4466 réponses à ce sujet

[Pix Deadmeat]

highcastle wrote...

360 USERS: I can confirm that you can remove the spec bug by clearing the system cache. You need an old save so you can unlock one spec again, then shut down the system. After rebooting, all your specs should be back. I have all DLC, including RtO, and this does not appear to affect them. So for anyone stuck with a broken game, you now have a fix for it without doing any damage to your system. The only consequence of clearing your cache is re-downloading any updates for other games. But since the DA:O title patch has been removed, that's not a problem for this game.

Sorry, I'm a newbie, so silly question probably but by ''The only consequence of clearing your cache is re-downloading any updates for other games'' does that mean I'll lose things like Shivering Isles on Obliv, and all my save games?

Thanks for the help in the fix though people, good to see some people being so helpful rather than just arguing!

[R1Driver]

Abriael_CG wrote...

grieferbastard wrote...

So what are you expecting to get out of this? Some sense of control or influence?

They are questions. What does one normally expect to get from questions if not answers? It's that simple.
You're entirely free to add your own

R1Driver wrote...
This is beginning  to look/feel like HellgateLondon, when things were starting to go down the drain ...
Just my 2cent (Eurocents)

The Hellgate London debacle DID come to mind a few times in the last few days, But I think it's safe to assume that it won't go THAT badly.

No I agree, but it is the same kind of ignorance from the dev's side we're witnessing here - And that IS a pain in the b..t 

[MprezdNZ]

AndersB wrote...

Where can I find this (RTO) leaked version for PC?

Is this is a test to ban a few members?

[EsstheSeeker]

My bad, I didn't know it wasn't cool to pick at implications.

[MprezdNZ]

Feraele wrote...

awsome_robot wrote...

level of anger: pc owners, followed by 360 owners (the ones that truly should be angriest), and then the ps3 owners (we didn't even had a set release date for rto even before the first delay).
i don't see why the pc version has been held since according to 360 the problem is the patch, which is only tied to the 360 and ps3 versions... it shouldn't affect the pc version unless they decided to do a patch for that version as well.

I'm pc as well, and I must say I am not angry about the delays. The only thing that would anger me is if my thoughts on an agreement between BW?EA and MS are true re: simultaneous release. Then BW lied to us (unless the agreement was an EA agreement they had not been made aware of which is unlikely but possible) about the consoles not affecting the pc. 

I just want to stand up here and say..I am a PC owner, did not buy the points ahead of time and most of all, I am not angry. 

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

grieferbastard wrote...


Does that make you feel better? If you have business experience than you must realize that A: educating customers beyond the bare minimum just creates questions and confusion and that B: privacy and liability laws and policy will prevent any business from being able to identify detailed causes/individuals until well after the fact if at all.

I vote with my dollar. If it's not worth the investment I will spend it elsewhere. If it is, I will purchase it. Demanding resources be expended in keeping me up to date on product development and internal policy on its resolution is both pointless and serves only to inappropriately inflate a sense of self-importance. What IS important is that the issues get resolved as quickly as possible and that the product is released in the best quality possible. How that is accomplished is an internal business matter for BioWare.

The thing is we're not even getting the bare minimum here. I also respectively disagree, that giving a status update, like MANY MANY developers do be it on MMO's or other titles only leads to confusion. I'm not entirely sure where the logic is in a statement like that is to begin with. You may be perfectly alright with being left in the dark but that neither makes it right, pointless or logical.

Basically saying leaving everyone on the pc side of things in the absolute dark makes far more sense then giving you fans a heads up on the status comes off as blind fanboyism and not much else. To think that Bioware does not have a clue and most likely a time frame at this point just reeks of naivety

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...
So you wish an hour on the hour, blow by blow report each time they sneeze that it? Its not our business..and probably 99% of us wouldn't know what the heck they were talking about in the first place.

Day by day would be quite enough, I would say, provided that the posts are informative and not just a "we're working on it, keep waiting". What I wish has been summarized in the questions I asked, no less, no more. Maybe they will answer none, maybe they will answer a few, maybe just one. Whatever they answer will be better than the current nix, zero, nada.

You continue to extremize what I ask in order to make it look incredibly demanding for some reason, but you should know that the reductio ad absurdum is a logical fallacy.

[EsstheSeeker]

This seems to have gotten trends that really only lead to more misunderstandings. The real thing here is that NOBODY is  MAJORLY disagreeing with each other. I think if we all calmed down we would see that.


:innocent:

Modifié par EsstheSeeker, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:11 .

[grieferbastard]

I confess I avoid saying some things because I don't want to repeatedly parrot the same things, but admittedly much of it was in posts 20 pages ago and likely got missed.

You, as a person, are comforted by knowing and understanding things. So am I for that matter. I like knowing how they work and what is coming up/happening.

