466 réponses à ce sujet

[Apocaleepse360]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...
But it will. Because it's a game.

That's an analysis from the player's perspective obviously, not Shepard and the quarians' perspective. The player knows it'll work as soon as he sees the blue option.

Still military necessity when discussing the choice within the confines of the story.

But it's still a game. It doesn't matter about miliary necessities when the universe is completely fictional. The more realism we add to games, the less fun it becomes.

[AlanC9]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

The more realism we add to games, the less fun it becomes.

I presume what you mean there is that there's some optimal level of realism for maximum fun, not that more realism always equals less fun.

If that's the case, maybe different players have different optimal levels of realism?

[Strangewrex]

AlanC9 wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

The more realism we add to games, the less fun it becomes.

I presume what you mean there is that there's some optimal level of realism for maximum fun, not that more realism always equals less fun.

If that's the case, maybe different players have different optimal levels of realism?

This is off-Topic, but I'd like to point out that Duke Nukem 3D, with its "Lack of Realism", is way more fun than Duke Nukem Forever and DNF uses the Unreal Engine.

[DeinonSlayer]

ruggly wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

ruggly wrote...
when Legion specifically says in ME2 that the Geth do not value individuality.  I saw them as alive, only in a different manner.

Perhaps he changed his mind when the geth's race intelligence was so lowered by the quarian war that they sided with the Reapers. It obviously saw the need for a change.

That's most likely.  But the line "We would be alive" still annoys me.

It annoys me too, and if taken literally to mean they aren't alive before the upload, there is zero reason on moral grounds for anyone to even consider siding with the Geth over the Quarians. I wrote an entire alternate Rannoch campaign which excised the Pinocchio code entirely, instead focusing more on what was forshadowed in ME2 with Xen. In its aftermath, the Geth actually are valued for their unique traits, instead of being stripped of them so they can "fit in" with organics.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 15 mars 2013 - 05:42 .

[ruggly]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

ruggly wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

ruggly wrote...
when Legion specifically says in ME2 that the Geth do not value individuality.  I saw them as alive, only in a different manner.

Perhaps he changed his mind when the geth's race intelligence was so lowered by the quarian war that they sided with the Reapers. It obviously saw the need for a change.

That's most likely.  But the line "We would be alive" still annoys me.

It annoys me too, and if taken literally to mean they aren't alive before the upload, there is zero reason on moral grounds for anyone to even consider siding with the Geth over the Quarians. I wrote an entire alternate Rannoch campaign which excised the Pinocchio code entirely, instead focusing more on what was forshadowed in ME2 with Xen. In its aftermath, the Geth actually are valued for their unique traits, instead of being stripped of them so they can "fit in" with organics.

I wish that there had been a way to create peace without uploading the code.  A lot of people may not agree with that idea, though. But if the crucible does only target reaper code in destroy, then the only loss in that scenario would have been EDI.

[DeinonSlayer]

ruggly wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

ruggly wrote...

That's most likely.  But the line "We would be alive" still annoys me.

It annoys me too, and if taken literally to mean they aren't alive before the upload, there is zero reason on moral grounds for anyone to even consider siding with the Geth over the Quarians. I wrote an entire alternate Rannoch campaign which excised the Pinocchio code entirely, instead focusing more on what was forshadowed in ME2 with Xen. In its aftermath, the Geth actually are valued for their unique traits, instead of being stripped of them so they can "fit in" with organics.

I wish that there had been a way to create peace without uploading the code.  A lot of people may not agree with that idea, though. But if the crucible does only target reaper code in destroy, then the only loss in that scenario would have been EDI.

I completely agree. In reality, after what happened with the IFF, I'd trust that code about as far as I can throw Heretic Station. We don't need the entire Geth fleet doing what the Rachni Breeder does to us. The only reason I make peace when I can is the meta-knowledge that it won't come back to bite us.

[Khelish]

Just imagine if that code made all Geth turn on you in the War.

Imagine all those "Paragons" that would switch their choice...

[Apocaleepse360]

Khelish wrote...

Just imagine if that code made all Geth turn on you in the War.

Imagine all those "Paragons" that would switch their choice...

For the record, Renegades can intimidate the quarians and geth into making peace with each other. 

[Apocaleepse360]

ruggly wrote...
I wish that there had been a way to create peace without uploading the code.  A lot of people may not agree with that idea, though. But if the crucible does only target reaper code in destroy, then the only loss in that scenario would have been EDI.

I agree, the way the geth functioned is one of the reasons why I like them. But I don't even understand why EDI and the geth couldn't have survived the destroy ending in the first place, to be honest. The geth were sent to work on the Crucible. Surely they would have figured out "oh wait, we have Reaper code. This might affect us, so we'd better make some adjustments to make sure that doesn't happen". But then again, common sense appears to be in short supply in just about the entire Mass Effect 3 storyline, aside from the Genophage Cure plot which seemed to actually make some sense.

[AlanC9]

Well, if that had happened we'd have discovered that the Crucible doesn't target just "Reaper code." That idea seems to be a fan invention in the first place.

[Khelish]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Just imagine if that code made all Geth turn on you in the War.

Imagine all those "Paragons" that would switch their choice...

For the record, Renegades can intimidate the quarians and geth into making peace with each other. 

Yeah, uh, claiming to "enjoy" watching the Quarian civilians get slaughtered...

How anyone could choose that dialogue is beyond me...

[DeinonSlayer]

Khelish wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Just imagine if that code made all Geth turn on you in the War.

Imagine all those "Paragons" that would switch their choice...

For the record, Renegades can intimidate the quarians and geth into making peace with each other. 

