94 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

It's also possible you are stretching the longer life span, as well. Given that the only examples we've seen have been rumor or examples of blood magic.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that Real Life villages with the longest life span have physical labor tied to most of the village's profession (a common one is fisherman or farmer) and most people have to walk far distances on a regular basis. That sounds a lot like the Dalish lifestyle. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 16 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[Xilizhra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

It's also possible you are stretching the longer life span, as well. Given that the only examples we've seen have been rumor or examples of blood magic.

And Ilen's father, who lived back before Calenhad united Ferelden.

[dragondreamer]

Pride is the elves' worst enemy. I'd like to see them have an uprising in DA:I, but I think if something like The Dales II is gonna work out, they need to stop trying to return to the past and learn to co-exist with humans. The ancient elves were repeatedly crushed because they were too xenophobic. Even Arlathan got wiped out because most of the elves chose to run rather than fight back. Their original reasons for avoiding humans are meaningless now, and not worth the suffering.

I think the Dalish have the guts to raise an army and get things done, but the city elves are going to need to be the bridge.

[Evazin]

Do the city elves would want a rebelium? Of course they would want better quality life, and they should have, but are they that up for war? I can see they stoping working together all at once and claim for better rights or something like that, but after seeing them at the final of origin, they dont seen the fight type.
What would make the city elves want to join with the dalish? They pretty much consider them not "true" elves. How can you fight side-by-side with someone like that, and with not that much of a chance?

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because they isolate themselves away from humans, raise themselves as hating humans and then wonder why they're treated like outsiders. They need to try and integrate themselves into human society slowly.

The Dalish Warden's father was intent on working to mend the rift while keeping the Elves on their course. Shame that he died, though at least his son/daughter could pick up the mantle.

Shame that King Alistair implies that the Fereldans went all total **** on the Dalish when they got their land.

EDIT: Also, I recall one codex that said that when the Elves got their own homeland again, the Dalish could teach the City Elves about their lost culture while the City Elves could teach the Dalish Elves about how to best live alongside humans.

The fact that King Alistair / Queen Anora has the City Elf have their own Bann is gigantic and progressive (if you play a City Elf).

Though even that comes with its own gaping challenges, which is to be expected.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 mars 2013 - 04:50 .

[dragondreamer]

Isn't the situation for city elves in Orlais pretty bad? Not Tevinter bad, but still worse than Ferelden. And even the city elves in Ferelden riot when they get fed up enough. And there were city elves at the end of Origin that stayed to defend the alienage from the darkspawn. There's some fight in them, deep down. If the situation in Orlais gets really bad and an opportunity arises, who's to say they wouldn't join forces with the Dalish under the right circumstances. The Dalish and the city elves may not think much of each other, but the city elves wouldn't occasionally run away to join them and the Dalish wouldn't accept the runaways if it was completely hopeless between them.

[Blazomancer]

I don't know what the writers have in store for the elves in the DA universe. But in the real world, it would just be a matter of time. History has it that people have fought with bare hands and swords against canons and guns. Because people can only take too much oppression before finally giving up fear. Living free is the inherent nature of animals including humans, don't know about the city elves in DA lore.

[Evazin]

dragondreamer wrote...

Isn't the situation for city elves in Orlais pretty bad? Not Tevinter bad, but still worse than Ferelden. And even the city elves in Ferelden riot when they get fed up enough. And there were city elves at the end of Origin that stayed to defend the alienage from the darkspawn. There's some fight in them, deep down. If the situation in Orlais gets really bad and an opportunity arises, who's to say they wouldn't join forces with the Dalish under the right circumstances. The Dalish and the city elves may not think much of each other, but the city elves wouldn't occasionally run away to join them and the Dalish wouldn't accept the runaways if it was completely hopeless between them.

Uhn, didnt knew about the orlaisian elves getting a bad shaft. Now that i think about it, what will the orlaisian do with the elves during the civil war? Will they try to sell them like Loghain tryed to take out one problem, or is it so bad that they would go on execution or something like that?

Maybe, to boost their morale, city + dalish end up taking control of a medium city? Or even a fortress? Do elves even have artilary of some sort? Also, how are they gonna keep things like food and suply lines clean on the middle of the war? The dalish doesnt seem like the type to have a lot of stocked food, and the villages will problably be sacked by the revolutionarists.

Possibillitys indeed, now that i think about it.

[TEWR]

dragondreamer wrote...

Isn't the situation for city elves in Orlais pretty bad? Not Tevinter bad, but still worse than Ferelden.

It is. Elves have better lives in Ferelden then in Orlais. Val Royeaux's Alienage has 10,000 Elves crammed together in a miniscule little space no bigger then Denerim's Market Square where the walls prevent sunlight from reaching in until mid-day.

And even that's just the tip of the iceberg, as the Orlesian woman that fled with her brother after a Chevalier almost raped her tells an Elven Warden that Orlais is worse. Can't recall just what she said though.

And even the city elves in Ferelden riot when they get fed up enough. And there were city elves at the end of Origin that stayed to defend the alienage from the darkspawn.

