4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Nykara]

I would pick the Geth based purely on a moral basis and nothing more. The Quarrians, like everyone else knew the Reapers where coming and yet they chose that moment to go to war with the Geth? They are the ones who where in the wrong, so even if there was no paragon interrupts that allowed peace between the two, based on moral grounds I would have sided with the Geth, been sad at the loss of Talli but done what was right.

[Reorte]

Rhayak wrote...

Damn, them hips...plus the Geth are dead one way or the other, so I might as well save one species.

How miopic.

If you're metagaming and know that you're going to pick Destroy though it makes sense. Better one alive than both dead.

[ghost9191]

i would side with the qurians. i destroy the heretics in ME2 so qurians have more to offer. that and geth are more of a risk

[Reorte]

Nykara wrote...

I would pick the Geth based purely on a moral basis and nothing more. The Quarrians, like everyone else knew the Reapers where coming and yet they chose that moment to go to war with the Geth? They are the ones who where in the wrong, so even if there was no paragon interrupts that allowed peace between the two, based on moral grounds I would have sided with the Geth, been sad at the loss of Talli but done what was right.

How many of the quarians were in full agreement of that? Sounds a bit like the sort of argument some terrorists use to justify random attacks against civilians ('coz they're government attacked something of ours and since it's a democracy everyone is therefore responsible).

The geth, on the other hand, don't have any individuality, or are effectively one large individual, or a small number of ones that split, merge, and rejoin, or something like that. What we know of them suggests that they are probably all actively involved and fully accepting of the choices they make - and are more connected with the original geth and their actions. They are both the same ones and not the same ones, I can't really put it into words; this trying to get my head around it is what makes the geth so fascinating and why it was a great shame someone thought that it was a good idea to "improve" them by making them all individuals like everyone else.

[Calibrations Expert]

I went in planning on siding with the Quarians, but got peace because I'm uber pro.

I found out afterwards that Tali commits suicide if you chose Geth, so never in a million years will I choose Geth in any playthrough.

Modifié par Calibrations Expert, 17 mars 2013 - 01:20 .

[S.A.K]

These are the reasons I always side with Quarians.

Many ppl bring the point the the Geth were defending themselves. Its shown that they are ready to go to any lenght to protect themselves. Siding with the reapers even after rewriting/destroying the heretic shows that they are ready to screw the whole galaxy in order to survive. And they will turn on organics the first instant they feel treatened.

The Heretics were ruining everyones image of what the Geth want. But the true Geth did nothing to change the out look of organics. Not a single attept at communicating was made in almost 300 years. In ME2, Legion was the first one to talk about the heretics and that was because Heretics were going to brain wash the real Geth and they felt threatened. What if the reapers invaded back in ME1 with the help of the Heretics? The true Geth was just hiding like cowards.

In the Geth server mission, it was clear that Legion was trying to white wash the Geth and trying to convince the commander that the Quarians were the bad guys. It just showed the bad stuff the Quarians did and Geth being the good guys. And what about the Geth killing billions of Quarian civiliance?

In the end, by siding with Geth, player looses 2 squad mates to the price of one. I cannot betray Tali who was with the commander from the start while the Geth was trying to kill him. Plus if the player chooses destroy (which most did), siding with Geth was pretty much pointless.

I'd always choose destroy or kill the Geth earlier. They will always be dangarous to the galaxy.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[Kesak12]

No, I would never betray Tali. I always liked Quarians better than Gethanyway.

[Reorte]

S.A.K wrote...

I'd always choose destroy or kill the Geth earlier. They will always be dangarous to the galaxy.

Correct me if I am wrong.

For always? Possibly. Because of their isolation they have remained rather ignorant; Legion talks about perspective from time to time and they've never had their own perspective challenged until Shepard, and haven't really developed much either on their own. There are hints that their stagnation will end if they get more involved with the rest of the galaxy, and that they can start growing as a civilisation. The geth deserve a chance although I'm not prepared to hold the rest of the galaxy hostage (or worse) just to give it to them. There's a risk that they'll be dangerous to the galaxy but not a certainty.

