4712 réponses à ce sujet

[tevix]

@Rip

So to make sure that no organics get mad and kill synthetics you kill the synthetics so they can't be killed by organics?

Hmmm....

[Rip504]

tevix wrote...

@Rip

So to make sure that no organics get mad and kill synthetics you kill the synthetics so they can't be killed by organics?

Hmmm....

Nope. The Quarians did it. I am the "Hero" who saved the Quarians. The galaxy is better off with a least one of these two great civilizations. I chose to save one,rather then letting both of them die.

:innocent:

[Argolas]

You know what is striking about this conflict? The Quarians can be convinced to back off, the Geth can't. You either let Legion upload REAPER codes to ALL Geth or kill him. My Shepard can't metagame that this would go well and has no reason to believe it would, so he is not going to let it happen.

[tevix]

@Rip

"...because some fearful or hateful organic attacks a synthetic."

So...again...you kill synthetics to make sure organics don't kill synthetics.

You have to admit, that does sound a little suspect =p

[S.A.K]

tevix wrote...

@Rip

"...because some fearful or hateful organic attacks a synthetic."

So...again...you kill synthetics to make sure organics don't kill synthetics.

You have to admit, that does sound a little suspect =p

Haha. I got my own way of doing things. Make peace. Use Geth in war effort. Pick destroy...

[Rip504]

S.A.K wrote...

tevix wrote...

@Rip

"...because some fearful or hateful organic attacks a synthetic."

So...again...you kill synthetics to make sure organics don't kill synthetics.

You have to admit, that does sound a little suspect =p

Haha. I got my own way of doing things. Make peace. Use Geth in war effort. Pick destroy...

+1 (The Geth also advance the Quarian civilization by years. "Geth have done in weeks,what would have taken us years.")

Edit: Sorry it is late.


Cool.  That part of the comment was made towards the comments about organics prejudice,hate,fear,and etc towards synthetics. It is a known potential threat by all,while the Quarians do not hold this same threat. Also "I" do not kill the Synthetics. "I" save the Quarians. If one is worried at a potential Organic vs Synthetic conflict or the Catalyst statements,I am simply pointing out that this scenario does not exist with the Quarians surviving. Still not the point.

The point is I "save" one of these two races,instead of letting them both die. As I feel the galaxy is better of with a least one of the two. I also have my promise to keep.

 If I am going to pick one of the two,while knowing the Geth are going to die. As I am looking back on my decision for peace and deciding whom I would have saved,"if" I could have only saved one. Well since the Geth are going to die,it only makes sense and is only possible for me to save the Quarians.

Of course I am going to make this choice based on "my" personal preference of the two. It is a question of personal preference,since my choice is to create peace,then choose Destroy. Which is a very legit outcome. We are talking in the "what ifs",so the choice can be made from personal preference alone.

I need no justification other then I prefer the Quarians over the Geth.

Modifié par Rip504, 01 avril 2013 - 09:05 .

[S.A.K]

^ That plus we can't ignore Tali. The Geth would have screwed the galaxy back in ME1 if she didn't bring that recording. And you must be a real dick to make her watch the destruction of her species. She stay with Shepard and helped him/her from the start while the Geth were trying to kill him. Ok the Heretics were trying to kill him and the rest of the Geth let it happen. So I just let the Geth die. Fair enough right?
:innocent:

[shodiswe]

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

tevix wrote...

@SAK

Permanent deactivation is the same as death to a synthetic. The geth were sentient, they should have attempted communication instead of just ASSUMING the geth would attack.

The geth attack because their survival was threatened. They didn't attack because they were being used for labor.

Secondly, if you deny a sentient individual rights on account of it not being the same race as you, that is a fine example of prejudice.

It's funny, we make movies and stories about machines rebelling because we freak out and try to kill them because we are afraid they might attack.

Yet when we create sentient machines we will make the same mistake we make movies about.

Ok thanks for clearing that out. Guess humans are mostly prejudice. Hope we don't end up with skynet... or Geth. Tends to be a bad day.

It would probably be more like this.

Synthetic: Hello fellow lifeforms! We would like to establish diplomatic conections with your people.

Human: That tincan is talking, shoot it!

