154 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

She can get killed by Harbinger at the end of the game.

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

I'll fix that right away.

So you're rushing to change a source of information that dissuades the point you were making?

That doesn't look pathetic. 

[crimzontearz]

reunion scene in primis

then axe Leng, starbrat and dumb Cerberus......then replace them with a better villain, Vendetta and a decently written Cerberus

[David7204]

If you have have any argument for me on why it's Plot Armor, by all means, let me hear it. But I don't think you do.

Modifié par David7204, 15 mars 2013 - 10:38 .

[FeralEwok]

 Thankfully I'm not a writer for BW because I would have wanted to go a different direction in just about every way besides the Genophage subplot.
I'm by no means a professional, and I respect and appreciate the work they put into their games. That said this is what I would have reworked

- The Introduction: (All of it)

I could tell something was going to be off/wrong just from watching the introduction to the game. Overall it's a very rushed sequence in comparison to say Mass Effect 1's intro. ME1's beginning is stretched out (If you wish for it to be) by stopping at every nook and corner of the Normandy to talk to the people on board while en route to Eden Prime. Some of the most important information/background setting up is given out during this sequence. We learn about humanity's position in the galaxy, that there's friction between other races, there's an organization called Spectres, Shepard is a prolific figure in the military, there was a race of ancient aliens that went extinct 50,000 years ago, and all of this is done within the first 20 minutes. This may or may not have been intentional, but I always took it as a way of setting up just exactly what kind of game/story this is going to be. ME1 is all about exploration.

ME2 is about taking everything we discovered, achieved, and learned about ME1 and shaking it up violently. This is made perfectly clear in the 10 minute intro sequence where our hero DIES. The Normandy, which players have grown fond of by now is ripped to shreds in a horrible fashion without even being able to put up a fight. That feeling of helplessness and inability to fight this mystery force finally comes full circle in the end of the game when Shepard attacks the Collector base with a bigger, stronger, and better force that they spent a whole game working to achieve. So there's an even bigger pay off.
Compare that to the first 20 minutes of ME3

Shepard and the Normandy have been grounded for six months. We're not sure if he's technically a prisoner, an adviser, or is just kinda mucking about. We have no idea what he/she has been up to and the same could be said for the Alliance. They seem like they are prepping for the invasion half-heartedly and still shocked when the Reapers appear. Similar to ME2 the enemy sweeps in and destroys any real resistance. Where it differed was that the set up was poorly done. The Reapers sort of in a lack luster fashion show up. Some things blow up, and Shepard sees a child die.  It's very rushed and lacks any real emotional impact.

What I would have done:

-No Vega:
While I like the character, it doesn't happen until much later and it's only a minor like. I'd get rid of James Vega as he is totally unnecessary to the story and Shepard's team. He's supposedly there to be the "normal" guy, the one that acts as a vehicle for new comers. And that's what's essentially wrong with Vega. A.) The last chapter in a trilogy, despite some BW/EA employee's quotes, is NOT a good place to start out. The need for any character to be confused about past history and ask "what's going on" "what happened" and "who are you?" is unnecessary. B.) Shepard and every PC since the beginning of gaming acts as the Player's/Audience's vehicle. Normal guys are brought into a story to give someone for the audience to sympathize with and want to see them triumph over whatever struggle lies ahead after they spend some time getting to know them. Vega just shows up, no explanation as to who he is, seems to be chummy with Shepard (enough to still call him/her commander and shake his hand) We don't know what Vega means to Shepard. The solution to this would be making the VS responsible for Shepard's security detail. It eliminates an unnecessary character while at the same time bringing back an old one and giving them purpose. You could even play up the tension (that they clearly wanted with the VS) because here's Shepard's once subordinate now bossing him/her around. Allows for Shepard to either work their charm on them to make the VS see that Shep is still one of the good guys/gals OR allows for Shepard to get more and more aggitated and aggressive and strain the relationship even further. Would help some players even feel bad later on when they see the VS get badly beaten by Eva.

