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[PnXMarcin1PL]

I have decided to make a comparison thread on Harrier X vs Lancer X. It's small comparisonI'm not detail freaky
The tests were done on Insanity difficulty on spectre shooting range to compare weapon dmg, and Chronos station raid mission (since I have no other save). I'll update the thread with priority Earth mission in 2nd post (focus on missile defense as it is perfect for test).
I used N7 armor set with just 10% weapon damage. Soldier class.

Harrier X with APmodV + MagV(36 bullets) = everyone knows this baby. Solid, reliable, OP as most trolls call it. (it's SP game, so there are no unfair advantages for AI anymore). It takes 3 shots without ammo power to take out a target, and 2 shots with every ammo power, except Cryo. Accuracy is extremely good, but ammo is limited. Of course there are tons lying around, and soldier can use Hornet X operative build as secondary weapon.
Time to assault TIM. Weapon tears through insanity and all enemies around. With incendiary explosive it not only tears everything, but also primes detonations for concussive shot perfectly. Never had to switch for smg. As I said, everyone knows this gun so there is not much to say.

Lancer X with APmodV + MagV(102shots before overheat) = now this weapon is new. Introduced in The Citadel (laughs) DLC. Accuracy is not bad, RoF much higher than Harrier's, DmG is slightly smaller but hey, Unlimited ammo ME1 style Who knew that lancer in ME1 was utter cr***, now it's one of top guns in ME3. On the shooting range it performed slightly worse than Harrier. It took 4 bullets to kill health target and 5 for armor&shield target. With ammo powers it was 3 bullets for health and armor, 4 shields. Not bad, in combat this difference is quickly neglected by RoF. On Chronos station this weapon performed a littlebit better than Harrier. Adrenaline Rush can be used to reset weapon cooldown.  It killed enemies faster than Harrier and set up incendiary explosions perfectly. Still accuracy was a bit off, once AR was activated, weapon outpefromed Harrier by far. SMG looked nice on the side, but I switched for M11 supressed as there is no need for smg anymore.
I can say openly that those are my two favourite and first choice AR's in entire ME3 game.
Please post your opinions on the weapons, tactic ideas and do ur own comparisons if you like
2nd post is reserved for priority Earth (please dont complain about the ending ...)

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Well my game style are fast&hard attacks with lots of tech/ammo/biotic explosions. Methodology on the shooting range was to fire one bullet at a time (semi-auto). I didnt know that ammo powers are broken on the shooting range. Guys, Typhoon is awesome, just give it to squaddies Yet this thread is about Harrier and Lancer. Sorry for no rof and dmg stat numbers, I simply dont have & know them.

Priority Earth. squaddies Liara & Javik aka Trollean

I have used Lancer X with the same mods as above along with incendiary explosive ammo. Weapon has performed really well. Shield defenses were a bit tougher to destroy (on mission: it took 2 more bullets than with harrier). Once the shields were down, enemies just kept exploding all around the place. First hold-out defense near missiles was very easy. Enemies kept attacking from above left flank, but they didn't even break the line (the failed for the 2nd time against the harirer). Lancer never overheated.
2nd wave was a bit more interesting.
As we all know, there is additional obstacle. Destroyer fires beam upon Shepard until he hides in the restaurant on the left or manages to steal the hydra and run to the right flank, a bit beside ground level. I chose left flank, simply because I wanted to test the gun while being surrounded. Lancer overheated just once, but I have immediatelly cancelled the animation with AR. I defended the restaurant until I ran out of medigel (squadmates like giving hugs to banshees). Lancer performance met my expectations. I did not have to make a break for the missile baterry because I ran out of thermal clips. That happened to me with Harrier & Hornet combo.
To sum things up, Lancer is a very good weapon. Although it lacks Harrier's damage and accuracy, it makes everything up with unlimited ammunition. In terms of assault rifles Harrier is still the best assault rifle, but Lancer is right behind him and keeps up with it effectively.

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 17 mars 2013 - 09:50 .

[Ledgend1221]

Why no Typhoon love?

[Epsilon330]

Don't forget the original powerhouse from ME2, the M-76.
Sure, the Revenant doesn't synergise well with non Soldier/Vanguard classes, but slap some Explosive Incendiary Ammo on it, and pair it up with Marksman, AdrenRush or straight after a Biotic Charge; and you've got a light-ish weapon that has a large clip size, no ramp-up, and enough power to be a real nuisance to Banshees and Brutes.

[capn233]

Hmmm.

Ammo powers don't work properly at the firing range. So as purely a gun to gun comparison that is a good place to go. If you are trying to figure things out with ammo powers, it doesn't help. Just FYI, not sure how you tested there.

As for the guns themselves... Lancer has only 50rpm more rate of fire than the Harrier, or a little less than 10% extra. It isn't like it is the GPR compared to the Harrier or anything ROF wise. Both are adequate for IEB effects, although not as good as the weapons with high rates of fire.

