267 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

Fail. Tried to paper over yawning chasm.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Pass.

Especially because BioWare genuinely tried to fix the horrible endings, rather than to replace the horrible endings with an even more horrible ending, as some misguided fans suggested (and still hope for, even to this very day).

[BansheeOwnage]

N7 Banshee Bait wrote...

You're crazy if you think I'm going to read all that crap.

The game is over a year old, nobody cares anymore, go outside & get a life!

Is your name supposed to be oddly fitting?

[BansheeOwnage]

I updated the OP with an appropriate poll. No, I won't have a "maybe" or "both" option, sorry.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

A pass? All they ****ing added was some animation and a few extra lines with 2 or something cutscenes.

Mediocre, but definitely not a pass. A slight fail, didn't win the majority of the fans over. But still, I must give Bioware respect for at least doing the EC.

[Ieldra]

It's not without its flaws, but the EC saved the trilogy for me, so it's definitely a pass. It showed about 80% of what I thought it should show, gave me an epilogue showing outcomes I liked and confirmed much of what I had predicted. I really like it.

[Moofy76]

k.lalh wrote...
Pass. C+
It's a story. BioWare made a story. If you didn't like their story, that's not a fault of BioWare. If they gave you a Disney ending to the games, how cheesy would that be. It's an M rated game with some of the most mature themes that I would never have expected to find in a video game.
If you don't like it that much, that you find it self-fulfilling to rant about it, by all means go for it. People agree with you.
But keep in mind, they have the right to take the story where they want, and if you didn't like it, writing a thousand word essay isn't going to do anything, especially when BW already added to the ending by giving out a free DLC.
A FREE DLC.
From a company owned by EA.
Think about that for a bit.
Bioware did a lot for the fans that complained, and they gave us Citadel and Leviathan which helped to answer many of our requests and address a lot of our concerns.
Now the endings.
People complain left, right, and centre, how many plot holes there are in the endings. I call baloney. There are plot holes in every game. The reason why people b*tch and complain, is that it wasn't what they wanted and they looked hard to justify the reasons for their feelings.
If I did the same every time something crappy happens in my life and I didn't get what I wanted, I would be a horrible person to be around.
The endings had mediocre writing at best. A MacGuffin and a Deus Ex Machina wooo. But come on...how pretentious can you get. They ended the games, and closed Shepard's story arc. That's what their purpose was. But keep in mind. EA's fiscal year ends at the end of March. ME3 was rushed to please the stock holders and spruce up their coffers. 

BW fixed it with the EC + DLC, and cleaned up a lot of that crap we complained about. 

Is it still lacking? Yeah ofc.

Is it good enough? For a game I paid ~$20 for and got over 150h worth of game play? Yep.

This.. Also even though I skimmed through the OP. I disagree with a lot of it and the rest can be filled in with a little imagination or doesn't really need addressing, some things could've done with a better explanation though. I didn't like the endings initially but after I thought about it for a little bit I thought the choices are pretty good. Better than your usual vanilla stock standard boring hero ending. 
Also, it's a computer game. 

Modifié par Moofy76, 16 mars 2013 - 08:36 .

[SiriusXI]

Anything is better than the original endings. But EC did not pass.

Original endings were simply broken: below F- ... like... you can't even grade it.
EC was not broken anymore, but failed hard: F-

Modifié par SiriusXI, 16 mars 2013 - 08:36 .

[SiriusXI]

Moofy76 wrote...

Is it good enough? For a game I paid ~$20 for and got over 150h worth of game play? Yep.

Hmm I preordered and payed 80 bucks for it. Definetely not doing that **** again!

EDIT: I also finished ME3 in 35 hours on insanity, doing all "sidequests" (if you can call it that way). So... 150h? yeah...

Modifié par SiriusXI, 16 mars 2013 - 08:39 .

[Random Geth]

It still baffles me how many people were taken in by the EC. Must be nice to be so easily impressed.

[BleedingUranium]

Well said OP! I agree on all points!

[CaIIisto]

Fail.

More bad ending on top of an existing bad ending = bad ending.

It's only redeeming quality is that it's marginally better than the original take on the endings.

[Ieldra]

Random Geth wrote...
It still baffles me how many people were taken in by the EC. Must be nice to be so easily impressed.