Synthetic: No please! Were unarmed we jus......

*the sound of enthusiastic gunfire*

Human: Examine the remains and see if you can track down the rest of them, they need to be destroyed before they become a threat.

...Actually, that really DID happen.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYqx51bdcDw
Play from 1:27.

Problem is, the geth did the opposate. They killed anyone that came to negotiate with them.

They probably learned that from their former masters. Like VI Legion says, the Quarians can't be trusted they keep lying and deceiving. I guess they didn't trust other organics more than they trusted the Quarians.

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

^ That plus we can't ignore Tali. The Geth would have screwed the galaxy back in ME1 if she didn't bring that recording. And you must be a real dick to make her watch the destruction of her species. She stay with Shepard and helped him/her from the start while the Geth were trying to kill him. Ok the Heretics were trying to kill him and the rest of the Geth let it happen. So I just let the Geth die. Fair enough right?
:innocent:

It's more than that, it pretty mcuh requiers you to kill their leader to accomplish their destruction. So it's more like lending your hand in their destruction than simply letting it happen. If Shepard does nothing then the Quarians die and the Geth survive.

[FoxShadowblade]

Bit late to this party, but here we go:

In the game, I will always strive for peace between both. And then I choose Destroy. Every time.

If I was presented with a similar situation in real life? Organic life would be a higher priority than Synthetic. Yes, the Geth are incredibly advanced, possibly to the point of having souls. Oh well, it's still a machine to me. Sounds incredibly heartless, but that is just how my priorities go.

[shodiswe]

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

tevix wrote...

@SAK

Permanent deactivation is the same as death to a synthetic. The geth were sentient, they should have attempted communication instead of just ASSUMING the geth would attack.

The geth attack because their survival was threatened. They didn't attack because they were being used for labor.

Secondly, if you deny a sentient individual rights on account of it not being the same race as you, that is a fine example of prejudice.

It's funny, we make movies and stories about machines rebelling because we freak out and try to kill them because we are afraid they might attack.

Yet when we create sentient machines we will make the same mistake we make movies about.

Ok thanks for clearing that out. Guess humans are mostly prejudice. Hope we don't end up with skynet... or Geth. Tends to be a bad day.

Still, look at Council policy. It states that A.I. are not to be created illegally. The really sad thing is that if that ****** policy didn't exist, the quarians wouldn't have panicked when the geth's possible sentiance threatened it. Had that law bannong the Creation of A.I.s not existed, the quarians may have taken the geth in. I think it was less prejudice and more blind fear, of both what the geth could do, and what the Council would do if they themselves found out..

That law also made C-sec shoot any synthetics requesting an audence with the council. Just watch the council archives. There is no way for a synthetic to establish peaceful contact, they will be shot or hunted down on sight.

Well, that happened in 1896 CE. The SAME year as the Morning War. Take that how you will.
And again, that just proves that the Council are unreasonable dicks. The quarians were probably pissing themselves thinking about what the Council would do to them if they found out that the geth had even a rudimentery self-awareness. They lost their S*** and panicked. And you can't blame them for thinking about the wellfare of 2 billion people vs a race that no one even considered alive at the time.

Same year? I'm not that good with years, maybe it was related, maybe those AI's were related to the Geth or were Geth who had taken over mech bodies to petition the council.
If the council's guards "assasinated" the diplomatic envoys of the Synthetics then I can't immagine the Geth would respond better to others entering their space.
Did that happen before the Quarians were driven of Rannoch or after? Maybe they asked the council for recognition after the Quarians tried to shut them down, then they got shot down by the gouncils guards.. Which in the minds of the Geth proved that all Organics were against them and wouldn't give them a fair chance.

[shodiswe]

It really can't be a coincidence if the council got petition a from Synthetics delivered the same year that the Geth rebelled and eventualy killed or drove off the Quarians from their homeworld in selfdefence..

Maybe the councils reaction is what triggered the "swift" massacre of the Quarrians in the Geths liberation war.

Maybe the Geth and synthetics did try to work out a peaceful solution, maybe that's what that council recording shows. They tried to negotiate for peace and their equal rights and they were killed in the atempt. In that case It's not their fault that no progress has been made in 300 years, the Quarians and the council are the ones that initiated the isolation and showed the Geth and all other synthetics to follow that Organics can't be reasoned with.