That makes us freaks. The majority of human beings find that much detail confusing. I've worked in/trained people for customer service/PC/tech support for about 20 years. This isn't just an assumption. Any sort of customer-facing business tracks how many times a customer repeats contact on the same issue. Generally it's called 'one call resolution'. The single largest driver as a percentage of return calls is called 'data-dumping'. Providing the customer with more information than they need. Now, a small percentage of folks want that. They want to understand everything. They're the exception however. In the overwhelming majority what that creates is confusion. They call back with more questions that, in truth, don't impact their equipment/service/experience at all. As much as possible a responsible CS/PR approach avoid giving too much detail for two reasons: 

First, while some people are comforted by it most people just find it leads to more questions or a sense of unease.

Second, it complicates privacy policy and liability. Especially with vendors and partners.

Do I want to know when it's going to be released? Absolutely. Do I want to know that BioWare realizes people are upset that the original dates were missed? Without question.

Yet the truth is they have to continue to pay their people if they are selling the DLC to us or not. Every single hour that it's not available is more money they are out without projected compensation. Release dates figure into budgets and there's no question that the expected money from RtO was already spent, in a figurative sense, before January 5th. To say that you expect communication on these things is to imply that you assume they are not as concerened as you if not more so. Communication gets delayed to ensure vetting of the message. As you've already said, the issues themselves are doubtlessly already resolved. The motivation to resolve them is driven by BioWares needs as a business, not your satisfaction as a consumer.

So I repeat, what are you trying to accomplish? Is it just that you, as a person, need to understand what happened to feel comfortable with it? If so I can empathize in a way. Just realize that you are indeed a freak. The number one desire in most consumers is to just HAVE it. Number two is to know that someone got punished.

[Paragon Fury]

So has the glitched title update been pulled, or the update my 360 is asking me to do still the bad one?

[Abriael_CG]

Pix Deadmeat wrote...
Sorry, I'm a newbie, so silly question probably but by ''The only consequence of clearing your cache is re-downloading any updates for other games'' does that mean I'll lose things like Shivering Isles on Obliv, and all my save games?

You will loose no save game. You'll lose just product updates (and it doesn't include DLC as far as I know) that will be redoanloaded automatically as soon as you fire up any updated game.
Iin any case, even if clearing the cache would uninstall some DLC (I'm not sure there), they are registered on your name, and as such you will be able to redownload them.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:12 .

[Cybercat999]

EsstheSeeker wrote...

This seems to have gotten trends that really only lead to more misunderstandings. The real thing here is that NOBODY is  MAJORLY disagreeing with each other. I think if we all calmed down we would see that.


:innocent:

Um... no. That would kill all the fun.

[EsstheSeeker]

Smokescreen is a term that means blocking all useful information behind platitudes. Your negative connotations are a personal bias.

Everyone from priests to politicians use it.

ITS SO HARD TO REMEMBER SMILIES TO SHOW THE TONE:

Modifié par EsstheSeeker, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:15 .

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...

Then I suggest you eliminate smokescreen from your musings...and it will allow me to possibly consider your demands as a little more rational.

You mean the term "smokescreen"? I wonder why I should, it's a widely used part of PR and marketing lingo, and it's perfectly fitting to what's happening here. The "we're working on it, keep waiting" is nothing else than that. I'm sorry if the use of that term offends you (I wonder why), but given that english is not my first language, I have to go with the terms i know. Care to suggest another equally fitting definition?

[grieferbastard]

On the question of status updates:

Without question the dev/QA people will have deadlines they have either volunteered or likely been given. Those however can be pushed back by vendors/distributers/partners (read MS). This means that BioWare is going to have an internal policy, likely tied in contract with vendors/partners/distributers, about announcing any sort of resolution or release date. Thus to set a solid date you've got to push it out so far nobody feels pressured by it.

It's faster, especially when you're talking about an issue resolved in hours to a couple of days instead of weeks, to shove resolution down the pipe as fast as people can take it. Getting an agreed upon fixed date is going to take longer than resolving the issue because when a release date/resolution date gets missed it likely involves financial penalties either among vendors/partners/distribution channels or on performance metrics for the people involved.

Thus the only sort of status updates that can be safely made are 'we know there's a problem and we're fixing it ASAP'. Which is only going to provoke more complaint.

It's a crappy situation. I wish I knew more about what was happening and why and what to expect. I really do. I just accept the realities about business that make providing me that sort of data unrealistic and that fortunately I don't need to be aware or involved for the pressure required to fix the issue and get me my DLC to be in place.

Asking for something that they can not realistically provide is just going to frustratefolks. It is not going to resolve anything any quicker or impact how future DLC is handled. While I know this isn't what anyone wants to hear or what's going to make anyone feel empowered, that doesn't make it untrue.

Modifié par grieferbastard, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:23 .

