at least do your research properly before trying to bludgeon any discussion with a guilt-loaded, yet misplaced term.

But then again, so is calling others on decisions in their personal story, or the attempt of dividing the community with labels like "Destroyers" or "Controllers". I naively wish this board to be more about insightful lore discussion, not a re-enactment of Gangs Of New York.


P.S.: I'm aware of the futility and being rather late to the party. But it's been better already.

[estebanus]

Well, the geth are valuable resources, so I didn't kill them. However, I also think that as any other combat mech, they're expendable. So let them believe that they actually matter. They can enjoy it while it lasts.

[ruggly]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You're right Steelcan. Not to mention the fact that at Rannoch, before the reaper code upgrade is uploaded, the geth can barely be considered to be alive. Only AFTER the reaper code upgrade do they become alive.

You cannot commit genocide on something that isn't even truly alive.

That depends on each player though.  Though I find it somewhat insulting that the Geth wanted the reaper code to become individuals, more like organics, when Legion specifically says in ME2 that the Geth do not value individuality.  I saw them as alive, only in a different manner.

[CronoDragoon]

ruggly wrote...
when Legion specifically says in ME2 that the Geth do not value individuality.  I saw them as alive, only in a different manner.

Perhaps he changed his mind when the geth's race intelligence was so lowered by the quarian war that they sided with the Reapers. It obviously saw the need for a change.

[Strangewrex]

Destroying the Geth with the Red Crucible beam is no more Genocide than Formatting your Hard Disc Drive. After all, the Geth ARE Programs loaded onto Mobile platforms.

[ruggly]

CronoDragoon wrote...

ruggly wrote...
when Legion specifically says in ME2 that the Geth do not value individuality.  I saw them as alive, only in a different manner.

Perhaps he changed his mind when the geth's race intelligence was so lowered by the quarian war that they sided with the Reapers. It obviously saw the need for a change.

That's most likely.  But the line "We would be alive" still annoys me.