So yes, seeign that, the Quarians needs to die if peace can't be accomplished... Maybe the death of the Quarians will make thigns more "right", but really peace is what's needed or you will have a conflict like the starwars one where Sith and Jedi kill eachother for all eternity jsut because that's what they have always been doing, it's the natural order of things.

Modifié par shodiswe, 01 avril 2013 - 12:27 .

[S.A.K]

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

^ That plus we can't ignore Tali. The Geth would have screwed the galaxy back in ME1 if she didn't bring that recording. And you must be a real dick to make her watch the destruction of her species. She stay with Shepard and helped him/her from the start while the Geth were trying to kill him. Ok the Heretics were trying to kill him and the rest of the Geth let it happen. So I just let the Geth die. Fair enough right?
:innocent:

It's more than that, it pretty mcuh requiers you to kill their leader to accomplish their destruction. So it's more like lending your hand in their destruction than simply letting it happen. If Shepard does nothing then the Quarians die and the Geth survive.

Correction. If Shepard don't get involved, Geth stay under Reaper control and Quarians die. And I don't think that dreadnought would have survived even without Shepard. He just saved a lot of Quarian lives. Quarians did kill a Reaper remember?

[robertthebard]

S.A.K wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

^ That plus we can't ignore Tali. The Geth would have screwed the galaxy back in ME1 if she didn't bring that recording. And you must be a real dick to make her watch the destruction of her species. She stay with Shepard and helped him/her from the start while the Geth were trying to kill him. Ok the Heretics were trying to kill him and the rest of the Geth let it happen. So I just let the Geth die. Fair enough right?
:innocent:

It's more than that, it pretty mcuh requiers you to kill their leader to accomplish their destruction. So it's more like lending your hand in their destruction than simply letting it happen. If Shepard does nothing then the Quarians die and the Geth survive.

Correction. If Shepard don't get involved, Geth stay under Reaper control and Quarians die. And I don't think that dreadnought would have survived even without Shepard. He just saved a lot of Quarian lives. Quarians did kill a Reaper remember?

The Quarians kill a Reaper because Shepard is on the ground painting a target for them to fire at.  They could have probably accomplished it anyway, but the way it's presented, w/out somebody on the ground painting the target, and all the ships tied together to target one ship's target, it probably wouldn't have happened as cheaply as it did.

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

Some animals are self-aware like Dolphins, Elephants and apes are considered self-aware. Guess what, we still treat them like animals. In the Quarian case it wasn't like "Oh that Geth asked if it had a soul. Kill it. Kill it!!!" It was an indication that they they have gained basic self awareness and realized they are using a sapient species as slaves. They were afraid of a rebellion and desided to deactivate and figure something out. Gues they were right about the rebellion part.
In real world, scientists are trying to develop AI to do dangarous and work not suitable for humans. AIs can better adept changing environments. What ever you are thinking that should happen, they will not be treated as equals atleast for some time. It is not prejudice. It is life. You'll have to deal with it.

No there is a difference between intelligent and self aware.  A Dolphin, Elephant or Ape does not ponder whether it has a soul.  It doesn't wonder what happens to it when it dies.  If it will go to heaven or just cease to exist.  Unless I missed som recent breakthrough in science, other animals are intelligent and can be taught to perform complex thoughts but they are not self-aware in the manner I am using the term.

And the point is this, if they could talk to me and in doing so articulate that they do believe in gods and do think they have a soul then I would reconsider my opinion of them.  I would not default to killing them.  And if I did and they instead killed me then that is life.  I did something stupid and I died as a result.

[AlexMBrennan]

A Dolphin, Elephant or Ape does not ponder whether it has a soul. It doesn't wonder what happens to it when it dies. If it will go to heaven or just cease to exist

And just how do you know that? Did you talk to them? On the other hand, I don't ponder whether I have a soul so maybe that criteria is a bit limited.

The Quarians kill a Reaper because Shepard is on the ground painting a target for them to fire at. They could have probably accomplished it anyway, but the way it's presented, w/out somebody on the ground painting the target, and all the ships tied together to target one ship's target, it probably wouldn't have happened as cheaply as it did.

