4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Epsilon330]

In terms of logistics, the Geth Fleets are worth far more than the Quarian Fleets in terms of War Assets. That, and the Quarians (except Koris) were real jerks in ME3. No contest.

Modifié par Epsilon330, 17 mars 2013 - 06:57 .

[Khelish]

TS2Aggie wrote...

The Quarian government made a mistake. They went about it the wrong way.

---

For the record, all of the Geth research was fully within the Council's law. It was a mistake when the Geth turned into AI's.

---

No matter how you slice it, no matter who attacked who first, killing billions of innocent lives is not self-defense. Both commited wrongs. The Geth are not the innocent party here.

[Aggie Punbot]

Khelish wrote...

The Quarian government made a mistake. They went about it the wrong way.

---

For the record, all of the Geth research was fully within the Council's law. It was a mistake when the Geth turned into AI's.

---

No matter how you slice it, no matter who attacked who first, killing billions of innocent lives is not self-defense. Both commited wrongs. The Geth are not the innocent party here.

They absolutely did, yes. We agree there.

Nope, Tali even admitted in ME1 that they were skirting around the council's laws regarding AI research, using legal loopholes and excuses to get around the laws. The result is the geth.

It absolutely is self defense since the quarians threatened to exterminate the geth entirely. The fault there, I suspect, lies again with the quarian military likely putting out the order that "the geth have rebelled, we need to stop them." They didn't "rebel" at all; they were fighting for the right to continue existing. The geth killed the quarians that attacked them, and the quarians attacked the geth because they were probably told that the geth attacked first (which they did not). See the problem? The quarians caused the problem in the first place and then made it worse by lying to their population about the geth "going rogue."

Besides, we all know who would win the fight anyways.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 17 mars 2013 - 07:05 .

[silverexile17s]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Khelish wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

That's actually true, though. The geth were, in fact, attacked by the quarians for no valid reason.

You know that ban the Council has on AI? Yeah, the Quarian's reaction to the Geth had something to do with fear of how the Council would react if they discovered AI's.

Yes, things like that tend to happen when you operate against council laws with the justification of: 'It wasn't AI research, not really..." I'd imagine that if they had simply come clean to the council and admitted their guilt (and not attacked the geth first), things would have turned out a hell of a lot differently. They may still have gotten kicked out of the council (debatable), but they'd still have their homeworld as well as a sapient race of machines that made their lives a lot easier. Other races may very well have been flocking to the quarians and geth for their vastly superior technical knowledge instead of treating them like the lepers of the galaxy. Instead, they panicked and tried to commit genocide in an effort to mask their crime of illegal AI research. We all know how that turned out.

That being said, if the quarians are so determined to kill themselves off in a hopeless fight against the geth, let them. If I have to choose between two sides of a war, I'm going to side with the ones who didn't start it and have actively tried to cease hostilities (I.E. not the quarians).

Actively tried? How is that when the geth never came from out of the Veil and let everyone hate them? You can't just say that this was all the quarian's fault. The geth may have reacted in self-defence, but the did nothing of the sort in actively fixing the public image of them.

[Aggie Punbot]

They have no obligation to fix the public image of them; they wanted to be left alone. Legion even states as such in ME2.

[Khelish]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Nope, Tali even admitted in ME1 that they were skirting around the council's laws regarding AI research, using legal loopholes and excuses to get around the laws. The result is the geth.

Wrong. They did not "skirt" around the laws. They merely added and added slightly, within the laws.

"The quarians kept their programming as limited as that of any VI, nothing close to an AI, remaining mindful of the Citadel Council's laws against artificial intelligence. But as the quarians gradually modified the geth to do more complex tasks, developing a sophisticated neural network, these changes altered the geth to such an extent that they became sentient."

Tali's dialogue says no such thing as you claim, if she does, I never got it.

EDIT: Tali does say they were skirting the bounds of the law, while remaining legal. Still, no excuses and legal loopholes are mentioned.

EDIT 2: Skirting bounds of the law while staying within the law is not wrong. The only reason the Geth gained AI status, is because of the nueral networking when they were in close proximity. Their research stayed inside the legal bounds.

It absolutely is self defense since the quarians threatened to exterminate the geth entirely. The fault there, I suspect, lies again with the quarian military likely putting out the order that "the geth have rebelled, we need to stop them." They didn't "rebel" at all; they were fighting for the right to continue existing. The geth killed the quarians that attacked them, and the quarians attacked the geth because they were probably told that the geth attacked first (which they did not). See the problem? The quarians caused the problem in the first place and then made it worse by lying to their population about the geth "going rogue." 

Now this, is all headcanon, on both parts.

You say the Geth only killed people with guns, I say BS. Military to non-combatant ratio dictates the Geth killed unarmed people.