-Trial/Hearing: 

It was teased in the end of Arrival that Shepard would have to answer at some point in the near future for destroying an entire system with a mass relay.  And BW stuck to that...sort of. The whole reason for Arrival wasn't so much to empower players and make them feel awesome by delaying the Reaper invasion for six months or to give players a particularly interesting DLC. It was a set up to bring Shepard and the Normandy back to the Alliance come Me3. So in that regard BW kept true to that. Where they went wrong is in the execution. The intro is a rushed mess where Shepard is just on autopilot until they leave Earth. A trial would have given players the opportunity to remember what all has been happening (and I guess help out those newcomers too *see you dont need Vega*) This allows brings back some control of Shepard. The ability to keep your cool or lambast the Alliance for their incompetence in the face of an incoming invasion is, from a roleplay perspective, much better than spouting out quick trailer-esq lines like "we fight or we die" 

I would have suggested that during this trial, we cut to the reapers slowly advancing and taking out obstacles throughout the Sol system. So the player is experiencing this unnecessary witch hunt in which they have to defend themselves...all the while they are fully aware that at any moment they might be attacked. You don't know exactly when the attack is going to happen, but you KNOW it's coming. The longer you delay it (up to a point) the more paranoid the player will become. We've never seen a true Reaper invasion and we've waited roughly 5 years for this moment. Don't blow your wad too soon. Give us a little foreplay first.

-The Importance of Earth:


I really don't care how you try to spin it around, the simple fact of the matter is that Earth was a cheap device to make the players feel emotional. We're human and we're from Earth...so we would supposedly feel sadder about seeing earth get destroyed. This happens in a lot of movies and with little to no effect. The villian(s) inexplicibly target earth because we're from there. While it's true that it was the nearest relay after the destruction of the Alpha relay, from an emotional standpoint Earth means practically nothing to most Shepards. The only few that might really have any sort of attachment would be Earthborn Shepards, and it's implied in Me1 that living on earth is pretty crappy. 

We never once go to Earth in ME1 or ME2 and consequently we just don't care much about it. It has no value to the overall story where as some place like Tuchanka or the Citadel is more ingrained into the players memory. Seeing a destroyed Earth doesn't do anything for us because it isn't simply just seeing a warzone that strikes an emotional note to an audience member. It's when the warzone was a place where you shared a beer with a friend over at that bar now in flames, or when you grew up down that street that is now a crater...basically anything where it holds sentimental value. 

I feel that if the finale had been focused on the Citadel or really anywhere that had pre-established importance would have given the players a greater since of importance. 

-Cerberus


I'm not a Cerberus fanboy. Far from it in fact. But the way that the organization was treated in ME3 was just sort of messed. The way they tried to present them to us in ME2 was a very grey moral area. TIM was not good by any means, but he also wasn't evil...at least that's what they tried to show us.  But in all actuality you find out that despite TIM's more shifty motives, there are quite a few people in Cerberus that are actually trying to achieve a common (good and worthwhile goal) in Me2. They want to stop the Collectors and no one else will. We meet people like Ken, Gabby, Chambers, Gardner, EDI, Jacob, and even Miranda who, while not perfect, are clearily not moustache twirling evil doers. All the same people of Cerberus left prior to ME3 when TIM started his new indoctrination program, and suddenly now Cerberus went from being a shades of grey org./necessary evil to just plain evil. Having them be a potential ally or threat and not letting the player know for sure until the end would have given TIM more of that mystery that made him a good character. He was the wild card and we never quite knew what to expect. Instead he and Cerberus were just another obstacle in the way in a time where really we want to focus on defeating the Reapers. 

Won't get too into it, but I also would argue that the TIM/Anderson/Shepard standoff where TIM shoots himself is either a very sloppy attempt to be thematic or a lazy rip off of the Saren/Shepard standoff in ME1. I would have made the final conflict with TIM be a debate about helping Shepard or helping TIM. If TIM has decided finally that Shepard was right in that the galaxy was more important than advancing humanity and TIM say...sacrificed himself to save trillions...majority of whom were aliens...then it'd have given TIM an arc. It's more potent than relying on Indoctrination...a cheap tool that allows writers to quickly introduce/explain a situation. 


