205 réponses à ce sujet

[peddroelm]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Hey anno,

Does the typhoon's multiplier for protections happen after subtraction of the 50 point armor DR? And it's multiplicative with the ramp up modifier, yeah?

Also, the +75% vs shields/barriers that the spitfire has - that multiplies with the 10% geth weapon boost? Or is it added on?

yes on all questions 

[UnknownMercenary]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Hey anno,

Does the typhoon's multiplier for protections happen after subtraction of the 50 point armor DR? And it's multiplicative with the ramp up modifier, yeah?

Also, the +75% vs shields/barriers that the spitfire has - that multiplies with the 10% geth weapon boost? Or is it added on?

yes to the Typhoon bit, which is why some form of armor piercing is important even though it already has an AP multiplier.

[I_pity_the_fool]

..It's kind of a shame that the one kit that doesn't suffer the Spitfire's reduced speed has other issues with the gun.

There's generally a 35% movement speed penalty for using the spitfire.

But several kits can move at regular speed with the spitfire equiped - the juggernaut and the krogan (except the krogan sentinel) move with no penalty at all. Turians, Batarians and destroyers move 25% slower.

I've PMed Fagnan about the krogan sentinel. No reply, but I'm optimistic that can be fixed.

[I_pity_the_fool]

old school krogan sentinel. should have said.

[UltimateBogi]

IMO weapon testing should be performed without any amps, mods etc. on HM/BF3 Soldier. Why? To check pure damage.

[Ledgend1221]

UltimateBogi wrote...

IMO weapon testing should be performed without any amps, mods etc. on HM/BF3 Soldier. Why? To check pure damage.

I agree.
A weapon should not need consumables to make it useable.

[BridgeBurner]

Not using consumables and mods on your gun.... would be like speccing only 42 out of 84 skill points...

It's not a very intelligent idea.... actually, it's just plain stupid.

Typhoon X versus Spitfire X with the exact same consumables shows that the spitfire - when set up for optimal DPS - is only slightly worse than the typhoon versus armour. The spitfire should probably get another 10% buff.

Plus, if I'd gone piercing mod instead of mag, I would have shortened the time the spitfire took to kill the atlas... a luxury the typhoon cannot afford as dropping EM makes it impossible to 1-clip an atlas.



Mag
Barrel
AP IV

is the optimal DPS set up for any AR. If you're not using that, you can't complain when the AR feels sucky... If you don't build your weapons properly, that's your fault, not the weapon's fault.

Modifié par Annomander, 16 mars 2013 - 12:41 .

[I_pity_the_fool]

Also it should be checked without weapon mods. extended barrel is a form of cheating imo.

like reload cancelling

[peddroelm]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

UltimateBogi wrote...

IMO weapon testing should be performed without any amps, mods etc. on HM/BF3 Soldier. Why? To check pure damage.

I agree.
A weapon should not need consumables to make it useable.

 

That would provide false image for weapons with special mechanics such as CSMG or Typhoon ..Testing those weapons RAW DPS vs armor DR would provide abysmal results .. (and cause of many unjustified BIOWER PLZ BUFF THREADS )

Another case would be testing low damage per bullet auto weapons vs armor ... All such weapons would do 5 damage per hit vs gold armor  hardly a worthwhile comparison... 

In conclusion - No - your suggestion is nor fair nor practical ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 16 mars 2013 - 12:41 .

[BridgeBurner]

peddroelmz wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

UltimateBogi wrote...

IMO weapon testing should be performed without any amps, mods etc. on HM/BF3 Soldier. Why? To check pure damage.

I agree.
A weapon should not need consumables to make it useable.

 

That would provide false image for weapons with special mechanics such as CSMG or Typhoon ..Testing those weapons RAW DPS vs armor DR would provide abysmal results .. (and cause of many unjustified BIOWER PLZ BUFF THREADS )

Another case would be testing low damage per bullet auto weapons vs armor ... All such weapons would do 5 damage per hit vs gold armor  hardly a worthwhile comparison... 

In conclusion - No - your suggestion is nor fair nor practical ...

Peddro, how are additive bonuses applied to the typhoon?

I know the cool shots work off of 55.5 @ X, meaning you get  55 * 1 (1 + sum of additive bonusess)

But do the hot shots work off 83.25 * 1 (1 + sum of additive bonuses)

Or is it...

(55 * 1 (1+ sum of additive bonuses)) + 27.75 < ramp up

What I'm asking is, are the hot shots calculated off 83.25 as the "base" damage, or are the hot shots calculated off 55.5 with the 27.75 ramp up as an additional additive bonus?

Modifié par Annomander, 16 mars 2013 - 12:45 .

[peddroelm]

Annomander wrote...

Peddro, how are additive bonuses applied to the typhoon?

chew on this has numeric examples of typhoon damage per bullet calculation ... (charged and uncharged , vs shield and armor)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 16 mars 2013 - 12:51 .

[BridgeBurner]

Forgive my stupidity, but...

Peddro wrote...
44.4 * 1.5 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.275 + 0.1) * 1.5 = 192.3075

The underlined part modifies base damage, and thus the ammo power damage.

Therefore, are the additive bonuses calculated off the "base damage" of 55.5 at X, or are they calculated off the "modified" hot-shot damage (after ramp up) of 83.25.

"sum of additive bonuses" * 55.5 is a lot less damage than "sum of additive bonuses" * 83.25

I'm not very good at maths peddro, I can understand your formula but I don't know which bits are calculated first.