[NCommand]

The self defense argument keeps surfacing now and then, but I think it's important to remember that the Quarians started shutting down the Geth because they were afraid, they were afraid what would happen now that the Geth had achieved sentience, and they were right

If the council found out the Geth had become real AIs the Quarians would again be forced to shut them down, and the outcome would again be the same, almost complete annihilation of the Quarian population, the Quarians only acted to ensure the safety of their people, but they were already too late and suffered the largest racial cleansing until the reapers show up

[Megaton_Hope]

Rhayak wrote...

Exactly.

If he is killed during the Suicide Mission in ME2, he attempts to upload his software, but is unable to find any recipient, since you're in the galactic core, before his critically damaged platform shuts down.

So he dies. Permanently. And there will never be another like him, because no other Geth can live what he lived.

What I had in mind was actually his dramatic upload to make the other Geth true sentients, which actually consists of "his" personality being uploaded and shared with all the other Geth. The Geth Prime tells you that he has died, which doesn't make a lot of sense, because every Geth you meet from that point is composed partly of Legion, even if Legion weren't running on essentially the same code base as any Geth you meet anyway.

Except the Heretics, who are like Legion with a rounding error.

[GoldFlsh]

I picked Quarians. Really, the choice makes the end of Rannoch so much more compelling to me. There's no conflict if you just get peace...I'm not sure I could pick anything besides the Quarians, though. It doesn't feel right condemning an entire organic race to death. Whereas my Shepard doesn't see the geth as anything more than VIs even if she trusts Legion. So she'd pick the life forms over the robots any day.

However, it wasn't exactly an easy decision, you have a chance to change your mind during the dialogue. So she at first told Legion to upload the code, and told Tali to talk down the Admirals, however they didn't listen so she asked Legion to stop, since she can't just let the Quarians die...the cutscene after that was awesome.


EDIT: Here's a question: Do people -really- pick one or the other based on which one's war assets are bigger at the end? What does that matter, it's hardly a difference, and getting the max war assets you need is so much cake. Just pretend your Shepard is picking one or the other based on military strength if you want to go the pragmatic route I'd wager the geth would bring much more firepower and even better engineering support for the crucible. There's a reason they win once the reaper code is installed.

Modifié par GoldFlsh, 17 mars 2013 - 02:25 .

[Slayer299]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

With no choice for peace between them than that's easy...the Quarians and not the Geth who I feel no sympathy for in choosing between them.

The problem with this is that anyone new to the series will only see the Geth painted as 'fluffy bunnies of love, peace, innocence and happiness who were ruthlessly attacked by their overlords' by Bioware in ME3 and so anything they did against the Quarians was justified. So I can honestly see a lot of people killing off the Quarians unfortunately.

That's actually true, though. The geth were, in fact, attacked by the quarians for no valid reason. The geth never instigated violence towards the quarians, it was the other way around. The geth only fought back in self defense; you can't blame them for not wanting to be exterminated.

I didn't mean the reverse for the Quarians, since they did fire the first shot as it were, just that both sides were wrong to start, and the whitewash for the Geth's actions in ME3 was quite ridiculous. It's clear that the Quarians struck first to avoid the very thing they ending up with, the geth fighting them, but also that the Geth not differentiate between civilians and military during the MW.  

What we got in the Geth Consensus mission was just the writers way of demonizing the Quarians, because  they wanted you to side with the Geth and not the Quarians. 

[ruggly]

Hm, tough choice. It's hard to condemn all of the Quarians based on the decision of a few, namely Gerrel and Xen. We do know that at least the civilian fleet never wanted to go to war.

Legion, while very interesting and does provide good insight to the Geth, also turns the them into a bunch of Pinocchios. Plus the Geth shooting down anyone that came into their territory does win them many points.

The Geth would provide valuable insight into how to treat AIs, if they had ended their isolationist ways, but they're a very young race, while the Quarians a are much, much older civilization.

So I'd most likely save the Quarians, just based on what I know.

[Reorte]

Slayer299 wrote...

What we got in the Geth Consensus mission was just the writers way of demonizing the Quarians, because  they wanted you to side with the Geth and not the Quarians. 

Previous games had the quarian view of the geth, now it's the geth's turn.

[SpamBot2000]

Probably not. Organic solidarity. Justice has nothing to do with it.

[Auld Wulf]

Slayer299 wrote...

[...] but also that the Geth not differentiate between civilians and military during the MW.

I know lying makes xenophobia easier, but that's a lie.

