157 réponses à ce sujet

[AshenShug4r]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

 Bioware, it would be wonderful if we had the option to react to situations in a more sensitive manner- Especially as a male Inquisitor.
In most games, men are either stoic and emotionless or, full of aggression and rage. It is as if men are not allowed to feel sad or emotionally distraught. And if he cries, then that's it, he's immediately labeled a sissy. This is of course a product of the society in which we live.
DA2 was better than many games in this regard. I genuinely felt that Hawke appeared sad when his sibling(s) and mother died, but those scenes could have been made so much more powerful if Hawke had the option of showing more emotion.  
The same way we could choose a tone of voice, how about letting us choose a reaction to certain situations? We could choose to have our Inquisitor be stoic and emotionless, or profoundly moved in a positive or negative way.

what society is this? The one I live in, men are becoming feminised at a staggering rate, some almost indistinguishable from women.

[sandalisthemaker]

AshenShug4r wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

 Bioware, it would be wonderful if we had the option to react to situations in a more sensitive manner- Especially as a male Inquisitor.
In most games, men are either stoic and emotionless or, full of aggression and rage. It is as if men are not allowed to feel sad or emotionally distraught. And if he cries, then that's it, he's immediately labeled a sissy. This is of course a product of the society in which we live.
DA2 was better than many games in this regard. I genuinely felt that Hawke appeared sad when his sibling(s) and mother died, but those scenes could have been made so much more powerful if Hawke had the option of showing more emotion.  
The same way we could choose a tone of voice, how about letting us choose a reaction to certain situations? We could choose to have our Inquisitor be stoic and emotionless, or profoundly moved in a positive or negative way.

what society is this? The one I live in, men are becoming feminised at a staggering rate, some almost indistinguishable from women.

Please explain

[Solmanian]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Sensitive and caring man don't go around killing people. Your average RPG adventurer is an omnicidal socipath for hire. I'd like to see a game that acknowledges that this people have a serious problem. I liked what they did in KOTOR2: "you get stronger with every life you take! abomination!"; a realy interesting take on the whole XP in RPG's...

I'd rather have the option to not be an homicidal sociopath.

Than you shouldn't play a game where you roleplay a charecer that kills people on an hourly basis...

"I'd like to have the option to play a female PC."
"Then you shouldn't play a game where you have to roleplay a man!"

Such insight is why I come to the BSN.

How is that the same?

[dragondreamer]

Compartmentalization is the word of the day.  Also PTSD isn't the same thing as sociopathy.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

AshenShug4r wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

 Bioware, it would be wonderful if we had the option to react to situations in a more sensitive manner- Especially as a male Inquisitor.
In most games, men are either stoic and emotionless or, full of aggression and rage. It is as if men are not allowed to feel sad or emotionally distraught. And if he cries, then that's it, he's immediately labeled a sissy. This is of course a product of the society in which we live.
DA2 was better than many games in this regard. I genuinely felt that Hawke appeared sad when his sibling(s) and mother died, but those scenes could have been made so much more powerful if Hawke had the option of showing more emotion.  
The same way we could choose a tone of voice, how about letting us choose a reaction to certain situations? We could choose to have our Inquisitor be stoic and emotionless, or profoundly moved in a positive or negative way.

what society is this? The one I live in, men are becoming feminised at a staggering rate, some almost indistinguishable from women.

Please explain

Very strange. Have you considered moving?

[Absafraginlootly]

Blazomancer wrote...

I think it has been mentioned in the thread discussing paraphrasing that we'll be getting some sort of reaction wheel for certain situations when emotional responses are applicable. May be things are looking up after all.

Yes it was. http://social.biowar...x/16119851&lf=8

"In DA3, we are adding the "reaction wheel" to the previous two catergories. This covers any situation where an emotional response is called for, where the three tones don't cover the needed territory (sadness, shock, rage... or just being stoic if one prefers), but we haven't shown it yet nor will I discuss it much."

[MisanthropePrime]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Sensitive and caring man don't go around killing people. Your average RPG adventurer is an omnicidal socipath for hire. I'd like to see a game that acknowledges that this people have a serious problem. I liked what they did in KOTOR2: "you get stronger with every life you take! abomination!"; a realy interesting take on the whole XP in RPG's...

