4466 réponses à ce sujet

[Abriael_CG]

ohupthis wrote...

thanks, I was going to type a longer version, but these nubs aren't worth my time and effort.

Good call, at least we had to read only one version of that flawed strawman argument.

[TheRev81]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

Having been in software development, and currently being head dev for a NWN server, I lay down this challenge for all those complaining about how Bioware "can't get one extra hour of content right."

Come up with an idea for an add-on for DA:O that gives an extra hour of new content gameplay. Then decide on a release date. Once that is done, get the toolset and make it, so it integrates dialog and decisions for the rest of the game. Then make Console versions of your add-on. When finished, see how close you got to your release date. If you missed by more than 5 days early, have someone yell at you for padding your time and causing future release dates to be later than they could have been. If you missed by more than 5 days late, post here, and request that a few thousand people yell at you because something unforeseen went wrong.

While being yelled at, see how much enthusiasm you have for continuing to work on making things for other people to enjoy.

Ah, this thread is becoming such a lovely collection of the most vile "flawed arguments of the century. Internet forums edition".

Now it's the turn of the most basic strawman argument: "If you can't do it, you have no right to complain"
It didn't come up for a few pages, mind you, so it was natural that some misguided smartiepants would have brought it up again sooner or later.

Maybe you should get an idea nailed in your brain: Bioware developers are PAID to do all the things you listed, and have a whole team to achieve the results you mentioned.
They aren't amateur volunteers sacrificing for the greater good and fueling their "enthusiasm" into a project in order to "make things for other people to enjoy". They are professionals performing a well paid job.

They are the developers. We are the customers. Our own coding/toolset abilities have no bearing to our right to complain when we are offered a sub par product, or in this case, when a release schedule gets so messed up that many of us, long after what supposed to be the release date, already paid for a product that we don't have. And on top of it communication is direly insufficent.

Mind you, if everyone had the technical capabilitues to take you up on your flamebat challenge, maybe there'd be less complaints, but one thing is for sure, your beloved developers would be unemployed. So they can be happy that they have this kind of following, complaining or not.

If one of my clients has a legitimate problem with a project I deliver, I sure won't give him the silly line: "if you can't do it yourself, don't complain". If he could do it, he wouldn't give me money to do it. And the fact that he gives me money, gives him plenty right to complain if I don't deliver, deliver late, or don't communicate properly when there are problems.

Maybe you did? That might be the reason why you "have been" in software development. Past tense.

You are more or less correct on that. The problem here is that Bioware gave a timeframe of when this was going to be released, and they missed it. If they never gave a time and just stated they are working on a DLC, then no one would have the right to complain. You tell people the DLC is going to be out at 'said time' and miss it, then everyone has a right to complain. Now granted, this doesn't give you the right to act like a child not able to get anything while at the candy store, but it does give you the right to complain about the product. Never give a date unless you know for sure you can make it.

[Polemists05]

So....170 pages....still no dlc....yet some of you think that's good?



In other news, who wants ME2 I do.



It's not one thing. It's not like Bioware said, this only in this dlc fair enough.



This game, the flash game, the toolset, this dlc. Look, if they want to always miss dates that fine but then the fans of bioware shouldn't be surprised when people are skeptical about awakening getting released in march.



Now people are mad because people know the devs will focus more on ME 2 and less on DAO. DAO had a thin window to get love, then ME 2, then ME 2 Dlc, then awakening, so on and so forth.



It's one hour, one. Now if it was a lower price, a more reasonable amount of points, or more content sure. But five bucks for one hour? That's worse then the video store.

[Abriael_CG]

TheRev81 wrote...
You are more or less correct on that. The problem here is that Bioware gave a timeframe of when this was going to be released, and they missed it. If they never gave a time and just stated they are working on a DLC, then no one would have the right to complain. You tell people the DLC is going to be out at 'said time' and miss it, then everyone has a right to complain. Now granted, this doesn't give you the right to act like a child not able to get anything while at the candy store, but it does give you the right to complain about the product. Never give a date unless you know for sure you can make it.

Actually that's, professionally speaking, backwards thinking.
The problem is not that they gave a release date, that's the bare minimum a professional game developer (or developer of anything commercial, really) should do. It gives a chance for people to plan their purchases. How many gamers have their savings carefully piled up for march, since everyone and his mother is gonna release their top-tier games in that month?
The problem is lays in the fact that they missed the dates they set.
Release dates aren't the source of all evil. Insufficent testing, QA and planning are.