It may appear incomprehensible to you, but for many people, the EC was exactly what they wanted. I wanted the dark age retconned and Synthesis to be shown as having a good outcome. I got that. I also wanted more and better exposition. I may not be 100% fine with the result, but I got that, too. 

The remaining issues were not so important for me. 

[Zaalbar]

If your gonna try and make sence of these endings from a literal stand point then you will fail everytime. The simple truth is, they don`t make the slightest bit of sence unless you examine them from a symbolic perspective.

These Endings were written in a universe where 2+2=3.

[tevix]

That was good read, actually. Made me think about a few things. A couple points:

I think the crucible only targets all synthetics in destroy because the catalyst doesn't want any synthetics left around. Though he says they'll come back anyway. Why he offers destroy at all is a complete and utter mystery.

If he lets you destroy the reapers, but leave the possibility to create new synthetics around...why not just let us blow the things up conventionally?

The presence of destroy is a giant multi-way self contradiction. -1

Control is a nice ending. It changes based on your paragade status and is distinct enough yet leaves the super high end conciousness philosophical questioning up to the player. +1

Synthesis makes for a nice "What if everyone got along" scenario but ultimately suggests complete and utter submission to the reapers...AKA indoctrination. The catalyst has achieved his goal. Organics and synthetics are now one. The catalyst cares not whether they still have their own minds. There is no more "chaos". IMO this is a deceptive ending that is more straightforward than it seems. I'm gonna give it a +1.

Refuse strikes me (and I try to give them the benefit of the doubt) as a giant FU from bioware. It's shallow, doesn't count as successfully completing the game, and leaves more questions than the original ending did. It's a great idea on paper, executed in the worst possible way. -1

The whole citadel bit is still a giant incoherant, undecipherable enigma (Read: Clusterf---). Is anderson really there, is TIM, what is the purpose of either one of them if one or both of them is not there? Why do you bleed where you shot anderson? Why does the catalyst take on the form of something that it obviously is not, making it entirely untrustworthy, but still with it wanting your trust? Are you really even ON the citadel, and where EXACTLY are you? This goes entirely unadressed in the EC. -3

Harbinger. Why does he not kill you? Why does he not shoot the normandy? Why does he never pay attention to you until you'r nearly at the beam? It can't be concern for protecting it, because he wastes time shooting down harmless gunships just flying around providing empty "cover fire". Why when he finally shoots at you does he not vaporize you? The whole beam run is another undecipherable enigma. That's without even going into what happens after you get "shot". The arguments for these things goes all differant ways, and there's no way to be sure.

IN ADDITION the EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS even if it's just a nameless reaper. You could argue harbingers interest in shepard but this doesn't apply if harbinger is not in play. -2

The breath scene...-1

That's a phenominal score of 10%.

That's a resounding F.

[tevix]

**Edit**

Excuse me, that's 20%.

Still an F.

[zyntifox]

The EC did some good and some bad in my opinion. The speech at the end by EDI, Shepard and Hacket is good. The evacuation scene is bad. Don't get me wrong, cinematically it is very, very good. But calling down the Normandy to evacuate two squadmembers when you are making the final push to save the galaxy feels ridiculous. Especially when soldiers are dying left and right as you run towards the beam.

I understand they wanted to plug the plothole of how the squadmates got onto the Normandy but there are a lot better ways to do it. For example, have them getting injured when you take down the destroyer prior to the push for the beam. Leave them there, have your emotionally goodbyes, and call in a shuttle, not the Normandy, to extract them while Shepard and Andersson pushes for the beam.

But the main problem with the endings, in my opinion, is something that Bioware made clear prior to releasing the EC that they were not going to adress since they do not percieve it as an issue. And that is the thematically inconsistency of the endings.

The way i would have gone about to "fix" the ending, besides the proposed "fix" for the extraction is:

- Shepard and Andersson has the confrontation with the illusive man. After they defeat him they sit, just as in the original ending, and watches the arms of the citadel open and the docking of the crucible while they have that great conversation. After the crucible docks they sit and watches as the crucible starts charging and the following happens depending on the acquired EMS, from "worst" to "best":

1. While the crucible is charging the Reapers destroys the crucible due to not having a sufficient large fleet to cover it. Queue the cinematic showing the Reapers succesfully destroying the fleet and harvest various worlds.

