8 réponses à ce sujet

[sandalisthemaker]

 Bioware, it would be wonderful if we had the option to react to situations in a more sensitive manner- Especially as a male Inquisitor.
In most games, men are either stoic and emotionless or, full of aggression and rage. It is as if men are not allowed to feel sad or emotionally distraught. And if he cries, then that's it, he's immediately labeled a sissy. This is of course a product of the society in which we live.
DA2 was better than many games in this regard. I genuinely felt that Hawke appeared sad when his sibling(s) and mother died, but those scenes could have been made so much more powerful if Hawke had the option of showing more emotion.  
The same way we could choose a tone of voice, how about letting us choose a reaction to certain situations? We could choose to have our Inquisitor be stoic and emotionless, or profoundly moved in a positive or negative way.

[Allan Schumacher]

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

[Allan Schumacher]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

Even if you kill in self defense (in which not all battles are- a few murders can be player provoked, emphasis on "can", such as the prisoner in Ostagar), the fact that your character shrugs that off and is not at all psychologically effected is a pretty heavy hint towards some serious mental-emotional issues.

That's why I said typically.  Your player definitely can be a sociopath.  But fighting waves of enemies doesn't mean that one must be.

There's an aspect of scale that is perhaps implausible and definitely fantasy, but it's pretty much a trope.  Aragorn brutally kills copious amounts of hostiles but appears to still be reasonably well adjusted and compassionate, for example.

[Allan Schumacher]

TJPags wrote...
You didn't.

But clearly, the tone of this thread is that people want that.  And the whole "tone wheel" is starting to sound to me like an "emotion wheel".  And since we know BW hates a toggle, and has been limiting options in games lately (IMO) I want to make it clear that not everyone is interested in an emotional PC.

Then pick stoic for your tone.

Yep. It's really stupid to kill off characters that don't matter to the
player and try to make it all dramatic. The player just shrugs and moves
on.

I think it's more just a matter of how one approaches their roleplaying.  For some it will be a struggle, while for others it will still work (I had zero issue feeling emotion for Hawke's sibling, but Jenkins was mostly just a comic relief tongue in cheek kill based on pop culture meme).

[Allan Schumacher]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think it's more just a matter of how one approaches their roleplaying.  For some it will be a struggle, while for others it will still work (I had zero issue feeling emotion for Hawke's sibling, but Jenkins was mostly just a comic relief tongue in cheek kill based on pop culture meme).

I wasn't upset when Duncan died. I barely knew him. However, I ended up feeling bad later on when talking about him with Alistair. You got to know a little bit about Duncan's character through this other character who was still alive and in mourning.

With Hawke's mother, I never got that. She talks about Bethany or Carver a little bit, but then just goes on like nothing happened. Alistair brought up Duncan a lot in conversations and it seemed like it was something he was dealing with throughout the entire game.

Mama Hawke dying is another example of forced and unnecessary deaths. Beyond the fact that the whole scene was incredibly stupid (zombie mom!), the player has no reason to give a crap about his mother because you never get to know her.

You talk to her a few times about the estate and the family wealth, but that's about it. Then Bioware throws in the "Hawke is sad" moment and his friends or love interest pays him a visit to tell him that everything's okay, and apparently that's enough because he seems to get over it rather quickly. Player shrugs and moves on.

I think it's important to substitute "Player" with "EpicBoot2daFace"

It's unfortunate if it doesn't resonate as strongly for you, but given that it can still resonate strongly with people goes back to different people being different.

[Allan Schumacher]

Solmanian wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

I'm a veteran who saw substantial combat duty, as do many of my friends. It changes you. Some found religion, others became etheists, and some just got realy quiet. Though it was in different ways, they all changed. You can't kill people, especialy on a regular basis, without emotional repercussions. We may not have become "homicidal socipath" but we defintely didn't come out of unscathed.

Fantasy games aren't reality (which is probably a good thing).

If we were to do a game that goes on about the effects killing another living creature would have on someone, the only way to do it justice would be to have that be the central theme of the game.

[Allan Schumacher]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

People seriously cried at Leandra's death? I thought the scene was unintentionally comical as it looked like something from a Tim Burton flick.

More importantly, along with an option to be more sensitive, there should be an option to be apathetic.

I know, it was ****ing hilarious because of how stupid it was. Zombie Mom! What the hell was going through the writer's mind?

Oh, and for the people who cried over that scene... uhh... really?

Evidently people have taken the scene differently than you.

I'd rather not go down any paths of judging those people for being different human beings than you.

[Allan Schumacher]

That's fair enough, but killing someone who attacks you is only one way of resolving that situation. The character I was trying to play would have tried very hard to avoid those fights (via stealth, perhaps) and would have much preferred to run than fight once the various bandits or whoever were after him. l pursued that strategy with very limited success.

Fair, though that's more a critique of the game and the options provided to you than any sort of critique that the player is or is not emotionally affected by the killing.

I feel like this has a hint of the unsatisfying sociopath / not-sociopath dichotomy. Are all these things either / or? Is this something you can only either do justice to or not do justice to? Why the central theme? I think it would be more productive to think of this as something that scaled more than a switch you could turn on or off. How much justice can we do to this concept? How central of a theme should it be?

I think that attempting to do so in a less "all-in" perspective will likely find it come across as jarring and not entirely clear as to what is happening, and worst case even potentially disrespectful to those that do suffer from some afflictions.

What I mean by "all-in" I more mean "Make the game explicitly about how the character views and justifies *all* of the actions that he or she takes."


If you include this for killing, but not for other questionable acts (i.e. thievery since it was mentioned) could create some level of suspension of disbelief disruption.

If it's side commentary of "Wow I've killed a lot of people" is that really sufficient? If we make it start to actually have a tangible effect on the character, it becomes something very different and more interesting (and more challenging)

[Allan Schumacher]

Herp-a-derp, this thread has gone off topic. I want to be a dragon! (Allan has officially gone bonkers)