[Charliff01]

I think i am going to sell smoke detectors here... =p

[Nadez666]

Okay, Wow, this is totally fun, I think I will probably enjoy all this more then the DLC and im just a lonely little PS3 user among all you heap big PC and 360 Players, but I have to say im finding myself agreeing with BOTH sides of this Argument... so of course I figured id list my favorites of this little play..which by the way I have been reading for an hour and a half, I stopped reading at 61 last night, I come back on this morning and start reading again noticing as im turning pages that MORE and MORE pages are appearing, thus landing me here at 75 an hour and a half after beginning to read them, now too the Actors and Actresses! This is not meant to be sarcastic, Ive truly enjoyed all those I mentions posts, despite that some conflict with eachothers





Abriael_CG and his Follower EsstheSeeker Props to you guys, your funny as hell, yet informative and demanding at the same time



grieferbastard and his Follower (though its not official and shes more angry then he) Feraele, griefer you are the voice of peace making, and it seems to me Feraele is the one who puts a bit of bite into your words by carrying them on..



Then of course the People I cant fit into a group but have also very much enjoyed reading



KCFender



AlaskanHusky



MprezdNZ





And last but not Least, though im sure if I searched I could find more ive enjoyed, the Verbal Earthworm

[EsstheSeeker]

Abriael_CG wrote...
given that english is not my first language, I have to go with the terms i know. Care to suggest another equally fitting definition?

That explains the term "secondarily" when I am more used to seeing secondly.

Try platitudes. We have been on a diet of platitudes (few and far between as they may be ) since the 13th.

[Abriael_CG]

grieferbastard wrote...
So I repeat, what are you trying to accomplish? Is it just that you, as a person, need to understand what happened to feel comfortable with it? If so I can empathize in a way. Just realize that you are indeed a freak. The number one desire in most consumers is to just HAVE it. Number two is to know that someone got punished.

Again, question -> answer. With questions one asks to receive answers. There's nothing more behind it, and I honestly couldn't care the less about freaks or the like.
You talk about generic customers, but the gaming market is not generic, and gamers are not your average, generic customers. They are more in average more schooled about the product they use, expecially regular forum goers, and that makes their attitude towards the product itself, AND towards communication, different. That means that communication with gamers (or with other similar fanbases, like the Anime one for instance) has to be done in a fairly different way than with the average customer of, say, a washing machine.

I've been in and around the gaming market enough to know that details (and with details, one doesn't mean the small nuts and bolts, there's deefinitely an happy and understandablòe medium between the smallest detail and the nothing at all) and roadmaps are a good way to make customers feel better when they cannot HAVE the product. Also. gamers normally can't care the less about people getting punished.

Personally, I just want to know when the money that I already paid will net me the product I paid for. Once I have a tentative idea of that, I will feel more at ease (and I won't be the only one), not to mention the fact that I will be able to plan my playthroughs ahead so that I won't have to play RtO too late in the story, thing that would make me enjoy it less.

@Feraele: I'm afraid the negative connotation of the word "smokescreen" is your own bias. In marketing, actually, "smokescreen" has a positive connotation, as a tool that can often be useful. Of course it's useful only so far, and at the moment we're way beyond that point.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:27 .

[EsstheSeeker]

Nadez666 wrote...

Okay, Wow, this is totally fun, I think I will probably enjoy all this more then the DLC and im just a lonely little PS3 user among all you heap big PC and 360 Players, but I have to say im finding myself agreeing with BOTH sides of this Argument... so of course I figured id list my favorites of this little play..which by the way I have been reading for an hour and a half, I stopped reading at 61 last night, I come back on this morning and start reading again noticing as im turning pages that MORE and MORE pages are appearing, thus landing me here at 75 an hour and a half after beginning to read them, now too the Actors and Actresses! This is not meant to be sarcastic, Ive truly enjoyed all those I mentions posts, despite that some conflict with eachothers


Abriael_CG and his Follower EsstheSeeker Props to you guys, your funny as hell, yet informative and demanding at the same time

grieferbastard and his Follower (though its not official and shes more angry then he) Feraele, griefer you are the voice of peace making, and it seems to me Feraele is the one who puts a bit of bite into your words by carrying them on..

Then of course the People I cant fit into a group but have also very much enjoyed reading

KCFender

AlaskanHusky

MprezdNZ


And last but not Least, though im sure if I searched I could find more ive enjoyed, the Verbal Earthworm

Ess aproves +100
Status set to Friendly

Ready to hear the story of how I got this scar on my forehead?

[mohammadfairuz]

ZiggyT wrote...

highcastle wrote...

360 USERS: I can confirm that you can remove the spec bug by clearing the system cache. You need an old save so you can unlock one spec again, then shut down the system. After rebooting, all your specs should be back. I have all DLC, including RtO, and this does not appear to affect them. So for anyone stuck with a broken game, you now have a fix for it without doing any damage to your system. The only consequence of clearing your cache is re-downloading any updates for other games. But since the DA:O title patch has been removed, that's not a problem for this game.

This worked for me also,i didnt even reboot the 360 i just saved,exited to the dashboard and reloaded the game and the were all unlocked on my new Rouge! 

OK tried it and seems to work. WIll probably play DAO for an hour or so just to be sure. Relieved....

Modifié par mohammadfairuz, 15 janvier 2010 - 05:33 .