94 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

You'd think they would get sick and tired of wandering around doing nothing or cleaning some noble's house everyday, or worse --- living in a disgusting alienage. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think they're a pretty pathetic lot myself. You'd think they would be trying to form some kind of alliance of unity amongst the dalish tribes and attack the human oppressors. But no, they just don't do anything to help themselves.

You don't see the dwarves backing down. They're still fighting the darkspawn and anyone else who gets in their way, and their race is even less varied than the elves. Could you imagine a human king telling a dwarven king that he's going to enslave his people if he doesn't comply? The dwarven response would be an axe to the head. The elves would bend knee right then and there and offer to shine the king's boots.

In Dragon Age 3, I really want to see them actually do something to help themselves.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 16 mars 2013 - 03:10 .

[Xilizhra]

The dwarves still have a homeland and intact culture to fight for; the elves don't, really. The Dalish do resist human rule, but aren't powerful enough to take on an Exalted March that'd occur if they tried to actively attack the human powers in an organized manner. I do agree that the elves being more active would be a good thing, and hopefully they can take advantage of the brewing war in this manner, but it'll be a difficult road.

[El Dude 9]

I'm sure there gonna do an elf uprising in DA:I kinda like the way they did the geth quarian thing in ME3.

[-TC1989-]

I haven't played DA2 in a while... but werent alot of them joining the Qun when the Arishok waged war in Kirkwall? I guess that's some kind of start? Again I'm alittle rusty, memory wise on that.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

-TC1989- wrote...

I haven't played DA2 in a while... but werent alot of them joining the Qun when the Arishok waged war in Kirkwall? I guess that's some kind of start? Again I'm alittle rusty, memory wise on that.

They commited crimes in Kirkwall and only joined the Qun to escape punishment. I haven't played DA2 in a long time, either. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Xilizhra]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

I haven't played DA2 in a while... but werent alot of them joining the Qun when the Arishok waged war in Kirkwall? I guess that's some kind of start? Again I'm alittle rusty, memory wise on that.

They commited crimes in Kirkwall and only joined the Qun to escape punishment. I haven't played DA2 in a long time, either. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you fight other elves in that battle who've joined the Qun, and the elven fanatic in Blackpowder Courtesy wants revenge on the qunari for accepting so many converts.

[Dave of Canada]

Because they isolate themselves away from humans, raise themselves as hating humans and then wonder why they're treated like outsiders. They need to try and integrate themselves into human society slowly.

The fact that King Alistair / Queen Anora has the City Elf have their own Bann is gigantic and progressive (if you play a City Elf).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 mars 2013 - 03:26 .

[-TC1989-]

Xilizhra wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

I haven't played DA2 in a while... but werent alot of them joining the Qun when the Arishok waged war in Kirkwall? I guess that's some kind of start? Again I'm alittle rusty, memory wise on that.

They commited crimes in Kirkwall and only joined the Qun to escape punishment. I haven't played DA2 in a long time, either. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you fight other elves in that battle who've joined the Qun, and the elven fanatic in Blackpowder Courtesy wants revenge on the qunari for accepting so many converts.

I remember... that quest. But I thought that was just a lone fanatic leading a group. I thought the majority of the elves in Kirkwall were joining the Qun due to the injustices the city were giving them.

Modifié par -TC1989-, 16 mars 2013 - 03:27 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Xilizhra wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

I haven't played DA2 in a while... but werent alot of them joining the Qun when the Arishok waged war in Kirkwall? I guess that's some kind of start? Again I'm alittle rusty, memory wise on that.

They commited crimes in Kirkwall and only joined the Qun to escape punishment. I haven't played DA2 in a long time, either. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you fight other elves in that battle who've joined the Qun, and the elven fanatic in Blackpowder Courtesy wants revenge on the qunari for accepting so many converts.

Well, then they're even more pathetic than I thought. "Let's join another oppressive regime to escape this one!"

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 16 mars 2013 - 03:29 .

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because they isolate themselves away from humans, raise themselves as hating humans and then wonder why they're treated like outsiders. They need to try and integrate themselves into human society slowly.