Nope. Without the Normandy's stealth capabilities allowing them To board the dreadnought the quarians would have been torn to pieces in the first engagement.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Some animals are self-aware like Dolphins, Elephants and apes are considered self-aware. Guess what, we still treat them like animals. In the Quarian case it wasn't like "Oh that Geth asked if it had a soul. Kill it. Kill it!!!" It was an indication that they they have gained basic self awareness and realized they are using a sapient species as slaves. They were afraid of a rebellion and desided to deactivate and figure something out. Gues they were right about the rebellion part.
In real world, scientists are trying to develop AI to do dangarous and work not suitable for humans. AIs can better adept changing environments. What ever you are thinking that should happen, they will not be treated as equals atleast for some time. It is not prejudice. It is life. You'll have to deal with it.

No there is a difference between intelligent and self aware.  A Dolphin, Elephant or Ape does not ponder whether it has a soul.  It doesn't wonder what happens to it when it dies.  If it will go to heaven or just cease to exist.  Unless I missed som recent breakthrough in science, other animals are intelligent and can be taught to perform complex thoughts but they are not self-aware in the manner I am using the term.

And the point is this, if they could talk to me and in doing so articulate that they do believe in gods and do think they have a soul then I would reconsider my opinion of them.  I would not default to killing them.  And if I did and they instead killed me then that is life.  I did something stupid and I died as a result.

Not again dude. Some animals are self-aware and it is nothing new. Search a bit for more info. They don't have to ask does this unit have a soul to be considered self-aware. Have occured to you animals can't f*cking talk? As said in game, single geth units are no more intelligent than animals. But they have the ability to talk. And I am not gonna start a religious debate with you.
Ok screw this. Geth have been nothing but trouble sinse the day they started thinking. All they have done so far is killing, killing and some more killing. So I am not gonna even think about siding with those murder machines over Quarians or even Pyjaks for that matter.
<_<

[remydat]

To S.A.K

1. But they were wrong.  There is no denying that.  They attacked a race that had done them no harm.  Admitting that they were wrong for it may result in the Geth admitting to whatever wrong things they did.  That is how you start a dialogue.  Legion fully admits they caused the creators great harm so the Geth are not stupid.  However, it takes two to compromise.

2. And therein lies the problem.  The minute it asks if it has a soul and you know full well you did not program it to ask that, it is no longer equipment.  They wanted to kill them because they knew that the Geth were potentially sentient or on the road to sentience.  They knew there were not just equipment anymore.  

3. When have you seen a nation fight former citizens who cause trouble among their enemies?  The Council Races are their enemies.  They were their enemies from the moment they first banned AI.  Also if the Geth had started a civil war fighting the heretics and Sovereign, do you think the Quarians would refuse to take advantage and attack admist the chaos if they found out about it?  Organics don't risk the safety of their nation to help enemies that would potentially still turn around and attack them while they are trying to help.

3.  Legion was showing the events pre-morning war.  That means the attacks were largely one sided as the morning war doesn't start until the Geth decide to fight back. The only time we see a Geth attack is when that argricultural unit picks up a sniper rifle to defend itself and I presume the only reason we see that is because the implication is that Legion who Shepard remarks is carrying the same sniper rifle was in fact that argricultural unit.  Also, please find me a Quarian account where they explain in detail what occurred during the MW including their crimes.  You are acting like the Quarians were so forthcoming about their crimes.  The only thing they admit to is that they attacked first.  Furthermore Legion does not deny they did the Creators great him and says he accepts the creator's hate.

4. Legion is a machine, I trust his calculations and he has no reason to lie because lying would mean going back to being under Reaper control which is the very thing he betrayed his entire people to rebell against.  So I don't get the logic here.  He just finished helping me kill a sh*t load of Geth and without him the Quarians would like be dead all because he didn't want to be under Reaper control and you want me to believe the Reaper code is dangerous because it might make him Reaper controlled?