Modifié par Annomander, 16 mars 2013 - 12:59 .

[peddroelm]

Annomander wrote...

Forgive my stupidity, but...

Peddro wrote...
44.4 * 1.5 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.275 + 0.1) * 1.5 = 192.3075

The underlined part modifies base damage, and thus the ammo power damage.

Therefore, are the additive bonuses calculated off the "base damage" of 55.5 at X, or are they calculated off the "modified" hot-shot damage (after ramp up) of 83.25.

"sum of additive bonuses" * 55.5 is a lot less damage than "sum of additive bonuses" * 83.25

I'm not very good at maths peddro, I can understand your formula but I don't know which bits are calculated first.

(44.4 * 1.5) is the base damage for charged shots ..Ammo damage for charged shots will be calculated as % of it too ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 16 mars 2013 - 01:03 .

[BridgeBurner]

peddroelmz wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Forgive my stupidity, but...

Peddro wrote...
44.4 * 1.5 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.275 + 0.1) * 1.5 = 192.3075

The underlined part modifies base damage, and thus the ammo power damage.

Therefore, are the additive bonuses calculated off the "base damage" of 55.5 at X, or are they calculated off the "modified" hot-shot damage (after ramp up) of 83.25.

"sum of additive bonuses" * 55.5 is a lot less damage than "sum of additive bonuses" * 83.25

I'm not very good at maths peddro, I can understand your formula but I don't know which bits are calculated first.

(44.4 * 1.5) is the base damage for charged shots ..Ammo damage for charged shots will be calculated as % of it too ...

So it would be 83.25 as the "base damage" for the additive bonuses too?

[peddroelm]

Annomander wrote...
So it would be 83.25 as the "base damage" for the additive bonuses too?

 
obviously

[BridgeBurner]

peddroelmz wrote...

Annomander wrote...
So it would be 83.25 as the "base damage" for the additive bonuses too?

 
obviously

Thanks man, I'm pretty bad at the whole maths / formula stuff.

[RecoonHoodie]

Buff its ROF to 700 and we have pre-nerf typhoon. Bioware pls

[BridgeBurner]

10% damage is better than 10% RoF.

Ff they buff weapons, buffing it by 10% damage instead of buffing it's RoF is better. Higher RoF is more damage lost to armour, and RoF only is effected by classes with RoF boosts.

Buffing it's damage by 10% gives more ammo power damage, better scaling with additive bonuses, etc.

Damage buffs are the way to go instead of RoF.

[WaffleCrab]

you should do the comparison video on a class that gets no racial weapon bonuses, such as destroyer or a krogan/turian soldier.

[stysiaq]

I think that Geth Spitfire damage should make up for that idiotic speed reduction.

I can't express how I hate that mechanic which makes the gun unusable on half of the maps.

[Feneckus]

I tried it on the Juggernaut with better consumables and it wasn't anywhere near that good. WTF ?

[BridgeBurner]

stysiaq wrote...

I think that Geth Spitfire damage should make up for that idiotic speed reduction.

I can't express how I hate that mechanic which makes the gun unusable on half of the maps.

Not unusable, just impractical.

I hope they buff it again, 10% would do the trick.

Feneckus wrote...

I tried it on the Juggernaut with better consumables and it wasn't anywhere near that good. WTF ?

The trooper can make the gun work... now all we need is another 10% damage and it'll be worthy of picking (at least on the trooper) over the typhoon.

Modifié par Annomander, 16 mars 2013 - 02:32 .

[stysiaq]

Feneckus wrote...

I tried it on the Juggernaut with better consumables and it wasn't anywhere near that good. WTF ?

HM.

[I_pity_the_fool]

How does the mathematics actually work out for the comparison? My estimates: with this geth soldier (+7.5% hunter mode, 10% racial geth weapons, 22.5% passive, 15% gear, 20% rail amp, AP IV) each weapon puts out the following damage per bullet:

Typhoon X

55.5 base * 1.5 ramp up * (1 + 0.075 + 0.225 + 0.15 + 0.2) = 137.36 damage to health.
Ammo does 55.5 * 1.5 * 0.5 = 41.62
or 178.98 to health

Should do 137.36 * 1.5 = 206.04 damage to shields and barriers

Armor: should do:
41.62 from ammo power
(55.5 base * 1.5 ramp up * (1 + 0.075 + 0.225 + 0.15 + 0.2) * 1.5 for protections) minus (75 * (1 - 0.9) or 7.5) damage to armor.
41.62 + 198.54 = 240.16

health: 178.98
shields/barriers: 206.04
armor: 240.16

Spitfire X

77.8 base * (1 + 0.075 + 0.225 + 0.15 + 0.2) * 1.1 = 141.2 damage to health.
ammo should do 77.8 * 1.1 * 0.5 = 42.8 damage
or 184 damage to health

Should do 141.2 * 1.75 = 247.1 damage to shields and barriers.

Armor: should do 141.2 - 5 or 136.2
42.8 from ammo power
179 in total

health 184 (2% more than the typhoon)
shields/barriers 247.1 (19% more than typhoon)
armor 179 (25.5% less than typhoon)

Other considerations

Most bosses have more armor than shields and barriers (favours typhoon)

spitfire has more ammo and a larger clip, and also seems to be slightly more accurate (although it has annoying 'bouncy' recoil)

spitfire has a ramp up mechanism as well (takes 0.75 seconds. applies to rate of fire rather than damage).

Please correct any errors you notice