205 réponses à ce sujet

[DHKany]

Trogdorx wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables should not be required for a weapon to be effective.

then the point of having consumables in the first place is?......

Absolutely none, in my opinion. They shouldn't be part of the game. Or at least, they should only be used up if you complete a round, either by losing or winning.

well they're part of the game whether you want them there or not. And they're there to be used hence "consumable"

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Using stupid ammo, will not watch video....

[Jedib2]

Using Ammo, and using a Geth Character (+Damage)

Can we have a comparison without?

Modifié par Jedib2, 16 mars 2013 - 03:02 .

[Stimpo]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Using stupid ammo, will not watch video....

ah yes, the UR stupid ammo, headshotting mooks made them lick the windows of Glacier.

[UnknownMercenary]

Removing the speed penalty would make it a more appealing choice for non-Geth weapons platforms.

If the Spitfire didn't have its speed penalty I might use it on the Destroyer more often, but I don't see it taking the spot permanently held by the Typhoon at the moment.

[robarcool]

Next balance changes: Typhoon nerfed to make Spitfire look not like spit.

[Trogdorx]

DHKany wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables should not be required for a weapon to be effective.

then the point of having consumables in the first place is?......

Absolutely none, in my opinion. They shouldn't be part of the game. Or at least, they should only be used up if you complete a round, either by losing or winning.

well they're part of the game whether you want them there or not. And they're there to be used hence "consumable"

That consumable sure did help me while I'm sitting there at the loading screen for 5 minutes only to then be kicked out of the game for inactivity before the level even loads. Yessir.

Anyway, you asked what the point of having them was, and if we're forced to have these stupid things, they should be an optional buff, not a requirement to make you effective.

If that was the case, what would you do if you ran out?

I still would like to know what difficulty was being played in the video.

[Trogdorx]

robarcool wrote...

Next balance changes: Typhoon nerfed to make Spitfire look not like spit.

Don't give them ideas!

[Stimpo]

Trogdorx wrote...


I still would like to know what difficulty was being played in the video.

It's geth gold, the vid starts at the mission screen, and you can usually tell pretty easily anyways based on what enemy types are available in the early waves.

edit: at least that's the second video

Modifié par Stimpo, 16 mars 2013 - 03:13 .

[Zjarcal]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Try it without AP Ammo vs. bosses.

You and this argument, lol.

Uchimura wrote...

Why does everyone take EM with it?

Yeah I don't see the point in EM either, the magazine is already huge, better use piercing mod and gain those last few bits of armor damage.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 16 mars 2013 - 03:24 .

[UnknownMercenary]

robarcool wrote...

Next balance changes: Typhoon nerfed to make Spitfire look not like spit.

This hurts me.

Trogdorx wrote...

That consumable sure did help me while
I'm sitting there at the loading screen for 5 minutes only to then be
kicked out of the game for inactivity before the level even loads.
Yessir.

Anyway, you asked what the point of having them was, and
if we're forced to have these stupid things, they should be an optional
buff, not a requirement to make you effective.

If that was the case, what would you do if you ran out?

I still would like to know what difficulty was being played in the video.

1.) If you get stuck at a loading screen, your consumables are not lost

2.) It's almost impossible to run out if you're buying packs regularly, unless you're trying to shortcut the ramp and jump straight into Gold/Platinum when you start playing. JEPs are overflowing with level 1 and 2 items, and level 3s and 4s drop like crazy from more expensive packs. They come so often, there's no point in hoarding them unless you're purposely gimping yourself and your team.

Modifié par UnknownMercenary, 16 mars 2013 - 03:28 .

[DHKany]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

1.) If you get stuck at a loading screen, your consumables are not lost

2.) It's almost impossible to run out if you're buying packs regularly, unless you're trying to shortcut the ramp and jump straight into Gold/Platinum when you start playing. JEPs are overflowing with level 1 and 2 items, and level 3s and 4s drop like crazy from more expensive packs. They come so often, there's no point in hoarding them unless you're purposely gimping yourself and your team.

thank you. Took the words right outta my erh... Finger tips I guess.

[BlackDahlia424]

Jack Crapper wrote...

10% bonus to Geth weapons isn't dismissable.

Especially since it's multiplicative. It's an unfair comparison. Put them both on the Destroyer and compare them. I bet the gap widens.

Modifié par BlackDahlia424, 16 mars 2013 - 03:34 .

[BridgeBurner]

If anything, the 10% geth weapon bonus could be used as an argument that the spitfire should be buffed by another 10%.

[I_pity_the_fool]

This argument that you should be able to take weapons/characters into gold without consumables is goddamn retarded. It's doubtless advanced by the same useless scrubs who are too cheap to stick a pistol rail amp I on their characters because they want to prove something or they're hoard their consumables or they're hoping that if they keep all their consumables at 255, then jumbo equipment packs will be forced to give them ultra rare weapons.

If you want to compare the performance of a typhoon and a spitfire, it's best to equip the best kinds of consumables on both. Maybe not level 4 ammo - that's probably scarce for people who haven't maxed their rares. But certainly, most players who use gel and use cobras will be buying enough JEPs to get plenty of level 2/3 amps/ammo, and comparing weapons with these equiped is probably the fairest way to compare

[DesioPL]

Can someone tell me one thing.

I don't have a Geth Spitfire right now, but i have N7 Typhoon on III LVL. Is good weapon for Geth Juggernaut?

[I_pity_the_fool]

Hey anno,

Does the typhoon's multiplier for protections happen after subtraction of the 50 point armor DR? And it's multiplicative with the ramp up modifier, yeah?