2. The Fleet succesfully defends the crucible but  Shepard has not acquired enough technology in building the crucible.Therefore it only disables the Reapers barriers and while the fleet was large enough to defend the crucible it gets destroyed by the Reapers. But they take a lot of reapers down with them. Queue cinematic showing the Reapers harvesting various worlds.

3. The same as number two but the fleet is large enough to beat the reapers without their barriers. However, given the lenghty battle that is required to beat them Shepard bleeds out.

4. The crucible destroys all the Reapers. A medical team finds Shepard before he/she bleeds out.

I would have liked something such as this. And it would have been even more interesting if from the beginning of the game we had to types of "EMS". One called TS which is the technological strength which shows the value of the assets working on building the crucible and in the end decides what kind of energy the crucible emits. And one called MS which is the military strenght which shows the value of the assets defending the crucible and battling the reapers post crucible activation.

Would it be perfect? Absolutely not, there is a reason why i work as a statistician and not a game developer but i would have been a lot more satisfied with the ending. And then it would at least feel like the decisions you make throughout the series, which would affect the TS and MS differently in the third one, decides the ending and not whether you decide to shoot the tube, jump into the beam or grab the two sticks in the final minutes of the game.

[tevix]

@Cstaf

I like your idea of an ending, but there's one thing we have to remember.

BW needed to create a difficult choice at the end of the game, as was the case with the last two. That choice was spearheaded by hudson and written by walters, all without team input.

It was a choice for the sake of choice, rather than a choice resulting from the story told so far.

[elitecom]

Of course the Extended Cut is a failure, it was just more of the same, more of that horrendous ending. In a way it shouldn't have been all that surprising that the Extended Cut ended up as it did. If Bioware really changed the endings or changed the game, that would be the same as Bioware admitting that they messed up. They would loose face, a lot of face. Bioware and EA would never want to loose that so they gave us the Extended Cut.

[BD Manchild]

A great post. It's clear you've given the matter a lot of thought.

For me, the EC is a fail. It ties up a couple of minor plotholes, but blows open whole new ones and does nothing to address the fundamental problems that have existed at the rotten core of the endings since Day One. If anything, I'd say the slides make them even worse, with extremely cack-handed attempts at glossing over and painting a happy face on what are really rather dreadful options.

Basically, Bioware tried to patch up a bullet wound with a sticking plaster, and just left the endings to bleed to death.

[tevix]

@Elitecom

By sticking their heads in the sand and saying "Nope! It's great! Everyone loves it! Those woh don't are just a minority. Endings great, though! Fantastic artistic vision!"

They save as much face as the guy who opens the ark of the covenant....

[Patchwork]

It passes, barely. The consequences of each ending are expanded upon, they offer a both hope and "carry the seeds of their own destruction."

But I can't think of the EC without cringing over the Normandy rescue scene.

[Stalker]

The EC really just tried to sell the original ending better and thous failed for me.

There is still that stupid starchild, countless plot-holes, next to no choice outcome and no recognizable conclusion. All of that remained the same and is even worse of a chore to play because it's explaining the same **** in a longer timespan.

It's now just all wrapped in a little more positive and dramatic feeling with the overly dramatic goodbyes and rather meaningless pictures of people standing around or smiling at the camera. 

That may have worked for some who thought the ending had not enough emotion or simply accept being blinded by it all, but that was not my concern. I hated the ending for it's theme-breaking nonsense and that is still there.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 16 mars 2013 - 12:28 .

[wright1978]

Mr Massakka wrote...

The EC really just tried to sell the original ending better and thous failed for me.

There is still that stupid starchild, countless plot-holes, next to no choice outcome and no recognizable conclusion. All of that remained the same and is even worse of a chore to play because it's explaining the same **** in a longer timespan.

It's now just all wrapped in a little more positive and dramatic feeling with the overly dramatic goodbyes and rather meaningless pictures of people standing around or smiling at the camera. 

That may have worked for some who thought the ending had not enough emotion or simply accept being blinded by it all, but that was not my concern. I hated the ending for it's theme-breaking nonsense and that is still there.

Yep

[nrobbiec]

Pass. With flying colours.