5.  Of course it was willingly.  I simply noted their hand was forced by yet another Quarian attempt to kill them.

6.  They killed billions likely because they did not know morality.  They did not know morality because when the Geth were born, the Quarians went straight to kill them all mode.  The issue is not whether what they did was horrific.  It was.  The issue is people expecting them to understand it when they had no ability to learn morality because they were immediately thrown into a war for their existence.  When the Quarians were in full retreat and the Geth saw the threat was over, they thought about it and concluded they should not kill them.  That to me is the first time they had a chance to stop and consider the morality of their actions as prior to that their processing power was wholly consumed by eliminating the threat to their existence.  

7.  If I could kill the Reapers without killing EDI and the Geth, I would.  Either way you are imposing a decision on people.  The difference is with Destroy you impose your decision on people who conveniently you end up wiping from existence so you don't have to hear their complaints versus the other options where for everyone who may not like Synthesis there is probably a guy like Joker who not being injured, sick, or ill anymore or living in constant pain.  So I am not sure how a decision that affects everyone the same and that will have people for and against it is better than a decision that prejudicially marks for extinction a particular group who can't even voice their objection because they are dead.

Modifié par remydat, 01 avril 2013 - 05:30 .

[rrtda]

remydat wrote...

To S.A.K

1. But they were wrong.  There is no denying that.  They attacked a race that had done them no harm.  Admitting that they were wrong for it may result in the Geth admitting to whatever wrong things they did.  That is how you start a dialogue.  Legion fully admits they caused the creators great harm so the Geth are not stupid.  However, it takes two to compromise.

2. And therein lies the problem.  The minute it asks if it has a soul and you know full well you did not program it to ask that, it is no longer equipment.  They wanted to kill them because they knew that the Geth were potentially sentient or on the road to sentience.  They knew there were not just equipment anymore.  

3. When have you seen a nation fight former citizens who cause trouble among their enemies?  The Council Races are their enemies.  They were their enemies from the moment they first banned AI.  Also if the Geth had started a civil war fighting the heretics and Sovereign, do you think the Quarians would refuse to take advantage and attack admist the chaos if they found out about it?  Organics don't risk the safety of their nation to help enemies that would potentially still turn around and attack them while they are trying to help.

3.  Legion was showing the events pre-morning war.  That means the attacks were largely one sided as the morning war doesn't start until the Geth decide to fight back. The only time we see a Geth attack is when that argricultural unit picks up a sniper rifle to defend itself and I presume the only reason we see that is because the implication is that Legion who Shepard remarks is carrying the same sniper rifle was in fact that argricultural unit.  Also, please find me a Quarian account where they explain in detail what occurred during the MW including their crimes.  You are acting like the Quarians were so forthcoming about their crimes.  The only thing they admit to is that they attacked first.  Furthermore Legion does not deny they did the Creators great him and says he accepts the creator's hate.

4. Legion is a machine, I trust his calculations and he has no reason to lie because lying would mean going back to being under Reaper control which is the very thing he betrayed his entire people to rebell against.  So I don't get the logic here.  He just finished helping me kill a sh*t load of Geth and without him the Quarians would like be dead all because he didn't want to be under Reaper control and you want me to believe the Reaper code is dangerous because it might make him Reaper controlled?

5.  Of course it was willingly.  I simply noted their hand was forced by yet another Quarian attempt to kill them.

6.  They killed billions likely because they did not know morality.  They did not know morality because when the Geth were born, the Quarians went straight to kill them all mode.  The issue is not whether what they did was horrific.  It was.  The issue is people expecting them to understand it when they had no ability to learn morality because they were immediately thrown into a war for their existence.  When the Quarians were in full retreat and the Geth saw the threat was over, they thought about it and concluded they should not kill them.  That to me is the first time they had a chance to stop and consider the morality of their actions as prior to that their processing power was wholly consumed by eliminating the threat to their existence.  

7.  If I could kill the Reapers without killing EDI and the Geth, I would.  Either way you are imposing a decision on people.  The difference is with Destroy you impose your decision on people who conveniently you end up wiping from existence so you don't have to hear their complaints versus the other options where for everyone who may not like Synthesis there is probably a guy like Joker who not being injured, sick, or ill anymore or living in constant pain.  So I am not sure how a decision that affects everyone the same and that will have people for and against it is better than a decision that prejudicially marks for extinction a particular group who can't even voice their objection because they are dead.

