466 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

You commit genocide anyhow because your decision on Rannoch ultimately leads to the Geths extinction, and your Shepard knows that it will thus why he/she says sorry when making the choice.

You're still making the conscious choice to destroy them, the fact that other people carry out the deed doesn't absolve you from responsibility.

[Khelish]

Eterna5 wrote...

You commit genocide anyhow because your decision on Rannoch ultimately leads to the Geths extinction, and your Shepard knows that it will thus why he/she says sorry when making the choice.

You're still making the conscious choice to destroy them, the fact that other people carry out the deed doesn't absolve you from responsibility.

I said as much, OP didn't respond...

[thearbiter1337]

That's some hardcore Metagaming right there

[Wayning_Star]

ruggly wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Shepard can tell the MEU what he/she knows about the catalyst

That is pretty much what I headcanoned before, but the snipped off part.  If I were so inclined, Shepard could advocate for synthesis alongside synthetic rights.

The downside is that Shep and the organics of the MEU "must" destroy all traces of reaper technology

That, I don't agree with. Unless you're saying 'must' because the crucible just happens to do so anyways. Nothing wrong with using the leftover technology to our advantage.  Isn't that what a lot of controllers do as well? Use the reapers and their technology to fix what was destroyed.

no I'm saying that if the catalyst knowledge is to be utilized for intelligence and a complete 'wipe' of all synthetics, it would be a total thing, or it wouldn't work. The entire MEU is designed of that stuff BY that stuff(catalyst built the MEU infrastructure, not good.) so it's  a given that all things catalyst have the potential of causing more grief. The catalyst it's self had witnessed the revival of countless conflict over billions of years via the creation and destruction of opposing forces, being synthetics and organics. So, the MEU powers that be would have to remove that threat to actually upend the chaos, or end the reaper threat. They'd be back in some form to limit chaos.

IN effect, using the tech that cause for the conflict is risky if not disingenuous. IF we can take the catalysts' word for anything and decide to destroy on that information. Destruction would have to be total to erase the possibility of synthetic life forms creation, as they're the nidus of chaos, apparently.(well, actually organics are the start of it, as they need the technology to survive and with that advance, evolve. (the trap?)

edit: to fight for synthetic life form 'rights' seems hypocritical, just after wiping out their best examples. That memory would most likely be remembered some where in history and cause for strife, wouldn't it? Shepard couldn't stand for any of those things after destroy, politically incorrect.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 15 mars 2013 - 07:46 .

[MegaSovereign]

The Geth didn't seem to mind destroying the Quarians without Shepard's intervention.

[tonofluck21]

And risk losing the chance to romance a Geth in a future installment?!!!

Never!!!

[Wayning_Star]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Geth didn't seem to mind destroying the Quarians without Shepard's intervention.

chaos has the effect on people...

[SeptimusMagistos]

So you want to avoid committing genocide...by committing genocide earlier.

Brilliant!

[Khelish]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

So you want to avoid committing genocide...by committing genocide earlier.

Brilliant!

To be fair, the Geth VI makes you choose between killng Quarians or the Geth.

You have to choose in that scene.

[ruggly]

Wayning_Star wrote...
edit: to fight for synthetic life form 'rights' seems hypocritical, just after wiping out their best examples. That memory would most likely be remembered some where in history and cause for strife, wouldn't it? Shepard couldn't stand for any of those things after destroy, politically incorrect.

True enough, and thankfully now I don't have to worry about that. 

And yes, people would be more likely to remember the Geth for what they did before they joined the fight against the Reapers.  But there would also be some who remember what they did for the fight as well, namely the Quarians.  It's a strange situation, and a lesson to be learned, certainly.  But there's no reason why people can't learn from it and go "hey, perhaps we should start treating synthetics as equals." (heading into headcanon territory, but deal with it).

Unless your Shepard is about as anti-synthetic as possible, it's always a possibility.

[MegaSovereign]

The Geth VI must be a racist old Geth.

[DeinonSlayer]

Khelish wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

So you want to avoid committing genocide...by committing genocide earlier.

Brilliant!

To be fair, the Geth VI makes you choose between killng Quarians or the Geth.

You have to choose in that scene.

Same story with that milk-sop Shala'Raan, though there's really no reason Shepard couldn't have broadcast the same warning he does in the Peace outcomes besides the writers' desire for equal outcomes.

[Errationatus]

The only real pity is that you can't just kill both, if you'd rather.

Aside from that, so yeah, off the quarians.