That was less about staying to defend their home and more like they were forgotten by the city during evacuations, or so I gathered.

Like Kal-Hirol, but with Elves.

[Blazomancer]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
It is. Elves have better lives in Ferelden then in Orlais. Val Royeaux's Alienage has 10,000 Elves crammed together in a miniscule little space no bigger then Denerim's Market Square where the walls prevent sunlight from reaching in until mid-day.

And even that's just the tip of the iceberg, as the Orlesian woman that fled with her brother after a Chevalier almost raped her tells an Elven Warden that Orlais is worse. Can't recall just what she said though.

Also, IIRC, Leliana mentions to an elf warden something like people in Orlais like to keep elves in their homes because they are good to look at; as if they are things.

[Dave of Canada]

Blazomancer wrote...

But in the real world, it would just be a matter of time.

Then the rebellion is crushed and the status-quo becomes worse than it formely was, it's not a pretty thing.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 mars 2013 - 05:16 .

[Blazomancer]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Blazomancer wrote...

But in the real world, it would just be a matter of time.

Then the rebellion is crushed and the status-quo becomes worse than it formely was, it's not a pretty thing.

India says otherwise. The 'revolt of 1857' was crushed, but that spark finally led to India's independence in 1947.

It may or may not be a pretty thing, but I'd rather they fought and get crushed, rather than living a miserable life.

[brushyourteeth]

Blazomancer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
It is. Elves have better lives in Ferelden then in Orlais. Val Royeaux's Alienage has 10,000 Elves crammed together in a miniscule little space no bigger then Denerim's Market Square where the walls prevent sunlight from reaching in until mid-day.

And even that's just the tip of the iceberg, as the Orlesian woman that fled with her brother after a Chevalier almost raped her tells an Elven Warden that Orlais is worse. Can't recall just what she said though.

Also, IIRC, Leliana mentions to an elf warden something like people in Orlais like to keep elves in their homes because they are good to look at; as if they are things.

I wonder if they'd feel the same way about the Kirkwall elves...? 

[Blazomancer]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Blazomancer wrote...
Also, IIRC, Leliana mentions to an elf warden something like people in Orlais like to keep elves in their homes because they are good to look at; as if they are things.

I wonder if they'd feel the same way about the Kirkwall elves...? 

hehe, may be not. Or may be kirkwall elves used to be pretty during DA: Origins.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

You'd think they would get sick and tired of wandering around doing nothing or cleaning some noble's house everyday, or worse --- living in a disgusting alienage. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think they're a pretty pathetic lot myself. You'd think they would be trying to form some kind of alliance of unity amongst the dalish tribes and attack the human oppressors. But no, they just don't do anything to help themselves.

You don't see the dwarves backing down. They're still fighting the darkspawn and anyone else who gets in their way, and their race is even less varied than the elves. Could you imagine a human king telling a dwarven king that he's going to enslave his people if he doesn't comply? The dwarven response would be an axe to the head. The elves would bend knee right then and there and offer to shine the king's boots.

In Dragon Age 3, I really want to see them actually do something to help themselves.

You mean like the Scoia'tael? I know you guys hate it when Dragon Age is compared to the Witcher but given that you are suggesting that the elves of Dragon Age do exactly what the Scoia'tael did I see no way to avoid such a comparison.

As for why an elven uprising isnt a good idea just look at the Scoia'tael and their relation with both humans and non-humans that dont fall within their ranks. The Scoia'tael fight for freedom and the land that was stolen from them when humans invaded their lands, however their numbers are too few and in the end it comes down to a couple of guerillas throwing stones at a nation capable of a nuclear response and in the end it only makes things worse. The leaders use the Scoia'tael as an example of the violent and dangerous nature of non-humans allowing them to tighten their grip and further oppress the peaceful non-humans living within their walls causing relations between humans, non-humans and the scoia'tael to become further strained.

"When you see your buddy take a Scoia'tael arrow through the neck it is hard to look favorably on the elf that sells your wife colored kerchiefs".

It is why Loredo was able to keep such a tight grip on Flotsam, with Iorveth and his scoia'tael in the woods just outside town walls ready to kill any human that moves people tend to be more willing to put up with a bit of oppression for the safety of Flotsam's walls.

Ok yeah that had nothing to do with Dragon Age but the point remains valid. That being said the Dragon Age universe is far more idealistic than the Witcher universe (which is why it is very hard to consider it dark and mature dispite how hard the devs try to market that angle) and an Elven uprising would probably succeed and even be supported by the noble king Alistair (or Queen Anora), but what I am saying is that a world based more on realism than idealism it probably wouldnt be a good idea

[Dave of Canada]

Blazomancer wrote...

India says otherwise. The 'revolt of 1857' was crushed, but that spark finally led to India's independence in 1947.

But for every successful revolution, there's countless others who've failed.