The fact that King Alistair / Queen Anora has the City Elf have their own Bann is gigantic and progressive (if you play a City Elf).

Not unless they can get human society itself to become more accepting, allow it to transform into a human/elf society that preferably has greater syncretism between Andrastian and Dalish traditions, and find a way to magically insulate themselves from both the Quickening and being able to breed with humans... because integrating into human society when all elf/human children are human will lead to their eventual extinction; separation has been the only way to actually survive as a race.

[Darth Death]

Mental servitude is more pernicious than physical servitude. You can take the slave out of the master's grip, but not the master's grip out of the slave. Much was taken from the elves- their culture & ways of living. They're a lost race, searching for purpose that existed in the past & not the future. Their glory abolished & forever mind-screwed.

[Winterz]

Taking on "their opressors" is what got them where they are in the first place.Why would they try again when they got stomped twice?Smart thing to do if they unite is to settle down somewhere, keep a low profile and try and live in peace.Atacking the humans ( again) would be a particulary bad idea.

Modifié par HolySmite, 16 mars 2013 - 03:31 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because they isolate themselves away from humans, raise themselves as hating humans and then wonder why they're treated like outsiders. They need to try and integrate themselves into human society slowly.

The fact that King Alistair / Queen Anora has the City Elf have their own Bann is gigantic and progressive (if you play a City Elf).

Not unless they can get human society itself to become more accepting, allow it to transform into a human/elf society that preferably has greater syncretism between Andrastian and Dalish traditions, and find a way to magically insulate themselves from both the Quickening and being able to breed with humans... because integrating into human society when all elf/human children are human will lead to their eventual extinction; separation has been the only way to actually survive as a race.

I think the humans just pick on the elves because they know they can. Where is the Exalted March against the dwarves and qunari? They don't follow the Andrastian religion.

[Xilizhra]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because they isolate themselves away from humans, raise themselves as hating humans and then wonder why they're treated like outsiders. They need to try and integrate themselves into human society slowly.

The fact that King Alistair / Queen Anora has the City Elf have their own Bann is gigantic and progressive (if you play a City Elf).

Not unless they can get human society itself to become more accepting, allow it to transform into a human/elf society that preferably has greater syncretism between Andrastian and Dalish traditions, and find a way to magically insulate themselves from both the Quickening and being able to breed with humans... because integrating into human society when all elf/human children are human will lead to their eventual extinction; separation has been the only way to actually survive as a race.

I think the humans just pick on the elves because they know they can. Where is the Exalted March against the dwarves and qunari? They don't follow the Andrastian religion.

Uh, there was a big-ass Exalted March against the qunari; the biggest and longest ever, as a matter of fact. It eventually stopped because the Chantry simply couldn't bring down the qunari on their own territory, though they were mostly pushed out of Thedas. As for the dwarves, they're... well, they're isolationist. Which apparently works better for them than for elves, probably because humans and dwarves don't want each other's territory.

[-TC1989-]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because they isolate themselves away from humans, raise themselves as hating humans and then wonder why they're treated like outsiders. They need to try and integrate themselves into human society slowly.

The fact that King Alistair / Queen Anora has the City Elf have their own Bann is gigantic and progressive (if you play a City Elf).

Not unless they can get human society itself to become more accepting, allow it to transform into a human/elf society that preferably has greater syncretism between Andrastian and Dalish traditions, and find a way to magically insulate themselves from both the Quickening and being able to breed with humans... because integrating into human society when all elf/human children are human will lead to their eventual extinction; separation has been the only way to actually survive as a race.

I think the humans just pick on the elves because they know they can. Where is the Exalted March against the dwarves and qunari? They don't follow the Andrastian religion.

I thought atleast with the Qunari, they struck some sort of truce, because neither side was gaining advantage over the other? I'm not sure at all what the deal with Dwarves are however...

Man I need to play these games again... my mind is pretty hit and miss.

[Fast Jimmy]

Either way, I wouldn't consider converting to the Qun any form of fighting back. Considering that being born into the Qun, especially as a non-native, pretty much guarantees you to a life of menial labor and the lowest possible social status imaginable.