I mean, c'mon - you don't punish the kid for being a kid, you fine the parent.  You don't beat the dog for being a dog, you penalize the owner.  The quarians are a race of unbelievably shortsighted cretins who not only got what they deserved but then decided - in the middle of the absolute end-of-days-war-to-end-all-wars to proceed to go to war with machines that whupped their sorry wideloads in every single other encounter to retake a planet that was ALREADY infested with Reapers.

All because the early Talinfestation demanded significant content for an intensely vapid and wretchedly-anime-derivative character that displays not one ounce of competance in the whole series when given anything other to do that doesn't involve crying about antihistamine or valves to turn or ducts to burn in.

Without them, the numbingly-tedious Rannoch arc (pretty much C/P'd from Tuchanka) would have been a mildly annoying footnote, and we might have got expanded battles on Thessia or Earth instead, or those hugely important war assets to mean something  *snicker*, rather than the fan service it so blatantly served.

"It's totally worth it" to watch that silly gypsy chicken backward-swandive off that cliff, provided of course, she didn't take a Collector missile to the face, that is.

Granted, if you don't kill her, you get that oh-so-satisfying "love song" she warbles at you in that crap DLC ******.  Turns out Tali's entire romance - and apparently most, if not all of her sweet nothings - with you as Shepard was a sad attempt to play out some Twilight - I mean "Fleet and Flotilla" fantasy!  Ah, man - I laughed til I damn-near cried.

It was bad enough Bioware basically told the fans to go fvck themselves with the Citadel DLC by making the characters ridiculous, the completely blatant GFY with Jack a prime example - but they really did a number on the Talilovers.   

[Aryck the One]

That... doesn't help at all. First, I couldn't stab Legion in the back without feeling like a total jerk, and second, I would still end up killing EDI.

[MegaSovereign]

If it's such a big deal, you could always headcanon the Geth being alive....considering the fact that they're never explicitly shown to die in the Destroy ending.

Also, Shepard doesn't know for sure if the Crucible will kill all the Geth. All he knows is that it will target all synthetics, but that's incredibly ambiguous.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 15 mars 2013 - 08:02 .

[Iakus]

Just because the genocide came earlier doesn't mean a genocide didn't take place

[DeinonSlayer]

@JakeMacDon - Obvious troll is obvious.

[Legbiter]

Han Shot First wrote...

When the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan, Allied POWs and Korean slave laborers were among the casualties. The intent was never to kill those people however, as the Japanese had been the target.

The destruction of EDI and the Geth is similar. It is a horrifying example of collateral damage. But murder? I think that goes a bit too far, as murder requires intent.

/thread.

[frostajulie]

Han Shot First wrote...

The destruction of EDI and the Geth as a consequence of using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers isn't an example of genocide. Its a horrifying example of collateral damage, however the destruction of the Reapers constitutes military necessity.

Military necessity is a legal concept used in international humanitarian law (IHL) as part of the legal justification for attacks on legitimate military targets that may have adverse, even terrible, consequences for civilians and civilian objects. It means that military forces in planning military actions are permitted to take into account the practical requirements of a military situation at any given moment and the imperatives of winning. The concept of military necessity acknowledges that even under the laws of war, winning the war or battle is a legitimate consideration, though it must be put alongside other considerations of IHL.

http://www.crimesofw...tary-necessity/

Thank you. It doesn't make me enjoy destroy any better but I do feel like less of an evil **** for my renegade choosing it. its like taking pepto for a tummy ache.  the pain is still there but now its coated in pink stuff that cools it off.

Maybe that doesn't make sense.  I have a cold but I take comfort in your post.

[Wayning_Star]

JakeMacDon wrote...

The only real pity is that you can't just kill both, if you'd rather.

Aside from that, so yeah, off the quarians.

I mean, c'mon - you don't punish the kid for being a kid, you fine the parent.  You don't beat the dog for being a dog, you penalize the owner.  The quarians are a race of unbelievably shortsighted cretins who not only got what they deserved but then decided - in the middle of the absolute end-of-days-war-to-end-all-wars to proceed to go to war with machines that whupped their sorry wideloads in every single other encounter to retake a planet that was ALREADY infested with Reapers.

All because the early Talinfestation demanded significant content for an intensely vapid and wretchedly-anime-derivative character that displays not one ounce of competance in the whole series when given anything other to do that doesn't involve crying about antihistamine or valves to turn or ducts to burn in.

