205 réponses à ce sujet

[RoundedPlanet88]

DHKany wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

I am not phased by your witty humor... no matter how much you try to drill it into my head.

guddam double whammy. 

(: cookie for you mega. 

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
 DENIAL!!!
Also, (:.) for you mega.

[Silvair]

DHKany wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables should not be required for a weapon to be effective.

then the point of having consumables in the first place is?......

To have an additional advantage.

It's an extra, optional addon.  It comes after the fact.

If a gun isn't good without consumables, then a gun isn't good.  If it's good with consumables, then all that means is that the CONSUMABLE was good.

[BridgeBurner]

WTF HAVE YOU GUYS DONE TO MY THREAD!?!

This thread was all about legit discussion... now look what you've done to it....

[RoundedPlanet88]

Annomander wrote...

WTF HAVE YOU GUYS DONE TO MY THREAD!?!

This thread was all about legit discussion... now look what you've done to it....

*points at Silvair* HE DID  IT!!!!
OT, just to be polite, have you tried comparing the spitfire to say the tempest? or the wraith? or the claymore?

[DHKany]

Annomander wrote...

WTF HAVE YOU GUYS DONE TO MY THREAD!?!

This thread was all about legit discussion... now look what you've done to it....

I regret nothing 



but to be fair, I was legit for a while. 

[RoundedPlanet88]

Bump for actual OP. Anno? still no answer to comparisons outside of the AR class.

[january42]

Annomander wrote...

WTF HAVE YOU GUYS DONE TO MY THREAD!?!

This thread was all about legit discussion... now look what you've done to it....

Yeah, the consumables thing doesn't matter.

I will say that is one advantage of the spitire. The clip is huge enough that you don't really need the extended mag.  I tried both on a HSol and the base spitfire clip is large enough I could reload with just AR, barrel+pierce for mods. Still felt weak however.  And yeah, the movement penatly sucks.   You do kinda need the extended mag on the typhoon however.

Honestly, the real issue is that the PPR is better than both the Typoon and Spitfire, and even more so for the Juggernaut. The Typhoon needs a 1.75 multiplier at least.  Spitfire is the GPR of UR AR's.

[Stinja]

TYPHOON IS MUCH BETTER ON VOLUS ADEPT!

[RoundedPlanet88]

january42 wrote...

Yeah, the consumables thing doesn't matter.

I will say that is one advantage of the spitire. The clip is huge enough that you don't really need the extended mag.  I tried both on a HSol and the base spitfire clip is large enough I could reload with just AR, barrel+pierce for mods. Still felt weak however.  And yeah, the movement penatly sucks.   You do kinda need the extended mag on the typhoon however.

Honestly, the real issue is that the PPR is better than both the Typoon and Spitfire, and even more so for the Juggernaut. The Typhoon needs a 1.75 multiplier at least.  Spitfire is the GPR of UR AR's.

Actually, there are some kits that I would take the typhoon on over the PPR, destroyer notably, But that`s cause I run missle-less. turian soldier maybe, and possibly QMS. GS for sure, GI for that matter, Although there I`m more likely to go BW or Jav. I would take PPR on jug though.

[UnknownMercenary]

ok because no one else will do it I sacrificed 3 precious AR rail 3s to do a comparison with AP ammo IV

I'll have it posted shortly

[RoundedPlanet88]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

ok because no one else will do it I sacrificed 3 precious AR rail 3s to do a comparison with AP ammo IV

I'll have it posted shortly

Nice.

[Uchimura]

Mortiel wrote...

I tend to concur here...

I remember when people used to say 'agree'. Those were crazy times.

[january42]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Actually, there are some kits that I would take the typhoon on over the PPR, destroyer notably, But that`s cause I run missle-less. turian soldier maybe, and possibly QMS. GS for sure, GI for that matter, Although there I`m more likely to go BW or Jav. I would take PPR on jug though.

I actually like PPR better on anything with a damage boost. You could make a case for the typhoon over it for the marksman builds, due to the irritating way marksman works(you have to trigger it before you start firing or the ROF boost doesn't work). With a PPR your basicly wasting more ammo before the ramp up.  Marksman is really the only situation where I find the Typhoon better than the PPR however.


I will say that, even with Marksman, the base Spitfire clip is big enough that you don't need the extended mag. The giant ammo capacity is really all the gun has going for it. And the speed reduction counters that advantage to a degree(since it's harder to get to an ammo box).

[UnknownMercenary]

Typhoon X vs Spitfire X with AP ammo IV on a Destroyer

[BridgeBurner]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Typhoon X vs Spitfire X with AP ammo IV on a Destroyer

Nice work merc.

Looks like the spitfire could use another 10% without making it OP.