-Balance of Characters from ME1 and ME2

I would argue that despite all the flaws of ME3 the most glaring is the ommision of the ME2 cast. Now don't get me wrong I love the ME1 cast. But I grew to love the ME2 cast as well. Since the focus of ME2 was more on characters than plot...in fact the plot was pretty bare bones...we managed to get more time to meet, talk, understand, and eventually grow to either like or dislike these characters. All of our hard work pays off in the end when manage to get this rag-tag team of misfits and outcasts to work together and defeat a dangerous enemy. While I loved the ME1 cast I didn't feel the same sense of commardery until ME3. It was ME2 that first did it and the nailed it in the Suicide Mission. 

So to spend all that time with them only to have them practically disappear in the final act felt like a great loss. I wouldn't say that they needed to be in Shepard's squad, rather that they just needed something better to do. Mordin is a clear example of Bioware doing it right. Miranda is a clear example of Bioware doing it wrong. Mordin is invaluble to the Genophage plot. You miss something when he isnt there. He has a clear responsibility that prevents him from joining Shepard again and it allows for him to actually grow as a character even more. Some people cared about the krogans or at least Wrex...and throwing Mordin in there too gave it even more emotional weight. Having him play a key role where he can finally redeem himself is basically story gold. It practically writes itself. 

Take that versus Miranda. ME2 showed me a Miranda that I thought was a little deeper than what we see on the surface. I always pegged her as actually very very unconfident and even aware of her sometimes ineptitude. She overcompensates and as a result she's seen as ****y or cold. It wasn't until the very end of her role in ME2 that I felt like we were seeing her start to change and that ME3 we would see her come into the person she needed to be. But it never happened. She regressed as a character by focusing on simply trying to find her sister (again) and dealing with her father (AGAIN) She was suppose to be TIM's right hand woman, yet her role in trying to stop Cerberus is minimized to Sanctuary and even then her main goal was her sister...not stopping Cerberus. I would have made her the leader in the resistance against TIM. Taking on former Cerberus opperatives and having them retake their organization from a man who has lost touch. This would have allowed her to be that competent and skilled leader that she wanted to be in ME2 but wasnt. 

It isn't so much screen time as it is the throwing away of a character. Mordin isn't in it for long, Legion isn't in it for long, and Jack isn't in it for long...but we still see them developing and doing something worthwhile. 


-The Ending

Sigh

I can't say anything about this that wouldn't be just me beating a dead horse. 

Leave the metaphysical stuff out. Don't make the whole trilogy suddenly get railroaded into a debate about Organics vs Synthetics, and if you intend on making the final part of the game be some epic battle of all the races in the galaxy vs the Reapers then let us actually see it throughout the whole level. All the things they teased us with in the main game never appeared and isntead we ran down very linear alleyways for 15 minutes just shooting stuff. 

ME2 showed us the Suicide Mission. I was hoping for that but even more refined and with bigger stakes.



Don't get me wrong guys. I love this game. I really do. There's a lot of that is great stuff...There's a lot of bad little things but I can let those go as you can't always make a perfect game. But the stuff I mentioned just never sat well with me.

It's just my opinion and I'm sure if anyone from BW was to respond to me they'd tell me "Yeah that's great, but we're not making your game we're making our game." And rightfully so. 

Modifié par FeralEwok, 15 mars 2013 - 10:51 .

[deatharmonic]

I'd re-work the whole game. Allowed the player to choose at the beginning of the game to either work with cerberus or the alliance. When the reapers hit earth the player would be given the opportunity to follow either Miranda or Anderson. I had a few pro cerberus Sheps and i remember being able to have a bit of a go at Anderson when you tell him the alliance turned their back on you. I would like to have continued role playing that type of Shep in ME3 along with a more cerebral cerberus.

Everyone who was willing to work with you under cerberus in ME2 would be available to you which excludes the VS and Vega. The VS was angry to see Shep with cerberus so I would expect that to stay consistent, and Vega has no particular loyalties to Shep. It would make for some interesting stand-off moments, especially if the VS was a LI, throw in some unique dialogue for that.