Yeah, uh, claiming to "enjoy" watching the Quarian civilians get slaughtered...

How anyone could choose that dialogue is beyond me...

I watched the post-Rannoch crew reaction vids on YouTube. If you exterminate the Quarians and talk to Joker later, he asks why the Quarians didn't stop shooting. One of Shepard's options, I sh!t you not, is "they were stupid."

Whoever shot the vid didn't choose that dialogue option, so I'm not sure what happens; I only hope that Joker or EDI confront Shepard about not telling them about the upload in the first place if you pick it.

[Steelcan]

Khelish wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Just imagine if that code made all Geth turn on you in the War.

Imagine all those "Paragons" that would switch their choice...

For the record, Renegades can intimidate the quarians and geth into making peace with each other. 

Yeah, uh, claiming to "enjoy" watching the Quarian civilians get slaughtered...

How anyone could choose that dialogue is beyond me...

. It's a bluff of course!

Modifié par Steelcan, 15 mars 2013 - 06:38 .

[Straw Nihilist]

Nah, still can't shake the feeling that somewhere, someplace, I'm dropping the population of cybertron to zil'.

Modifié par Ser Bones, 15 mars 2013 - 06:42 .

[Burnham1]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...
 The geth were sent to work on the Crucible. Surely they would have figured out "oh wait, we have Reaper code. This might affect us, so we'd better make some adjustments to make sure that doesn't happen".

No one knew what the crucible would do when attached to the citadel. They would have no way of knowing what to protect themselves from or if they even could protect themselves from whatever would happen.

[Barquiel]

But...that would be metagaming

I couldn't make peace, picked the geth over quarians, and then choose destroy. I guess the Turians can colonize Rannoch now...

[Wayning_Star]

the only redeeming factor to destroy is the slim chance Shepard can tell the MEU what he/she knows about the catalyst and it's problematic warning about synthesis and it's eventuality. You either use tools or they'll use you eventually. It's a force of nature through evolution. Organics needs synthetics more than synthetics needs organics.

The downside is that Shep and the organics of the MEU "must" destroy all traces of reaper technology, as it's key to evocation/advances in/of synthetics to life form. Damaged goods, if you intend to prosper as organic without competition, invoking some apparent rule of evolution. Apparently that road if paved with good intentions.

The crucible is only a symptom of organic need for advance technology. As is the catalyst and it's apparent reaperships, who are merely clerks in the MEU storing stuff of future past generations of both organic and synthetic origin. More tools, of tools no less.

Ascension is merely the idea that organics need advanced tech to advance as to exist without it is NOT to advance. A generic form and supposed easy route designed of evolution. Organic evolve to created them, so it's logical to assume they are the reason for organic ascension, as we cannot have one without the other, etc.

[Norbulus]

I am saying this for last time, destroy option also causes malfunction in electronical databases. This is a huge stepback.

[ruggly]

Wayning_Star wrote...
Shepard can tell the MEU what he/she knows about the catalyst

That is pretty much what I headcanoned before, but the snipped off part.  If I were so inclined, Shepard could advocate for synthesis alongside synthetic rights.

The downside is that Shep and the organics of the MEU "must" destroy all traces of reaper technology

That, I don't agree with. Unless you're saying 'must' because the crucible just happens to do so anyways. Nothing wrong with using the leftover technology to our advantage.  Isn't that what a lot of controllers do as well? Use the reapers and their technology to fix what was destroyed.

Modifié par ruggly, 15 mars 2013 - 07:14 .

[MegaSovereign]

Ser Bones wrote...

Nah, still can't shake the feeling that somewhere, someplace, I'm dropping the population of cybertron to zil'.

Does Optimus Prime have a soul?

[draken-heart]

I see a problem with OP. Seems that to avoid committing Genocide at the end, you have to do it before. Even if they are not living, they are a "form" of "life" and I see no reason to kill the geth when the idea of 'it was all a dream' is an interpretation of the ending (not saying I.T.)

also, what the Starbrat says about Synthetics vs Organics can be applied to  parents vs children, so should organic parents kill their children because their children will grow up and 'evolve' past relying on their parents someday?

Modifié par draken-heart, 15 mars 2013 - 07:23 .

[Voodoo2015]

Norbulus wrote...

I am saying this for last time, destroy option also causes malfunction in electronical databases. This is a huge stepback.

Still better than the other choices. Shepard's God complex.
All this power top of my finger I'm the new catalyst do as I say or I'll kill you.
Or I'll force everyone to become something entirely new.
Do know that Shepard did not want to lose their humanity.
"Not if we loose our humanity in the process.'m Out there fighting to stop crap like this!"

[Voodoo2015]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ser Bones wrote...

Nah, still can't shake the feeling that somewhere, someplace, I'm dropping the population of cybertron to zil'.

Does Optimus Prime have a soul?

What is a soul?
Perhaps all living things have a soul!

[Bill Casey]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

My shep also has a neutral opinion when it comes to geth and the matter of souls but couldn't express it in ME3 I had to choose between "The reaper code made them beautiful!" or "They're just a bunch of goddamn MACHINES!" When I really wanted to say "I trust legion and I want the geth to co-exist with the other races but I don't compare organic life to them because they are not the same"

You actually don't have to say one of those things if you skip the investigate option beforehand...
Much like the "big stupid jellyfish" line, it's technically optional...

Or by picking agree then disagree you can say it is life, but you'll kill anyone who is working with the reapers...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 mars 2013 - 07:36 .

[daigakuinsei]

Norbulus wrote...

I am saying this for last time, destroy option also causes malfunction in electronical databases. This is a huge stepback.

Where are you deriving this info from?  It doesn't comport with the ending showing ships still flying through space.