Agree to disagree.

Modifié par Khelish, 17 mars 2013 - 07:28 .

[Apple Lantern]

No. I'd choose the Quarians, for more than just Tali's sake. I'd also pick them because how am I supposed to know the Reapers won't be able to suddenly take control of them during the Battle for Earth? They were using Reaper code, for goodness sake!

[LegionofRannoch]

as i see it, i wouldnt doom an entire species and culture for their unintentional past mistakes.
sounds hypocritical, but geth are still in their infancy..they dont have much of a culture, i wouldn't sacrifice an existing culture for one that was made by accident..funny how reapers are the symbol of cultural advancement.. taking out the existing cultures and letting new ones grow.

still, the reapers are wrong and so is sacrificing quarian culture for geth intelligence.



my name stands for their unity, but if i had to choose i would pick the quarians.

Modifié par LegionofRannoch, 17 mars 2013 - 07:18 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Actually, no. Without peace between Quarians and Geth as an option, I'd wipe out the Geth without a second thought, for precisely the reasons listed.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Geth Prime > Tali

Even if you don't trust the Geth, you can pick the Destroy option at the end. While yes, it is more beneficial to keep the Quarians alive, but you will have a MUCH harder fight.

Sacrifice the Quarians for the rest of the galaxy. Keeping the Quarians alive and destroying the Geth is pretty stupid. You want to DEFEAT the Reapers, not lose to them. And to not lose, means you must have power.

I hope none of you become military leaders or any type of leader that has the responsability of lives in the near future 

Modifié par ZeCollectorDestroya, 17 mars 2013 - 07:31 .

[Fayfel]

Khelish wrote...

You say the Geth only killed people with guns, I say BS. Military to non-combatant ratio dictates the Geth killed unarmed people.

Per Chris L'Etoile on the old forums ( the guy who wrote it ), the vast majority of the quarian population was alive when the Migrant Fleet abandoned them. Legion ( written by Chris L'Etoile ) states at one point in ME2 that the conflict ended with the departure of the Migrant Fleet. Geth may have let the population that had grown dependant upon them die ( which they would view as the quarians choice ), but it's very unlikely they went out of their way to butcher the non-combatant population.

At least this is how it was. Chris didn't write for me3 and it shows.

[LegionofRannoch]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Geth Prime > Tali

Even if you don't trust the Geth, you can pick the Destroy option at the end. While yes, it is more beneficial to keep the Quarians alive, but you will have a MUCH harder fight.

Sacrifice the Quarians for the rest of the galaxy. Keeping the Quarians alive and destroying the Geth is pretty stupid. You want to DEFEAT the Reapers, not lose to them. And to not lose, means you must have power.

I hope none of you become military leaders or any type of leader that has the responsability of lives in the near future 

listen to yourself, youre indoctrinated!

[G Kevin]

Sacré bleu.

The Geth wanted Reaper code to gain a higher sentience. According to the ME wiki, the code just speeds up the Geth processing power. So, why would I risk an entire race with their own culture and history, just so another race can get process faster?

If I remember correctly, it depends on how you handled the heretic Geth on ME2. If you destroyed them, the Quarian fleet is the strongest in War Assets.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

^^Well you can't win a fight without power/strength. The low EMS ending proves this, in fact, life itself proves this.

EA is a wonderful company.

Modifié par ZeCollectorDestroya, 17 mars 2013 - 07:41 .

[G Kevin]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

^^Well you can't win a fight without power/strength. The low EMS ending proves this, in fact, life itself proves this.

EA is a wonderful company.

What?

So I did some rough math, yes, you get more war assets if you destroyed the heretics in ME2 and sided with Quarians in ME3.

Geth ~ 660
Quarians ~ 800

Somebody can check my math, here: Geth War Assets, Quarian War Assets. It's 3:51 AM, I am tired.

I discounted the interviews and added as if the heretics were destroyed.

Modifié par G Kevin, 17 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[S.A.K]

Simple answer : F*ck no!

Long answer :

I'd side with the Vorcha before siding with the Geth.

Many ppl bring the point the the Geth were defending themselves. Its shown that they are ready to go to any lenght to protect themselves. Siding with the reapers even after rewriting/destroying the heretic shows that they are ready to screw the whole galaxy in order to survive. And they will turn on organics the first instant they feel treatened.

The Heretics were ruining everyones image of what the Geth want. But the true Geth did nothing to change the out look of organics. Not a single attept at communicating was made in almost 300 years. In ME2, Legion was the first one to talk about the heretics and that was because Heretics were going to brain wash the real Geth and they felt threatened. What if the reapers invaded back in ME1 with the help of the Heretics? The true Geth was just hiding like cowards.