Not to mention the fact that when a company prompts and encourage customers to pay in advance via preorder or, in this case, via a point system, release dates are an absolute ethical necessity. It makes no sense to say "give us the money for now, then, when we deign to be done, you'll get something for it".
And that's the biggest problem now. Many of us were misled into paying for RtO in advance, and Bioware is adamantly refusing to tell us when we'll enjoy our money's woth. Which is quite unprofessional, even more than missing release dates.

Polemists05 wrote...

Now people are mad because people
know the devs will focus more on ME 2 and less on DAO. DAO had a thin
window to get love, then ME 2, then ME 2 Dlc, then awakening, so on and
so forth

DA:O is developed by Bioware Edmonton. Mass Effect 2 is developed by Bioware Montreal. Two different teams for two different games. Development-wise, the release of Mass Effect 2 is near inconsequential to DA:O

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:07 .

[AKASlaphappy]

Abriael_CG wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

thanks, I was going to type a longer version, but these nubs aren't worth my time and effort.

Good call, at least we had to read only one version of that flawed strawman argument.

I love your logic that ever opinion that differs from yours is a flawed strawman argument. And that if we are not pissed at Bioware for delaying RTO, then we are wrong and we all should follow your brilliant thinking. Well by that logic no one on this forum better own any Blizzard games, since they delay ever game they ever make. When they should just push out that product come hell or high water on the day they guessed it would be out.

[xXJimJam89Xx]

AKASlaphappy wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

thanks, I was going to type a longer version, but these nubs aren't worth my time and effort.

Good call, at least we had to read only one version of that flawed strawman argument.

I love your logic that ever opinion that differs from yours is a flawed strawman argument. And that if we are not pissed at Bioware for delaying RTO, then we are wrong and we all should follow your brilliant thinking. Well by that logic no one on this forum better own any Blizzard games, since they delay ever game they ever make. When they should just push out that product come hell or high water on the day they guessed it would be out.

good call slaphappy

[addiction21]

just you two wait.... really browse thru thread. Ya should just leave it alone and walk away while some sanity is left in you.

Modifié par addiction21, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:09 .

[AndersB]

Are we there yet?

[xXJimJam89Xx]

addiction21 wrote...

just you two wait.... really browse thru thread. Ya should just leave it alone and walk away while some sanity is left in you.

haha yet another good point

[jedimaster52501]

Solostran85 wrote...

Rto will be a distant memory once ME2 is out. I hope the devs release it before then.

i highly doubt that happens, read on G4tv.com that they are beta testing the ptch for the 360 version, what a shame.

[Dar_Vender]

I take it its the 360 version that is holding things up. I know the consoles are where the money is but seeing as PC gamers built Bioware to where it is they might release *shock horror* the PC version first. They already made us wait for about 5 months while they finished the console version of the game, cant they at least let us have the pc DLC first :/



Answer me this, if PC gaming is dieing as the console giants would have us believe, why are they worried about releasing better looking, cheaper versions of their games on the PC first. Food for thought.

[Sethan_1]

Quite simply, attempting to do it themselves would give some of the people flaming Bioware here an appreciation of exactly what it takes to not just make the content, but precisely hit a release date, particularly when they are likely under a contractural agreement to release on all three platforms at once.

Perhaps that might be enough - certainly expecting simple courtesy isn't.

Incidentally, the primary reason I no longer work for a computer game company is because the company, over my objections, released a game that was horribly broken, to meet a release date.  Returns on that game were around 50%.  A month later, we shipped a patch disk to all the people who had actually registered the game, that made it slightly less horribly broken (as in, no longer crashed immediately on trying to run it, but still with many major flaws).

Aside from the major hit in reputation it cost the company, which cost us in future sales, it affected profits on all our future titles in other ways.  It is standard practice for distributors to hold back a certain percentage of money received from sales, to account for returns.  Any money left out of that percentage is eventually returned to the company after a certain period has elapsed.  After that failed game, the distributors doubled the percentage they held back - which severely impacted our cash flow.

As a result, the company eventually went out of business.

Modifié par Sethan_1, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:44 .

[squid5580]

Dar_Vender wrote...

I take it its the 360 version that is holding things up. I know the consoles are where the money is but seeing as PC gamers built Bioware to where it is they might release *shock horror* the PC version first. They already made us wait for about 5 months while they finished the console version of the game, cant they at least let us have the pc DLC first :/

Answer me this, if PC gaming is dieing as the console giants would have us believe, why are they worried about releasing better looking, cheaper versions of their games on the PC first. Food for thought.