On top of that, I would have the neutral dialogue option back and the same level of autodialogue as ME2.

[Skullheart]

David7204 wrote...

If you have have any argument for me on why it's Plot Armor, by all means, let me hear it. But I don't think you do.

"Events that prevent important characters from dying or being seriously injured at dramatically inconvenient moments." Liara have it right on Thessia. Kai Leng totally ignores her, when in normal circunstantec he would have killed or wounded her. Kai Leng has killed or wounded any other character that has crossed on his path (in the novels and in the game),yet he let Liara walks away. That's plot armor, ignoring one character trait to make other survives.

[SlottsMachine]

Plot armor isn't a term that is applied well to videogames imo. But a focal character in the series, one that may be just as recognizable as Shepard being absent from the story for stupid reasons when basically everyone else went on that big suicide mission does kinda seem like plot armor.

[Aurora313]

Well - I would allow a chance for Liara to die without screwing over the rest of the galaxy too. I'd also re-include the VS-like choice from the leaked script - to save either Liara of the VS on Thessia, but I'd only do that if the opposition was right. I mean I'd have two gun ships, a bucket load of phantoms, Dragoons - basically having overwhelming odds.

I'd also replace the Catalyst's form with that of the Dead VS as a point to really hit home and seemingly give Shepard a reason to accept the information at face value. (in fact, I'd just get rid of the child, period.)

Also the ability to literally slap Liara out of her overly dramatic whining after Thessia - everyone else's worlds are burning, they're still fighting their asses off. She's moping in a corner.

I'd also have Kai Leng's roll expanded a bit to help emphasis that he's supposed to be Shepard's rival, not a god-sue that cannot be killed before his alotted time. And if that didn't have the desired effect, I'd kick him out and replace him with the clone. Maybe the clone kills him for being so useless against Shepard.

I'd also have Shepard call the Quarrians out on their idiocy during the Rannoch arc BIGTIME. Especially since I asked them not to engage in a (largely) one-sided and pointless conflict the previous game.

I'd make the Leviathans into the main enemy of the game as well. The created the Cycles and have approved of them since the Catalyst created the first Reaper. I'd make them the main villian that you'd have to fight at the end of the game. And the choice you make at the end impacts on how well you manage to fight them off.

Modifié par Aurora313, 15 mars 2013 - 11:07 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

It's pretty much the same with level design. People blame the writers for not getting completely new missions for the Rachni choice, for instance. That almost certainly has nothing to do with the writers. It's the work in building a level.

Your lack of knowledge and understanding of game development annoys me.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 15 mars 2013 - 11:04 .

[Kesak12]

Mumba1511 wrote...

I'll be the first to say that I'd change the endings.

[The Heretic of Time]

If I could change the story of Mass Effect, I would start with ME2. The issues in that game should be fixed first before we can fix ME3.

[Soul Tumor]

 Write a scene where Shepard gets pulled out of the rubble. I also would write a better way for the catalyst to be represented. Never could gt into the fact he took the form of the air duct kid.bplus write the dream sequences to show Shepard blaming himself over the deaths of his crew, not the kid. One more thing, show Tali's face! I lied, priority earth to show assets at work and ending show assets as well.

[The Night Mammoth]

Skullheart wrote...

David7204 wrote...

If you have have any argument for me on why it's Plot Armor, by all means, let me hear it. But I don't think you do.

"Events that prevent important characters from dying or being seriously injured at dramatically inconvenient moments." Liara have it right on Thessia. Kai Leng totally ignores her, when in normal circunstantec he would have killed or wounded her. Kai Leng has killed or wounded any other character that has crossed on his path (in the novels and in the game),yet he let Liara walks away. That's plot armor, ignoring one character trait to make other survives.

Why is Liara being singled out from in this example? Both Shepard and the other squadmate survive the encounter in pretty much the same way. 

[Kataphrut94]

I've been replaying ME2 and it staggers me just how badly handled the Cerberus stuff is. Bringing me back from the dead was all well and lovely, but none of the characters who represent Cerberus are in any way likeable. The Illusive Man is affable but his ruthless attitude is often irrational, Jacob at least knows the score but his reasons for being with them in the first place are pretty ham-fisted (red tape? Really, would you and every other character in this series care to elaborate on that?), Miranda's really not making any friends with her attitude and everybody else is trying to feebly dissassociate themselves from their own organisation.