Harrier has nearly twice as much damage per shot as the Lancer. At medium to long range, the Harrier is superior against any humanoid target because of the higher damage and accuracy. Against bosses it depends. The Lancer's burst DPS is fairly similar to reload canceled Harrier's sustained DPS. So if you can one-clip with a 100 shot Lancer, they should perform somewhat similarly with maybe a slight edge to Lancer due to slightly higher IEB detonation.

Personally, I still prefer the Harrier on a Soldier. But the Lancer is quite effective as well. I use it at Armax when No Thermal Clips is enabled. On the Soldier, would tend to use it as a lighter and then spam Concussive Shot for fire explosions. You can of course go Adrenaline Rush for damage, but against basics it is largely faster to go CS spam.

The Revenant comparison to Lancer is definitely warranted. If you look at the stats, the ROF and damage per shot aren't all that dissimilar. Of course, Revenant is drastically less accurate, and actually has lower damage per shot (a travesty), but has a higher ROF (650 vs 600). And in fact it has higher burst DPS than Lancer, so for one-clip enemies at close range the Revenant should be slightly ahead, although this gap is fairly narrow, and at range Lancer is nearly always going to be better. Against bosses it is probably a wash most of the time.

[RA RA XD]

Epsilon330 wrote...

Don't forget the original powerhouse from ME2, the M-76.
Sure, the Revenant doesn't synergise well with non Soldier/Vanguard classes, but slap some Explosive Incendiary Ammo on it, and pair it up with Marksman, AdrenRush or straight after a Biotic Charge; and you've got a light-ish weapon that has a large clip size, no ramp-up, and enough power to be a real nuisance to Banshees and Brutes.

This was a highlight of ME2 for me. My soldier would destroy EVERYTHING with the revenant and inferno ammo. Anything long range could be delt with equally as easily thanks to the viper. 

That reminds me, does the viper sinergise as well with the revenant as it did in ME2 ? The synergy there was incredible 

[RedCaesar97]

RA RA XD wrote...

That reminds me, does the viper sinergise as well with the revenant as it did in ME2 ? The synergy there was incredible 

The ME3 Viper is but a pale shadow of what it was in ME2. The closest equivalent now is the Raptor. 

Personally, I thought the ME2 Revenant had its defense multipliers backwards. It should have gotten a better damage bonus versus shields than armor, but instead it was better against armor than shields. 

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 16 mars 2013 - 01:42 .

[RA RA XD]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Personally, I thought the ME2 Revenant had its defense multipliers backwards. It should have gotten a better damage bonus versus shields than armor, but instead it was better against armor than shields. 

The armor multiplier was what made it so good against husk rushes, you could just stand your ground and hip fire the thing for days. The lack of geth made the poorer shield multiplier some what negligable

Modifié par RA RA XD, 16 mars 2013 - 01:59 .

[RedCaesar97]

RA RA XD wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Personally, I thought the ME2 Revenant had its defense multipliers backwards. It should have gotten a better damage bonus versus shields than armor, but instead it was better against armor than shields. 

The armor multiplier was what made it so good against husk rushes, you could just stand your ground and hip fire the thing for days. The lack of geth made the poorer shield multiplier some what negligable

And yet you had a ton of mercs with shields...

So as a Soldier you had Pistol, Sniper rifle (Viper), and Revenant which were all good to great against armor, but only had shotguns which were great against shields but you needed to be close, and the Revenant was merely mediocre against shields. Armor was never a problem for Soldiers.

I actually wish the Soldier had SMGs instead. One of these days I am going to mod in SMGs for a Soldier and do a Pistol-SMG Soldier playthrough. Soldier with Shuriken and Tempest should be fun.

[capn233]

Revenant and Viper were adequate against shielded mercs though. Especially with Adrenaline Rush bonus. I never really missed an anti-shield weapon on a Soldier. Then again I was usually using Miranda and Garrus to remove shields.

[Ledgend1221]

The ME2 Rev had a 1.2 multiplier against shields right?
That's still pretty danm good.

[capn233]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The ME2 Rev had a 1.2 multiplier against shields right?
That's still pretty danm good.

It's not 2x good, like the anti-shield guns though

[Vicious Mello]

Wasn't there an assault rifle shield-penetration research upgrade? I imagine that helped.

[capn233]

Vicious Mello wrote...

Wasn't there an assault rifle shield-penetration research upgrade? I imagine that helped.

Yes that does help a bit for armor, shields and barriers. +25%

SMG's / Shotguns get 2x from Shield Piercing upgrade (or rather it is +50%, most have innate 1.5x to start with).

Modifié par capn233, 16 mars 2013 - 05:35 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Oh well I never knew that ammo powers dont work right on the shooting range xD Tbh, after playing priority Earth I can say with clean conscience, that both guns are extremely good. One just needs to find a way to handle them right.

[RA RA XD]

Don't forget the GPS for shields, Caesar and like capn said, the combination of AR on a 3 second cool down and the ridiculously good inferno ammo still dropped enemies very quickly, shields or no.

I would really like to see how those SMGs perform under AR though, awesome idea!

[PnXMarcin1PL]

smgs with inferno explosive ammo are very good cqc guns. Hornet hurricane and bloodpack smg are insane. Even more with ar enabled