So you expect them to risk the big money for the little game huh? Ya lets ****** off the console gamers who are insuring we get paychecks every week (or is it 2?) because PC gamers back in the day helped support us by buying our products. Alot of whom are probably now console gamers (myself being one of them). So since  I was one of the ones who "helped build the company" (it had nothing to do with thier developing skills or thier ability to make good entertaining games) I demand the 360 version should come first since that is now my console of choice.

EPIC FAIL!

[BWBamboo]

Huh. 170 pages late for the party.

What I do not get: Why would you pay in advance for a digitally delivered product? Are there any advantages at all to just paying for it once it's out? With actual physical products I get it, the store might run out and you would have to wait until they restock, but with DLC?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Abriael_CG wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

thanks, I was going to type a longer version, but these nubs aren't worth my time and effort.

Good call, at least we had to read only one version of that flawed strawman argument.

Let me ask you this,............if you can do better, why don't you give it a whirl?

[xX Krulz Xx]

Hi, I already fixed the specs lock with those tips, but seems I cant update my info/characters in here.

Every time I play the game I get a Timeout response from ea/bioware serveres.

[halfempty77]

BlackCrusader wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

Having been in software development, and currently being head dev for a NWN server, I lay down this challenge for all those complaining about how Bioware "can't get one extra hour of content right."

Come up with an idea for an add-on for DA:O that gives an extra hour of new content gameplay. Then decide on a release date. Once that is done, get the toolset and make it, so it integrates dialog and decisions for the rest of the game. Then make Console versions of your add-on. When finished, see how close you got to your release date. If you missed by more than 5 days early, have someone yell at you for padding your time and causing future release dates to be later than they could have been. If you missed by more than 5 days late, post here, and request that a few thousand people yell at you because something unforeseen went wrong.

While being yelled at, see how much enthusiasm you have for continuing to work on making things for other people to enjoy.

Amen, brother.

and that is assuming only one cosole version when there are two AND there are 9 different languages that thea game is sold in (i think) is a little bit more complicated than most of you want to admit

[chaostheory59]

Dar_Vender wrote...

I take it its the 360 version that is holding things up. I know the consoles are where the money is but seeing as PC gamers built Bioware to where it is they might release *shock horror* the PC version first. They already made us wait for about 5 months while they finished the console version of the game, cant they at least let us have the pc DLC first :/

Answer me this, if PC gaming is dieing as the console giants would have us believe, why are they worried about releasing better looking, cheaper versions of their games on the PC first. Food for thought.

You dont get it....its not xbox's fault, they just found the virus at the last minute. would you like to have a DLC that would F@#k up your game? i sure wouldnt want that. Its not the fault of PC, Xbox, and PS3. Its the fault of some of the companies and their deadlines. Some times, like said on the previous page, like EA demand something too soon. Bioware make awsome games, but it cannot be rushed. Its like ordering a customized computer, you cannot get it the next day, it takes time to make and ship. this is the same case with Bioware and the other Companies that demand an early release date.

[zykinwulf]

http://marketplace.x...00-0000454108c0



wonder if this works now =\\

[Jekzer]

BWBamboo wrote...

Huh. 170 pages late for the party.

What I do not get: Why would you pay in advance for a digitally delivered product? Are there any advantages at all to just paying for it once it's out? With actual physical products I get it, the store might run out and you would have to wait until they restock, but with DLC?

Normally with DLC there are no extras for  "preorder" or paying in advance. That is different for a great amount of expansions or games in digital (deluxe?) editions.

But many people have some Bioware Points / MSPoints / Wii Points / Insertname Points because they'll know that there will be new extras (in a near future and normally "DLC format") and they prefer to have it just NOW (the points).

IMHO, I prefer to wait to these "extras" to be deployed, without great bug problems (maybe wait some days for feedback) and then pay it.

[jedimaster52501]

no, no and no, thanks alot EA, thanks a lot Bioware, thanks a lot Microsoft, your all a bunch of idiots, Mass Effect 2 will be released before RtO, i am calling BS on this, damn you all to hell EA, Bioware and Microsoft. thanks for nothing. i was hoping this would be resolved before the release of Mass Effect 2, looks like a lot of were wrong, take the DLC and shove it up your asses.

Modifié par jedimaster52501, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:39 .

[AndreaDraco]

Wow. What a constructive approach.



So what if RtO is released after ME? What's the big deal?

[hirstym]

zykinwulf wrote...

http://marketplace.x...00-0000454108c0

wonder if this works now =\\\\

nice find it also says free aswell i'll try downloading it when i get back to mine

[Warden24]

That doesn't work, don't believe this ****.

[Stinkface27]

I hope this comes out within the next few days, otherwise I'm probably going to lose my mind waiting for ME2 =)