The geth consensus shows us that it was the quarian military who was ready to execute any quarian civilian in order to get at the geth. There was clearly an uprising, where the civilians stood against the quarian military, and the quarian military won by killing many of their own. It was only when the geth felt they had absolutely no other choice, when the quarian military were about to gun down harmless agricultural geth, did the first pick up a gun.

This is one thing I'll never understand about humanity -- lying to justify. I've heard lies told to justify xenophobic hatred against the geth, the krogan, the Reapers, and anyone else considered 'undesirable' and 'inhuman.' It makes me wonder what lies were told about black slaves to make them seem more inhuman back when that was a thing. Personally, I find xenophobic hatred to be distasteful.

Earlier in the thread I said that I couldn't make a call between the geth and the quarians, because the only monsters I've seen were Gerrel and Xen. Koris, the civilians I met, and the civilians in the consensus made it quite clear that the quarian civilians are quite sane and ultimately decent people. People who didn't want to go to war. But the quarian military are the sorts of people who'd kill their own to get at their enemies. Even the ridiculous justification of strapping giant guns to liveships just to make them targets, so the civilians would die for the military by becoming targets.

Both EDI and Legion point out that if Gerrel hadn't ordered massive guns strapped to the liveships, then the geth would have completely ignored them as non-combatant targets. Do you know what would have happened then? The geth would have wiped out the quarian military and they would have left the civilians be. A peace would have been brokered, then. Think about it. Gerrel knew exactly what he was doing by ordering guns strapped to the civilian ships. This is a war run by two people -- Gerrel and Xen.

Gerrel because he's unable to stop fighting, and Xen because she wants more slaves.

I can't make the call between the quarians and the geth because most of them are decent people who'd live in peace, given the chance. But I what I will say is that given empirical, canon evidence, I wish I could have thrown Gerrel and Xen out of the Normandy's airlock, because that would have stopped the war then and there.

Still, you'll always have people who'll lie to justify their xenophobic hatred... Like they're indoctrinated, or something.

Thankfully I will never fully comprehend or share your hatred.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 17 mars 2013 - 03:21 .

[Rhayak]

Megaton_Hope wrote...
The Geth Prime tells you that he has died, which doesn't make a lot of sense, because every Geth you meet from that point is composed partly of Legion, even if Legion weren't running on essentially the same code base as any Geth you meet anyway.

Except the Heretics, who are like Legion with a rounding error.

My guess is, spreading the Reaper code to his kin altered his software so much that he effectively stopped being. He is present in other Geth, but not as Legion.

It's quite similar, if not identical, to Shepard's essence being infused in all lifeforms during Synthesis. It does mean that there's a little of Shepard in all of us, but not that he's still alive.

[Dean_the_Young]

Reorte wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

What we got in the Geth Consensus mission was just the writers way of demonizing the Quarians, because  they wanted you to side with the Geth and not the Quarians. 

Previous games had the quarian view of the geth, now it's the geth's turn.

The Quarian views of the Geth include accepting their own complicity in creating the problem, and past sins. The Geth never did in the narrative: their culpability in the Quarian genocide is never confronted, nor is the fact that their isolation and lack of allies short of the Reapers is due to their own hundreds of years of murderous isolationism.

Heck, ME3 doesn't even address the structural reliance the Quarians have that makes them need Rannoch in the first place: thier biological dependence, the vulnerability of the Fleet, the fact that the fleet if breaking down and reaching the end of its viability. To listen to ME3, the Quarians are at Rannoch because of historical grievances and nothing more.

[Da Don Giovanni]

Rhayak wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...
The Geth Prime tells you that he has died, which doesn't make a lot of sense, because every Geth you meet from that point is composed partly of Legion, even if Legion weren't running on essentially the same code base as any Geth you meet anyway.

Except the Heretics, who are like Legion with a rounding error.

My guess is, spreading the Reaper code to his kin altered his software so much that he effectively stopped being. He is present in other Geth, but not as Legion.

It's quite similar, if not identical, to Shepard's essence being infused in all lifeforms during Synthesis. It does mean that there's a little of Shepard in all of us, but not that he's still alive.

Just imagine if legion had of been a Prime/Jugg.  Whoa....