Without them, the numbingly-tedious Rannoch arc (pretty much C/P'd from Tuchanka) would have been a mildly annoying footnote, and we might have got expanded battles on Thessia or Earth instead, or those hugely important war assets to mean something  *snicker*, rather than the fan service it so blatantly served.

"It's totally worth it" to watch that silly gypsy chicken backward-swandive off that cliff, provided of course, she didn't take a Collector missile to the face, that is.

Granted, if you don't kill her, you get that oh-so-satisfying "love song" she warbles at you in that crap DLC ******.  Turns out Tali's entire romance - and apparently most, if not all of her sweet nothings - with you as Shepard was a sad attempt to play out some Twilight - I mean "Fleet and Flotilla" fantasy!  Ah, man - I laughed til I damn-near cried.

It was bad enough Bioware basically told the fans to go fvck themselves with the Citadel DLC by making the characters ridiculous, the completely blatant GFY with Jack a prime example - but they really did a number on the Talilovers.   

well ,that's kind of thinking in absolutes to make for hypercritical assessments. Think of it as a puzzle so everyone can win something, that's what I did with reactionary Quarians and counter productive geth. They should'of just bugged out, as that's the logical thing to do, instead decide to take the Quarian homeworld away from them? The geth don't need the Quarians, so why bother? I think they missed their parents?

on the DLC, my frustration with that is unfathomable, but if folks enjoy it, I found it unrewarding to dis them, the DLC, not so much. grrrrr

all those gigabytes and NO lore...gall dern clawd hoppers!!

[Wayning_Star]

frostajulie wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The destruction of EDI and the Geth as a consequence of using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers isn't an example of genocide. Its a horrifying example of collateral damage, however the destruction of the Reapers constitutes military necessity.

Military necessity is a legal concept used in international humanitarian law (IHL) as part of the legal justification for attacks on legitimate military targets that may have adverse, even terrible, consequences for civilians and civilian objects. It means that military forces in planning military actions are permitted to take into account the practical requirements of a military situation at any given moment and the imperatives of winning. The concept of military necessity acknowledges that even under the laws of war, winning the war or battle is a legitimate consideration, though it must be put alongside other considerations of IHL.

http://www.crimesofw...tary-necessity/

Thank you. It doesn't make me enjoy destroy any better but I do feel like less of an evil **** for my renegade choosing it. its like taking pepto for a tummy ache.  the pain is still there but now its coated in pink stuff that cools it off.

Maybe that doesn't make sense.  I have a cold but I take comfort in your post.

yeah, I did that, ended up with a ruptured ulcer..

[Khelish]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@JakeMacDon - Obvious troll is obvious.

[DDG4005]

This again ?

[ruggly]

JakeMacDon wrote...

The only real pity is that you can't just kill both, if you'd rather.

Aside from that, so yeah, off the quarians.

I mean, c'mon - you don't punish the kid for being a kid, you fine the parent.  You don't beat the dog for being a dog, you penalize the owner.  The quarians are a race of unbelievably shortsighted cretins who not only got what they deserved but then decided - in the middle of the absolute end-of-days-war-to-end-all-wars to proceed to go to war with machines that whupped their sorry wideloads in every single other encounter to retake a planet that was ALREADY infested with Reapers.

All because the early Talinfestation demanded significant content for an intensely vapid and wretchedly-anime-derivative character that displays not one ounce of competance in the whole series when given anything other to do that doesn't involve crying about antihistamine or valves to turn or ducts to burn in.

Without them, the numbingly-tedious Rannoch arc (pretty much C/P'd from Tuchanka) would have been a mildly annoying footnote, and we might have got expanded battles on Thessia or Earth instead, or those hugely important war assets to mean something  *snicker*, rather than the fan service it so blatantly served.

"It's totally worth it" to watch that silly gypsy chicken backward-swandive off that cliff, provided of course, she didn't take a Collector missile to the face, that is.

Granted, if you don't kill her, you get that oh-so-satisfying "love song" she warbles at you in that crap DLC ******.  Turns out Tali's entire romance - and apparently most, if not all of her sweet nothings - with you as Shepard was a sad attempt to play out some Twilight - I mean "Fleet and Flotilla" fantasy!  Ah, man - I laughed til I damn-near cried.

It was bad enough Bioware basically told the fans to go fvck themselves with the Citadel DLC by making the characters ridiculous, the completely blatant GFY with Jack a prime example - but they really did a number on the Talilovers.   

ಠ_ಠ

Modifié par ruggly, 15 mars 2013 - 08:21 .