This mkaes the most sense out of anything of this thread 

[DeinonSlayer]

shodiswe wrote...

It really can't be a coincidence if the council got petition a from Synthetics delivered the same year that the Geth rebelled and eventualy killed or drove off the Quarians from their homeworld in selfdefence..

They weren't Geth. Those were LOKI mechs, individually sapient. The timestamp puts it one year after the conclusion of the Morning War, not during, not before. AI was illegal before the Morning War, but the Council makes exceptions to allow companies like Synthetic Insights to conduct monitored AI research. Humans weren't on the galactic scene yet - given that the mechs had five fingers, that would signify either Batarian or Asari origin (likely the latter, since they have a council seat to begin with). After the Quarians got wiped out, the Council rescinded whatever exception had been made to permit the LOKI's existence and ordered them wiped out as a kneejerk reaction to the extermination they just witnessed on Rannoch.

Maybe the councils reaction is what triggered the "swift" massacre of the Quarrians in the Geths liberation war.

Again, it happened after the Morning War. But you are correct in that it was Council law dictating they be shut down.

Maybe the Geth and synthetics did try to work out a peaceful solution, maybe that's what that council recording shows. They tried to negotiate for peace and their equal rights and they were killed in the atempt. In that case It's not their fault that no progress has been made in 300 years, the Quarians and the council are the ones that initiated the isolation and showed the Geth and all other synthetics to follow that Organics can't be reasoned with.

Already invalidated, but the point remains that organics did send ambassadors to the Geth, and the Geth killed them on sight without so much as a wave-off.

So yes, seeign that, the Quarians needs to die if peace can't be accomplished...

That's a hell of a leap of logic. Need you be reminded that we're talking about people generations removed from those who started the Morning War?

Maybe the death of the Quarians will make thigns more "right", but really peace is what's needed or you will have a conflict like the starwars one where Sith and Jedi kill eachother for all eternity jsut because that's what they have always been doing, it's the natural order of things.

Now you're sounding like Starbrat.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

1. Xen obviously didn;t care either way. Only Koris brought that up, and again, since the Council declared oepn season on the geth three years ago, that treaty is still null and void.

2. Do you want to contact him and ask if he was insulted? I'm sure I know what he's going to say.
And 120+ pages. You think it's easy to go post-to-post?

3. Yet you refused to acknowledge anything but spoken diolouge as cannon before now. You can find alot more lore by looking up the books and comics.

1.  You are not in the game Silver.  Xen and Koris are.  They say it was a treaty violation. 

2.  People are offended about things all the time.  That doesn't actually mean the intent was to be snide or offend.  I don't need to assume or speculate about anything when you called me a ******.  ****** is an insult.  Nothing I said in the post you provided is an insult.  That is how you choose to interpret my words when you can't judge my actual intent nor can you even judge the tone in which I said something because it was written and not verbal.  When I want to be insulting, you will know 100%.  So sorry, you calling me a ****** is not the same as you disagreeing with me and so choosing to interpret neutral words as snide remarks.

3.  This is incorrect.  I said I don't think something in an old book is canon if the later story changed.  I never commented on other books or lore because they were not the topic of discussion.  So you are confusing me with something else.  I have no read these other books and comics so I can't comment on whether they are canon or not because I don't know if there is anythng in them that contradicts the game or not.

Modifié par remydat, 01 avril 2013 - 05:46 .

[Hazegurl]

silverexile17s wrote...
1. Again, wrong. Legion does nothing to disprove Tali's suspicions. Nothing at All.

This is only your opinion and I disagree with it. Tali doesn't dispute Leigon. At all. Like you, she states a bunch of basless theories. She knows nothing of what was going on with the Geth. Period. I believe Leigon, as he knows a heck of a lot more than Tali about what was going on with his own people. I'm not addressing this part anymore. You'll just have to read my past posts or just let it go that you won't convince me. When you actually find proof to back up all your theories besides another theory that is then contradicted in game and the character herself doesn't defend.