I'd rather have the option to not be an homicidal sociopath.

Than you shouldn't play a game where you roleplay a charecer that kills people on an hourly basis...

"I'd like to have the option to play a female PC."
"Then you shouldn't play a game where you have to roleplay a man!"

Such insight is why I come to the BSN.

The difference here is that violent sociopathy is required for a major facet of gameplay. I can't think about any games that "require" you to play a man other than some of those games that have touch screens inside urinals.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

I'm actually the opposite- I find I don't get nearly enough options to be an **** to people. I'm not joking here, it seems like Bioware just automatically assumes that, even if we don't like our companions, we at least respect them. I want to browbeat everyone into following me, and literally beat them if they step out of line. I mean, our characters go around murdering people all day, and don't tell me you never wanted to give Anders or Alistair five across the eyes when they got too whiny.

Thats sort of what bummed me out about the auto-dialogue in ME3. In ME1 and ME2 if you could be Paragon most of the time but when dealing with certain companions you could be kind of jerk with a renegade response. The auto-dialogue in ME3 sort of made it so that all my squad mates were my "friends" even though I didn't care for James. It didn't really matter with my canon Shep since he gets along with everybody most of the time. But from a rping perspective for trilogy replays it was sort of a bummer. 

[DialupToaster]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Sensitive and caring man don't go around killing people. Your average RPG adventurer is an omnicidal socipath for hire. I'd like to see a game that acknowledges that this people have a serious problem. I liked what they did in KOTOR2: "you get stronger with every life you take! abomination!"; a realy interesting take on the whole XP in RPG's...

I'd rather have the option to not be an homicidal sociopath.

Than you shouldn't play a game where you roleplay a charecer that kills people on an hourly basis...

"I'd like to have the option to play a female PC."
"Then you shouldn't play a game where you have to roleplay a man!"

Such insight is why I come to the BSN.

That awkward moment when your qoute actually makes sense... Your an idiot if you play a game that only has a male protagonist if you want to be a lady.

[Allan Schumacher]

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

[MisanthropePrime]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

Even if you kill in self defense (in which not all battles are- a few murders can be player provoked, emphasis on "can", such as the prisoner in Ostagar), the fact that your character shrugs that off and is not at all psychologically effected is a pretty heavy hint towards some serious mental-emotional issues.

[TheJediSaint]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

Even if you kill in self defense (in which not all battles are- a few murders can be player provoked, emphasis on "can", such as the prisoner in Ostagar), the fact that your character shrugs that off and is not at all psychologically effected is a pretty heavy hint towards some serious mental-emotional issues.

Is being jaded  a mental-emotional issue?

[Allan Schumacher]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I never buy into the idea that the characters are "homicidal sociopath" since one could argue that the attacks are typically in self-defense. When wandering Kirkwall, it was aggressive mobs attacking me, not me looking to stir up trouble.

Even if you kill in self defense (in which not all battles are- a few murders can be player provoked, emphasis on "can", such as the prisoner in Ostagar), the fact that your character shrugs that off and is not at all psychologically effected is a pretty heavy hint towards some serious mental-emotional issues.

That's why I said typically.  Your player definitely can be a sociopath.  But fighting waves of enemies doesn't mean that one must be.

There's an aspect of scale that is perhaps implausible and definitely fantasy, but it's pretty much a trope.  Aragorn brutally kills copious amounts of hostiles but appears to still be reasonably well adjusted and compassionate, for example.

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

[TJPags]

Please make this emotional crap optional.

The day my PC bursts out crying over anything, I toss the game into the nearest trash.

[TJPags]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

What if Hawke hated his family?  What if Hawke just isn't an emotional guy?

What if Hawke just doesn't want to show emotion in front of others?

[Plaintiff]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

I'm actually the opposite- I find I don't get nearly enough options to be an **** to people. I'm not joking here, it seems like Bioware just automatically assumes that, even if we don't like our companions, we at least respect them. I want to browbeat everyone into following me, and literally beat them if they step out of line. I mean, our characters go around murdering people all day, and don't tell me you never wanted to give Anders or Alistair five across the eyes when they got too whiny.