[Auld Wulf]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Quarian views of the Geth include accepting their own complicity in creating the problem, and past sins. The Geth never did in the narrative: their culpability in the Quarian genocide is never confronted, nor is the fact that their isolation and lack of allies short of the Reapers is due to their own hundreds of years of murderous isolationism.

What the quarians didn't tell you is how many civilians the quarian military killed in the Morning War to get at the geth. Considering that one of the scenes represented a warzone with quarian civilians fighting for the geth, it appears that the quarian military were responsible for killing more quarians than the geth were. And that's what they don't tell you. That's hardly being honest, now is it? Again, it's lying to fuel xenophobic hatred, and I can't understand that. Nor do I share your hatred.

The quarian civilians were decent people because they fought a war to protect the geth. So I don't hate the geth or the quarian civilians. You're permitted to do whatever you want, but I can't help but see the lies and intellectual dishonesty present in your hatred. I guess to have a clear head, one must hate neither the quarians or the geth.

As for their isolationism and so-called 'murderous' nature? That's intellectual dishonesty and we both know it. You use it to fuel your hatred, but I have a clear head. See, I remember that the Heretics were responsible for most of that, and that the reason the geth remained in isolation is because most of them were downright afraid of organics after their dealings with the quarians, believing fellow machines to be more logical and reasonable. Let's be honest (I know it's hard)... If you were constantly being attacked and killed by a species, how easy would it be for you to reach out to the species attacking and killing you to ask for help?

To the geth, before Legion coalesced, the "organics" were one species. And the geth didn't even want to kill the organics despite teh organics wanting to kill them. All the geth ever wanted was to survive. All the quarian civilians ever wanted was to live in peace. Take away the quarian military and you have peace on all sides.

But again, you're lying to justify your xenophobic hatred. Hatred I will never share or understand.

To be honest, I feel justified in thinking of myself as a better person than you. It's funny, really. You're like the quarian military, and I'm like the quarian civilians.

Edit: It saddens me that most people don't realise that the Morning War wasn't about the geth versus the quarians. The Morning War was about the quarian military versus the geth and the quarian civilians.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 17 mars 2013 - 03:41 .

[Wayning_Star]

fear of survival as a modem of motivation. Why learn?

[o Ventus]

By choosing the geth, who are the 2 squadmates that you lose? Tali is 1 person.

Also, just to put things into context (ignoring arbitrary EMS values and looking at it from an in-universe perspective), the finale of Rannoch is the end of the 2nd act. After Rannoch, things begin to go downhill for Shepard on Thessia, and the situation becomes much more desperate. You need all the military might you can get at this point. You can take either the geth (who don't require food or air or sleep, are functionally immortal and never tire, and have some of the most advanced technology available to the current cycle), or you can take the quarians (who have an enormous fleet that just so happens to be made out of ships that are falling apart at the seams, a terribly small military, and the highest-maintenance infantry in the current cycle that rely on second-hand equipment).

It's the difference between a BB gun and a real firearm.

[Wayning_Star]

I save them both so I don't worry about 'what if's'..lol

[DeinonSlayer]

o Ventus wrote...

By choosing the geth, who are the 2 squadmates that you lose? Tali is 1 person.

Also, just to put things into context (ignoring arbitrary EMS values and looking at it from an in-universe perspective), the finale of Rannoch is the end of the 2nd act. After Rannoch, things begin to go downhill for Shepard on Thessia, and the situation becomes much more desperate. You need all the military might you can get at this point. You can take either the geth (who don't require food or air or sleep, are functionally immortal and never tire, and have some of the most advanced technology available to the current cycle), or you can take the quarians (who have an enormous fleet that just so happens to be made out of ships that are falling apart at the seams, a terribly small military, and the highest-maintenance infantry in the current cycle that rely on second-hand equipment).

It's the difference between a BB gun and a real firearm.

The Geth excel at combat, yes, but you were sent to recruit a fleet to provide logistical support. The Quarians outstrip the Geth at this.

[Karlone123]

Nope, the Geth can supposedly be rebuilt if they were missed that badly. They are machines after all and machines can easily be replaced with a more updated model, Quarian aren't machines, they're an organic species that cannot be replaced. Seriously, what if the choice was between choosing to wipe out all Humans or all Geth? Wiping out all Humans would never be allowed. Plus killing Geth is like breaking equipment.