In regards to the OP, how would the elves NOT accept their condition? What form of reprisal would they have? They are poor, untrained and ill-equipped. It is not like they can be a challenge for the city guard, let alone for a formal army. If they tried to appeal to the government, they wouldn't get through the front door, because the rulers wouldn't deign to meet with knife-ears. And they can't appeal to the Chantry, since it was the Exalted March against the elves in the first place that caused them to be subjugated. What would a Mother say... I didn't realize your people were oppressed?

And, while joining the Dalish sounds appealing, I'm not sure any of us would abandon our home to be homeless nomads living in tents for the rest of our existence, with no idea where our next meal would be coming from or if the group of people I was going to be joining even would want me there.

I think the elves will be able to regain their freedom, but they will need organization. A coalition of Keepers, along with City-Elf leaders, to all come to some kind of consensus. This can only happen, of course, during a war. After all, how often do the Dalish clans all come together where the Keepers could discuss anything? The same would go for the City Elves. A war could recruit both sides of these groups and, by putting them together geographically, could begin lines of communication that could turn into something more permanent and sustaining.

[Reznore57]

There have been exalted marches against qunari , and the dwarves sell lyrium to the chantry.

The elves can't fight like the qunari , and they have nothing left ...
They do nothing because there's not much they can do .

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not unless they can get human society itself to become more accepting

Which won't happen until elves make an honest effort to integrate with human society. It'll take generations but it'll eventually reach a point where humanity doesn't mind having an elf roaming the streets.

allow it to transform into a human/elf society that preferably has greater syncretism between Andrastian and Dalish traditions

Won't happen, Dalish culture is very isolationist in it's approach. The fact that Dalish have difficulty accepting city elves and try to seperate themselves from them basically means it'll practically be impossible for them unless severe changes are made in the way which Dalish culture operates.

That and the Chantry preaches everyone should praise the Maker.

and find a way to magically insulate themselves from both the Quickening

Assuming the Quickening even exists or can be stopped at this point. Dalish may live longer than City Elves but it's probably related to their healthier lifestyle rather than the Quickening regressing.

and being able to breed with humans... because integrating into human society when all elf/human children are human will lead to their eventual extinction; separation has been the only way to actually survive as a race.

So the only hope for elves is recreating a new Dales, history shows that hasn't worked.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 mars 2013 - 03:50 .

[Evazin]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt they tryed to rebuild their society on Dales and the chantry went all Exalted Marche on them ?

I think the reason for the elves to not rebel is because they cant right now. I believe they lack both numbers and resorces to actually promote a rebelium. And if they do, who will support them?

Now, with the overthorwn of the chantry, and the templars gone rebel along with the mages, its possible they will try again. And if i'm not wrong, there isnt much to stop them. Orlais will enter civil war: Kirkwall must still be rebuilding (dunno the timeline betwen DA2 and DA:I); Ferelden isnt 100% rebuild from the blight, and we never heard so much from Anderfalls and the other countrys.

 

Modifié par Evazin, 16 mars 2013 - 03:51 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

So the only hope for elves is recreating a new Dales, history shows that hasn't worked.

The Dales failed as a concept because the Dalish were isolationist to the point of negligence. You can't stand by while the world is ravaged by a Blight and not fight if you're only defense for not doing so is "we want to keep ourselves pure from you dirty humans in order to become immortal again."

A nation that engages in normal diplomacy with all other races and nations is one that can survive. The Elves, if they ever did get their own nation again, would do better to research more into the Quickening through magical means to see if it is reversable (or if it is even true). Trying to keep yourselves untainted from humans is just not a practical possibility if you live are bordered in every direction with their nations.

Otherwise, find an island or something.

[Xilizhra]

Which won't happen until elves make an honest effort to integrate with human society. It'll take generations but it'll eventually reach a point where humanity doesn't mind having an elf roaming the streets.

Perhaps true, but such integration will not be completely nonviolent or based entirely on human goodwill.