Also, the +75% vs shields/barriers that the spitfire has - that multiplies with the 10% geth weapon boost? Or is it added on?

[I_pity_the_fool]

DesioPL wrote...

Can someone tell me one thing.

I don't have a Geth Spitfire right now, but i have N7 Typhoon on III LVL. Is good weapon for Geth Juggernaut?

Yes.

I wouldn't say no to a typhoon buff. But people who say the brophoon is underpowered are just very silly.

[DesioPL]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

DesioPL wrote...

Can someone tell me one thing.

I don't have a Geth Spitfire right now, but i have N7 Typhoon on III LVL. Is good weapon for Geth Juggernaut?

Yes.

I wouldn't say no to a typhoon buff. But people who say the brophoon is underpowered are just very silly.

So then, weapons for Juggnernaut the best is Typhooon nad Spitfire. I see sometimes a people who carring the Cerberus Harrier, but i don't think Harrier is good for Juggernaut. Well bonus for ammo is good indeed, but my personal feelings is for N7 Typhoon and Geth Spitfire.

[peddroelm]

should redo the typhoon video under the same conditions and then compare with previous Typhoon test result (time to kill atlas) .. Congratulations - you have just proved beyond doubt that Typhoon X is BETTER than Typhoon X (no typo) ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 16 mars 2013 - 11:49 .

[Grunt_Platform]

DesioPL wrote...

So then, weapons for Juggnernaut the best is Typhooon nad Spitfire. I see sometimes a people who carring the Cerberus Harrier, but i don't think Harrier is good for Juggernaut. Well bonus for ammo is good indeed, but my personal feelings is for N7 Typhoon and Geth Spitfire.

It really depends on the build and what you're using it for, but the typhoon and spitfire are only the "best" options for certain approaches.

The Particle Rifle and Lancer are strong competitors too, as the infinite ammo and accuracy are nice on a kit that has trouble making regular trips to ammo boxes. If you want to go for melee damage, the Crusader and the Graal are also solid choices, since both can fit a Shotgun Omni-Blade, and have enough innate accuracy and power that they can cover ranged threats for you.

Really, the Juggernaut's not too specialized with any particular guns, so the best gun for it has a lot more to do with what's in your manifest and how you're planning to use it. There are much better weapons platforms than the Juggernaut too, and those kits will generally do better with the Typhoon and Spitfire than the Jugg can.


Back on point a bit more... I actually don't like the Spitfire much on the Juggernaut. The gun already has a huge ammo supply and low recoil, so the Jugg isn't helping it there. It's also heavy enough to interfere with regular usage of Siege Pulse and Hex Shield, which you need to be casting pretty often if you want to do more than just heavy melee everything. And well. It's just not that good a gun for a melee build either. It could be fun to try, since the Juggernaut can get away with using it, but I don't think it works quite as well as some of the other weapons I've mentioned. Works a lot better on the likes of the Trooper.

..It's kind of a shame that the one kit that doesn't suffer the Spitfire's reduced speed has other issues with the gun.

Modifié par EvanKester, 16 mars 2013 - 12:03 .

[billy the squid]

The Spitfire isn't bad, looking at the numbers, until you realise the practical implications of the movement speed and weight penalties, render it a lacklustre weapon, because of those drawbacks. As it is now I really don't like the crippling penalty it puts on movement and weight. For what it does, it's not worth it. The Typhoon, PPR and Lancer fills the gap better, with fewer drawbacks.

If those aren't going to be removed then a further 10% damage buff, or a RoF increase up to 700+ maybe, as an alternative, Eric already said the RoF was 650 rpm, would be make it more worthwhile. Given that you don't want to be over exposed, particularly given the slowed movement speed. It's taking a bit too long to do damage at the moment.

As to the consumables, it's going to depend on the mods I use. HVB and EM I'm going to go with Incendiary or Warp III / IV on Gold and Platinum If I have EB and Pierce I'll go with AP III / IV or Drill III if I'm being cheap and saving them for a Platinum run.

[Vlark]

Give me both on X already! Got a Typhoon V and it kicks ass , Spitfire I is...bad. Seems that at X i could use it...maybe.

[BridgeBurner]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Hey anno,

Does the typhoon's multiplier for protections happen after subtraction of the 50 point armor DR? And it's multiplicative with the ramp up modifier, yeah?

Also, the +75% vs shields/barriers that the spitfire has - that multiplies with the 10% geth weapon boost? Or is it added on?

Yes, all multiplicative bonuses (bar racial bonuses to weapons) are applied last, the typhoon's 50 point DR becomes 75.

Geth Weapon damage bonus directly modifies the base damage of the weapon by 10%, giving you +7.78 base damage, meaning the spitfire is hitting for 85.58 base damage on a geth trooper; and this is modified by additive bonuses then multiplicative bonuses as expected.

I reckon they should give it another 10% buff. Nothing drastic like 30% like some people have suggested... because that would give it a damage output greater than the pre-nerf typhoon....

The fact of the matter is, if you build both the typhoon and the spitfire for "optimal" DPS (mag, barrel and AP IV; gives the most damage for both) then the typhoon isn't that much better than the spitfire versus armour.

That being said however, the movement speed penalty is too much of a drawback at the moment, and the clip size (ammo capacity really doesn't matter and should NEVER be used to balance a weapon) is great but admittedly can feel lackluster by comparison to armour.

I think another 10% damage buff would do the gun a lot of good; and the higher base damage actually improves armour damage significantly, as any ammo power you are using has it's damage calculated off base damage, so a 85.58 damage spitfire shot is doing more ammo power damage than a 83.25 typhoon hot shot.

Modifié par Annomander, 16 mars 2013 - 11:59 .