I still can't wrap my head around this gun.

Make a gun, with loads of spare ammo, and a really big clip.... then penalise people for wielding it and even more heavlily penalise them for firing it....

So the extra clip size is rendered almost completely useless unless the enemies keep respawning within LoS.

I know they designed it with the juggernaut in mind, much like the typhoon was designed with the destroyer in mind, but I can't help but think the implementation of these weapons even after a year of them making MP related stuff was severely lacking...

Modifié par Annomander, 17 mars 2013 - 12:06 .

[Jedib2]

Would it be possible for someone to run a test without AP Ammo? Put it up on youtube?

[UnknownMercenary]

I see two options going forward:

1.) Buff the damage, as you have suggested. It does not need a huge boost, since it's already competitive with the Typhoon, but...

2.) They can also change the movement speed penalty. I don't think it is likely they will remove it outright, but something like the Revenant's penalty would've made more sense for the Spitfire. Allow players to move at all full speed while carrying it, but make the movement penalty kick in once the gun starts firing.

I feel like the second option would be better. The gun would still be the most optimal on Geth kicks because of the Geth weapon bonus and Hunter Mode, while allowing use on a wider variety of weapons focused characters. This would open up the armor mod slot as well instead of making Adrenaline Module III mandatory.

[UnknownMercenary]

Jedib2 wrote...

Would it be possible for someone to run a test without AP Ammo? Put it up on youtube?

UnknownMercenary wrote...

I was going to make a video of no mods/consumables versus a platinum Atlas with 0 points in a character but then I got bored/annoyed 30 seconds into wave 1 and figured, why should I indulge such complete morons

Modifié par UnknownMercenary, 17 mars 2013 - 12:09 .

[Stinja]

Nice one UnknownMerc ^^^

I do think 1.x seconds isn't a huge difference. So is the intent that's made up by firstly sticking it on a geth (with bonus), and ammo?
Admittedly my Spitfire is only II, while Typhoon is X, but the typhoon feels much better on less traditional kits (aforementioned voldept for example), just from the mobility side.

Both are still worse than the PPR though, for my play style, I just prefer accuracy and infinite ammo.

[Asebstos]

Silvair wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables should not be required for a weapon to be effective.

then the point of having consumables in the first place is?......

To have an additional advantage.

It's an extra, optional addon.  It comes after the fact.

If a gun isn't good without consumables, then a gun isn't good.  If it's good with consumables, then all that means is that the CONSUMABLE was good.

Its likely the intention of the devs that people always use consumables on Gold/Plat. They can't not account for them when every players has dozens to hundreds of consumables.

[megabeast37215]

I just got done using the flamerless Trooper... Using AP IV + EB + PM vs Gold Cerberus and it beat ass. Even got my 20 headshots... 190k store. I was pretty impressed... Movement speed penalty was an annoyance but ultimately only mattered vs charging Phantoms. Lolgoons got shredded...

Also... my cookies were delicious... thanks!!

Modifié par megabeast37215, 17 mars 2013 - 12:29 .

[BridgeBurner]

A while back, Derek Hollan posted a little about the various difficulties.

I can't find the thread, but I copied what he wrote into a word document, as I found it pretty interesting.

He said (paraphrasing slightly):


Bronze:
-Balanced around players using common weapons and with no / low level consumables.
-Bronze should provide a challenge for casual and new / inexperienced players, without being overly punishing.
-Bronze is designed for low level characters, to give a place for new people to level their characters.


Silver:
-Balanced around players using uncommon weapons and low level consumables.
-Silver pushes players more than bronze, and will be more suited to players who have a few games and manifest upgrades under their belts.
-Silver is designed for mid level characters, but not overly punishing for low level characters.


Gold:
-Balanced around players using rare weapons and high level consumables
-Gold is balanced around high level / level 20 characters and NOT for low level characters
-Gold is much more challenging than silver, with higher spawn budgets, more difficult wave compositions
-Gold is for experienced players with decent manifests


Platinum:
-Balanced around players using the very best available weapons, builds, kits and consumables.
-Significantly more challenging than Gold, and not to be attempted without first being familiar with gold level gameplay
-Platinum is desiged to severely punish players for making mistakes



The gold / platinum part is really the only part we're interested in here. A bioware employee stated that Gold is balanced around the use of consumables, ergo; using a weapon sans le consumables, naked in other words - was not part of Bioware's plan when they designed the higher difficulties.

Modifié par Annomander, 17 mars 2013 - 12:41 .

[megabeast37215]

Now the thread is complete... All it needed was a moronic Silvair cameo...

[BridgeBurner]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Now the thread is complete... All it needed was a moronic Silvair cameo...

Haha, so true.