What I'm saying is that despite all arguments to the contrary, it was smart of them to drop that angle in Mass Effect 3 like hot coals. When Miranda, Jacob and the engineers turn up again in 3 having left Cerberus, suddenly I feel a lot more well-disposed towards them. Plus, the Alliance characters like Cortez, Traynor, Vega and Adams were generally better in that regard anyway, so I'm not sure what the Cerberus business was all in aid of.

Sorry, was this meant to be about 3? I suppose if you rewrote 2 to not have you working for Cerberus, then 3 would be better by default. I'd argue to keep them as villains though, since they were good at that.

Also, I would have ditched the dream sequences. Those were terrible.

[Seboist]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I've been replaying ME2 and it staggers me just how badly handled the Cerberus stuff is. Bringing me back from the dead was all well and lovely, but none of the characters who represent Cerberus are in any way likeable. The Illusive Man is affable but his ruthless attitude is often irrational, Jacob at least knows the score but his reasons for being with them in the first place are pretty ham-fisted (red tape? Really, would you and every other character in this series care to elaborate on that?), Miranda's really not making any friends with her attitude and everybody else is trying to feebly dissassociate themselves from their own organisation.

What I'm saying is that despite all arguments to the contrary, it was smart of them to drop that angle in Mass Effect 3 like hot coals. When Miranda, Jacob and the engineers turn up again in 3 having left Cerberus, suddenly I feel a lot more well-disposed towards them. Plus, the Alliance characters like Cortez, Traynor, Vega and Adams were generally better in that regard anyway, so I'm not sure what the Cerberus business was all in aid of.

Sorry, was this meant to be about 3? I suppose if you rewrote 2 to not have you working for Cerberus, then 3 would be better by default. I'd argue to keep them as villains though, since they were good at that.

Also, I would have ditched the dream sequences. Those were terrible.

Yeah, it doesn't help either that Derperus ends up putting logos on everything that makes them look silly and get hit with the idiot ball often for the sake of contrived excuses for pew pew(Lazarus station has one of the flimsiest reasons for that in the series).

The writers utterly fail at giving context for what they do as well(ex. the whole super-biotic deal in Teltin) and the only idea of their endgame we get is some extremely vague notion of human dominance.

[Applepie_Svk]

I would ask for more money and at least one more year to finish the game...

[David7204]

Not anymore she ain't.

[EnvyTB075]

Mass Effect 3 would not be what was eventually released.

[Redbelle]

If I couldn't change the event's of ME, I'd generate a stronger link from the boy to the Catalyst through the dream sequence's while incorporating more game play potential than 'run here'.

Removal of stock catchphrase responses of Normandy crew and give them all dialogue wheel's with more back history and their perspective's on event's.

I'd have given Harbinger a larger role as well as giving Shepard the chance to board him in a Mako so he could drive through blasting him apart from the inside, before escaping and finishing him off with a Normady airstrike, finished with Joker yelling "Yeaaaaaaah! I know you felt that!".............. Because Harby's Worth It

Modifié par Redbelle, 16 mars 2013 - 12:18 .

[Skullheart]

David7204 wrote...

Not anymore she ain't.

Lol, obsessed to protect his waifu to even edit (in this case remove) information from the tvt tropes...

Don't know if that's pathetic or desesperate.

[TheGreatDayne]

First, I'd try to get over the fact that my attention span lasts long enough for me to write anything...
Then, I'd change the plot to be about drugs, illegal genetic modification on sentient species... and politics... just because...

[WheatleyHQ]

Given more dialogue with the crew, rewritten everything after Priority: Thessia (that mission included), expanded on the endings a little more, maybe even added in a few endings, more dialogue options with your love interest, and basically overhaul the whole Catalyst thing and make it Harbinger talking (because that seems more realistic, tbh)

[spirosz]

storyboardwritingisdifferent.