[Blazomancer]

@Dave of Canada - Yes, I agree that there are countless others that have failed. But they revolt anyway without thinking about the consequences. Whether they succeed or not in the long run will probably depend on many other factors like coordination and leadership. But my point is that there comes a time when the oppressed will always rise against the oppressors despite the odds. Whether that's a smart move or not is irrelevant. We don't get to tell a man in chains - 'don't bother breaking loose, you'll die before you can smell freedom anyway.'

[Fredward]

Conforming to the status quo is what people do bro. Why did so many people "accept" going to concentration camps? Why did the slaves not raise up all over the damn place? Why did Apartheid go on as long as it did? People have this tendency to be sheep. Until one sheep rises up to point out an alternative people just accept cuz they don't know anything else.

Also rising up while the world wasn't in chaos would've been a disaster.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 16 mars 2013 - 07:42 .

[Chiramu]

There is probably an elven equivalent of Shylock in the Dragon Age world somewhere, but the writers of Dragon Age don't show us the small things, they get us involved in the big, world shattering events.

An elven person revolting by him or herself is very small in comparison to what the dev team is focusing on.

So there is most probably many elves that don't put up with that ****, the City Elf origin shows you that. But DA2 and it seems DA3 will not look at elves too closely.

[nightscrawl]

-TC1989- wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

I haven't played DA2 in a while... but werent alot of them joining the Qun when the Arishok waged war in Kirkwall? I guess that's some kind of start? Again I'm alittle rusty, memory wise on that.

They commited crimes in Kirkwall and only joined the Qun to escape punishment. I haven't played DA2 in a long time, either. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you fight other elves in that battle who've joined the Qun, and the elven fanatic in Blackpowder Courtesy wants revenge on the qunari for accepting so many converts.

I remember... that quest. But I thought that was just a lone fanatic leading a group. I thought the majority of the elves in Kirkwall were joining the Qun due to the injustices the city were giving them.

Going to clarify some of this.

Links below are gameplay video clips.

First mention - In the quest Blackpowder Courtesy, the elven fanatic does mention her fellow elves (she says "siblings," but I'm not sure if this is literal or more of a racial "brotherhood" type of thing) joining the Qun: "Qunari take my people. My siblings forget their culture, then go to the Qun for purpose. We're losing them twice."

Second mention - In the quest Demands of the Qun is where we see the two elven brothers who joined the Qun.

During the aftermath in Demands of the Qun where you are fighting your way through Lowtown is where you meet several Qunari as well as elven fighters.

It is never stated whether these elves that you fight are also viddathari or are just merely siding with the Qunari in this instance because they saw an opportunity (their mob name is Elven Supporter). It is also never stated just how many elves have joined or attempted to join the Qun. I think that assuming "a lot" or "a majority" of elves in Kirkwall joined the Qun would be an error, with only minor circumstantial evidence to support it.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 16 mars 2013 - 08:41 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Because if they don't then the scumbag human nobles of thedas would just wipe them out.

[Wulfram]

The city elves do rebel quite regularly, it seems. Or at least riot, which is the closest they can get. But they're a scattered and unarmed minority, so it's self destructive.

[Overlord_Mephist]

Reminds me of a line from one of the WoT books "Only in fantasy do untrained peasants armed with pitchforks and rocks defeat their oppressors because of their desire to be free. In reality they get slaughtered." Remember that lvl1 elf who attacks you if you try to force your way into the tevinter compound in the Denerim alienage, it would be like that.

[Minotaur55]

Dwarves have always had a righteous behavior about them, usually dwarves don't care about what humans want (possibly elves too). Not only that, humans wont be able to enslave dwarves. The dwarves would go to war (if Orzammar doesn't have another set of issues on its hands), dwarven made armor and weapons will be cut off from the surface, and the lyruim trade will fall, rendering the Circle of Magi almost completely useless. Not to mention Grey Warden treaties; if a Warden is human the dwarves would reject helping him/her, maybe even try to kill him/her. So the dwarves are to valuable to treat like trash you see.

Elves however are different; They don't really have any worth outside of slavery. Dalish elves don't offer anything to the humans and its not like the Ferelden military is going to tell an elf to mold and shape wood for it. Not only that, elves use to be immortal. Maybe subconsciously humans are afraid that if they don't control elves that in some 200 years or so they will find the secrets of Elvhenan and become immortal again, then go to war with the humans and then who knows what.

Plus elves used to be slaves, and it will take time for them to become equals. Many people in life know this. Plus things could run slower over there too. lol

[Joy Divison]

Blazomancer wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Blazomancer wrote...

But in the real world, it would just be a matter of time.

Then the rebellion is crushed and the status-quo becomes worse than it formely was, it's not a pretty thing.

India says otherwise. The 'revolt of 1857' was crushed, but that spark finally led to India's independence in 1947.

It may or may not be a pretty thing, but I'd rather they fought and get crushed, rather than living a miserable life.

You didn't just compare the scattered Dragon Age city elves who are a noticable minority in Thedas that have lost much of their cultural heritage with India, the second most populous nation with a proud culutral heritage stretching back thousands of years who were ruled by a tiny minority thousands of miles away, did you?

DA City Elves are more akin to Native Americans.