In the Geth server mission, it was clear that Legion was trying to white wash the Geth and trying to convince the commander that the Quarians were the bad guys. It just showed the bad stuff the Quarians did and Geth being the good guys. And what about the Geth killing billions of Quarian civiliance?

In the end, by siding with Geth, player looses 2 squad mates to the price of one. I cannot betray Tali who was with the commander from the start while the Geth was trying to kill him. Plus if the player chooses destroy (which most did), siding with Geth was pretty much pointless.

I always choose destroy or kill the Geth earlier. They will always be dangarous to the galaxy.

[Megaton_Hope]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Sacrifice the Quarians for the rest of the galaxy. Keeping the Quarians alive and destroying the Geth is pretty stupid. You want to DEFEAT the Reapers, not lose to them. And to not lose, means you must have power.

I hope none of you become military leaders or any type of leader that has the responsability of lives in the near future 

What, I defeated the Reapers with few losses my first go. (Although I did make peace before I decided Destroy was best, in terms of protection from the Reapers.)

Thing is, the Geth are a major threat to organic life, and not just the Alliance or the Quarians. If they can't be reasoned with, as a willingness to make peace with the Quarians (the only organics to whom they really owe anything) demonstrates, then they are a danger, not an asset.

The Rachni slide into the "danger, not an asset" area too, after the queen gets captured and tinkered with. It's only the way the game was written that makes saving the specific queen you can rescue on Noveria an acceptable decision.

[DeinonSlayer]

Amakiir wrote...

Khelish wrote...

You say the Geth only killed people with guns, I say BS. Military to non-combatant ratio dictates the Geth killed unarmed people.

Per Chris L'Etoile on the old forums ( the guy who wrote it ), the vast majority of the quarian population was alive when the Migrant Fleet abandoned them. Legion ( written by Chris L'Etoile ) states at one point in ME2 that the conflict ended with the departure of the Migrant Fleet. Geth may have let the population that had grown dependant upon them die ( which they would view as the quarians choice ), but it's very unlikely they went out of their way to butcher the non-combatant population.

At least this is how it was. Chris didn't write for me3 and it shows.

That's self-contradictory. Almost as if lifted from two different versions. If conflict ended with the vast majority of the Quarian population still alive, how did those left behind manage to die off? Also, it conflicts with the description of the war given in Mass Effect: Revelation.

"The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile."

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 mars 2013 - 07:57 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Nope.

Especially since in my primary Shepard's continuity the so-called heretics were destroyed, as opposed to being rewritten. The quarian fleet is simply a better deal in the OP scenario.

[Megaton_Hope]

Wait, who decided that the Quarians have a population of over a hundred million on the Flotilla? Makes no kind of sense - depending on scavenged and jury-rigged equipment and resources, and with compromised immune systems, and in limited space, they should run out of:

Necessary gases, water, food, and medicine, in order of importance, on a regular basis. Not the right conditions for a population boom.

[DeinonSlayer]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Wait, who decided that the Quarians have a population of over a hundred million on the Flotilla? Makes no kind of sense - depending on scavenged and jury-rigged equipment and resources, and with compromised immune systems, and in limited space, they should run out of:

Necessary gases, water, food, and medicine, in order of importance, on a regular basis. Not the right conditions for a population boom.

It's 17 million according to the Codex and in-game dialogue. Pre-Morning War, they numbered in the "billions," plural, though the figure doesn't get more specific than that.

[ConanTheLeader]

Save robots over actual living beings? No.

Bioware humanised the Geth and wanted you to feel bad for them but they are still just robots.

[silverexile17s]

TS2Aggie wrote...

They have no obligation to fix the public image of them; they wanted to be left alone. Legion even states as such in ME2.

If that's true, what obligation do the quarians have to do the same? You can't call the kettle black on that. The geth never own their mistakes either, so you can't bash the quarians for it when the geth do the same.
And that isolation was enforced at literal gunpoint, in that they obliterated anyone that went into the Veil, Sure, their prior experiance with organics wasn't an incentive to build relations, but they were too harsh in turn. They didn't breed any sympathy for their sutuation by destroying unarmed diplomatic ships.

[silverexile17s]

ConanTheLeader wrote...

Save robots over actual living beings? No.

Bioware humanised the Geth and wanted you to feel bad for them but they are still just robots.

Now that isn't fair. The geth are living beings as much as we are. They evolved from little beginnings like organics, had questions of exiatance like organics. Just because they are in a different form then what we are sued to, doesn't mean they aren't alive.

[Dr_Extrem]

difficult question.

the geth are now partially reaper tech. the quariens shot at the geth dreadnought, while i was still on board.

both sides dont win prizes for sympathy.