Won't happen, Dalish culture is very isolationist in it's approach. The fact that Dalish have difficulty accepting city elves and try to seperate themselves from them basically means it'll practically be impossible for them unless severe changes are made in the way which Dalish culture operates.

That and the Chantry preaches everyone should praise the Maker.

If one of the two must fall, then I'll be fighting the Chantry.

Assuming the Quickening even exists or can be stopped at this point. Dalish may live longer than City Elves but it's probably related to their healthier lifestyle rather than the Quickening regressing.

So show me where Circle mage elves and noble servants live just as long as Dalish, sometimes reaching over a century.

So the only hope for elves is recreating a new Dales, history shows that hasn't worked.

Then a newer and better one needs to be found, which may require some kind of magical discovery we'll learn of in DAI.

[Fast Jimmy]

Evazin wrote...

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt they tryed to rebuild their society on Dales and the chantry went all Exalted Marche on them ?
 

The Chantry did declare an Exalted March... but it was hardly unprovoked.

The Dalish stood by during the Second Blight, not helping any of the other races fight the Darkspawn in order to avoid contact with humans. The Dalish army even stood and watched as a human city was ravaged by the Darkspawn horde, not lifting a finger to help them.

That set the mood for some very tense relations once the Blight was over.

Other than that, there are many stories about how it kicked off, ranging from Dalish elves being abused in a human city to the Dalish being caught doing forms of dark blood magic, to the Dalish raiding border cities, killing and pillaging. All of these are suspect. It is the most likely that the entire world was ticked off at the Dalish for being penisy during the Second Blight, so the Orlesian Empire seized the first opportunity they could to take their lands.

It was NOT a case of "the poor, defenseless Dalish." After all, they were holding their own against Orlais until the rest of the nations of Thedas joined in under the banner of an "Exalted March."

[Fast Jimmy]

Xilizhra wrote...

Assuming the Quickening even exists or can be stopped at this point. Dalish may live longer than City Elves but it's probably related to their healthier lifestyle rather than the Quickening regressing.

So show me where Circle mage elves and noble servants live just as long as Dalish, sometimes reaching over a century.

I'd say show me an example of either a Circle mage or a servant getting a tenth of the amount of exercise that an elf who would be running through the forest hunting game would get on a daily basis?

[Xilizhra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Assuming the Quickening even exists or can be stopped at this point. Dalish may live longer than City Elves but it's probably related to their healthier lifestyle rather than the Quickening regressing.

So show me where Circle mage elves and noble servants live just as long as Dalish, sometimes reaching over a century.

I'd say show me an example of either a Circle mage or a servant getting a tenth of the amount of exercise that an elf who would be running through the forest hunting game would get on a daily basis?

You are stretching this "healthier lifestyles" point so far I can hear tendons snapping. Especially since not every Dalish is a hunter.

[DPSSOC]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
I think the humans just pick on the elves because they know they can. Where is the Exalted March against the dwarves and qunari? They don't follow the Andrastian religion.

As has been mentioned an attempt was made against the Qunari, as for the Dwarves the reasons simple, they're useful and they don't pick fights.  Dwarves mine and trade lyrium with the Chantry and hold off the darkspawn between Blights, the Chantry doesn't have anything to gain from invading the Dwarves except cheaper lyrium, and when you consider the cost (monetary and otherwise) of then forcing the Dwarves to continue doing what they're doing (mining lyrium and killing darkspawn) it's just not worth it.

To answer the title question they really don't have much of a choice.  The City Elves are limited in what legal action they can take to improve their lot (somewhere between diddly and squat), and even more limited in what illegal action they can take as they lack the money for equipment (either for theivery or war) and the skill to outmatch standing forces in a city.  Now the Dalish I usually give a lot of grief about not learning from history, but they have learned one lesson, anyone they choose to fight is probably going to bring friends.  They know united they can't take on every nation (which is what happened in the Fall of the Dales) so they take great efforts to stay apart, presenting many smaller targets as opposed to one big one.  The Elves are not in a position to aggressively push for gains, and need to settle for what little gains they can manage until such an opportunity presents itself.