I never, ever wanted to strike Alistair or Anders.

[Plaintiff]

TJPags wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

What if Hawke hated his family?  What if Hawke just isn't an emotional guy?

What if Hawke just doesn't want to show emotion in front of others?

At no point did I say players should be forced to make their characters express an emotion.

[Dave of Canada]

At the very least I'd enjoy if my character would mention he slaughtered through a bunch of guards / templar / whatever doing their jobs. Being forced to kill Templar in the Anders side-mission or killing mages and then reaching the end and saying "We'll let you go!" and accept it without a whimper was annoying.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 mars 2013 - 03:14 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

If the player is not emotionally invested in the characters who die, Hawke's emotions don't matter one way or the other. It's like when Carver or Bethany is killed. Even though Hawke looks distressed, it's a wasted effort because there is no connection between the characters and the player. We literally knew them for like five minutes before they were killed.

If you're going to kill off a character in a game, it has to be a character that the player actually has spent time with and has become fond of. Showing the PC in mourning would actually be effective in that case.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 16 mars 2013 - 03:17 .

[TJPags]

Plaintiff wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

What if Hawke hated his family?  What if Hawke just isn't an emotional guy?

What if Hawke just doesn't want to show emotion in front of others?

At no point did I say players should be forced to make their characters express an emotion.

You didn't.

But clearly, the tone of this thread is that people want that.  And the whole "tone wheel" is starting to sound to me like an "emotion wheel".  And since we know BW hates a toggle, and has been limiting options in games lately (IMO) I want to make it clear that not everyone is interested in an emotional PC.

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

If the player is not emotionally invested in the characters who die, Hawke's emotions don't matter one way or the other. It's like when Carver or Bethany is killed. Even though Hawke looks distressed, it's a wasted effort because there is no connection between the characters and the player. We literally knew them for like five minutes before they were killed.

If you're going to kill off a character in a game, it has to be a character that the player actually has spent time with and has become fond of. Showing the PC in mourning would actually be effective in that case.

Jenkins, Wilson, Mhairi, Daveth, Jory, Duncan, Cailan.

[Xilizhra]

Jenkins, Wilson, Mhairi, Daveth, Jory, Duncan, Cailan.

I actually did grow fond of Mhairi and Cailan.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

If the player is not emotionally invested in the characters who die, Hawke's emotions don't matter one way or the other. It's like when Carver or Bethany is killed. Even though Hawke looks distressed, it's a wasted effort because there is no connection between the characters and the player. We literally knew them for like five minutes before they were killed.

If you're going to kill off a character in a game, it has to be a character that the player actually has spent time with and has become fond of. Showing the PC in mourning would actually be effective in that case.

Jenkins, Wilson, Mhairi, Daveth, Jory, Duncan, Cailan.

Yep. It's really stupid to kill off characters that don't matter to the player and try to make it all dramatic. The player just shrugs and moves on.

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Those scenes could have been powerful if Hawke was actually shown in Lothering with his or her family. The player never gets to know the Hawke family much at all, and when they start dying off I couldn't care less.

The thread is not about whether the player cares about the deaths of Hawke's family, it's about Hawke's ability to express emotion.

If the player is not emotionally invested in the characters who die, Hawke's emotions don't matter one way or the other. It's like when Carver or Bethany is killed. Even though Hawke looks distressed, it's a wasted effort because there is no connection between the characters and the player. We literally knew them for like five minutes before they were killed.

If you're going to kill off a character in a game, it has to be a character that the player actually has spent time with and has become fond of. Showing the PC in mourning would actually be effective in that case.

Jenkins, Wilson, Mhairi, Daveth, Jory, Duncan, Cailan.

Yep. It's really stupid to kill off characters that don't matter to the player and try to make it all dramatic. The player just shrugs and moves on.

The player doesn't have to care about any death, why are you assuming that this must be the case? Why do you think Bioware even wants you to care when Bethany or Carver die early on?

Character death occurs to serve a narrative purpose, not to tug on your heartstrings for no reason.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 16 mars 2013 - 03:43 .