2. Again, I repeat, nothing Legion says disproves the idea.

You don't believe anything Leigon says simply because it contradicts the villianous view you wish to maintian about the Geth.  Another topic I am done with and will not repeat myself on.

3. Well, can you tell me any reason why they weren't fighting the Reapers by then?

Why on earth should they run out and attack the Reapers?? Do you see any other race running out gunho to attack Reapers? No. They were preparing for an invasion like everyone else.

4. You switched words around. That sentance was in regard to why Reaper contact pre-Rannoch war was so likely.

I didn't switch anything around. And once again, everything you've posted are your own theories with zero proof to say what did or did not happen. What we do know is that the Geth were perparing for a Reaper invasion, the Qaurians started a war by attacking multiple Geth systems damaging their network. The Reapers extended an offer and the Geth took it. The Reaper signal was controlling the Geth, when you go to Rannoch to destory it, it turned out to be a Reaper. Those are the facts given to us in game. Maybe you can't accept this truth because the Quarians just don't look good, I don't know. You keep stating your theories as fact and act like no one can dispute you on it. Well they can be disputed and I did. Read past posts if you like, but this is another topic I won't repeat myself on. agree to dsagree.

5. To qoute Saren "They believe Sovergien to be some form of God. The pinnicle of their own existance."....

These are beliefs of Geth HERETICS. Why do you keep trying to insinuate that these are the beliefs of every Geth in the story? I guess I should assume that all the Quarians agreed to the war with the Geth because Gerrel and some admirals did. Yep that's what I'm going to do now. Completely ignore the Mass Effect story and just make a claim and stick to it. Koris was 100% for the Geth war. There was no one protesting the war with the Geth, none at all. Every Quarians was onboard completely including Tali. There.

6 Again, you spliced my words. That statement was at the start of my post against you, and it was that you didn't provide any form of proof that the geth were going to proactively wage war on the Reapers, instead of their typacal turtle-up and stonewall behavior to threats.

I don't have to splice your words. I go by what was spoken in game as written by the writers. Leigon said they were preparing for the Reaper attack. Therefore they were preparing to fight Reapers. You claimed otherwise. The burden of proof falls on you.

7. That was YOUR idea, remember? You were the one saying that the geth were going to do exactally that. Now you are questioning why they shouldn't when you were the one that was saying they should and were going to? How does that make any sense? All I have done is show that they likely would never have left the veil. They would try riding out the war, rather then come out and fight, which is what you said they would do if not for the invasion. I asked you why you think the geth were going to leave the Veil and fight the Reapers.

Don't put words in my mouth. I said "They were preparing to fight the Reapers" and you took it to mean that they should just rush to Earth and Palavan and rush out to just fight all the Reapers.  Like any of this makes a lick of sense to do when the Reapers are invading every planet.  This is your so called proof that Leigon was lying to Shepard? You're gonna have to do better than that.

8. You seriously don't see the pattern? Let me clarify.
Every race was actively fighting the Reapers except the geth and the salarians.

No, not every race was actively fighting the reapers, not in the same way you claim the Geth should do. The other races were fighting invasions on their own planets and colonies. They had no choice but to fight. The Asari would not come to Earth's aid because they knew that while the Reapers were busying themselves killing humans they would have time to prepare their own homeworld for attack. The Krogan would not even enter the fight to save their own home world without a genophage cure. Name one race running out to go toe-to-toe with the Reapers like you claim the Geth should. None. The only time this happens is when Shepard pools everyone together at the end of the game.

And again, the quarian have no where else to go.

Then just say that this is your reason as to why the Quarians are justified in attacking the Geth to reclaim their home world. Personally, I think its a stupid move. They should have followed Tali and Koris' advice. But nope big dumb Gerrel rules the roost.

12. Well, look at Legion's actions. Prefrences, qurks. Actions driven by forces it doesn't understand (hiding the upgrades from Shepard, retaining possession of Shepard's armor fragement, ect). Even a direct admission of how it admires the concept of hope sustaining people in difficult times. Legion is alive. And living beings feel. If any geth had emotions, it was Legion.

And I disagree. And even so, if Leigon feels shame the same way a human does, it still has nothing at all to do with the Geth siding with the Reapers.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 01 avril 2013 - 06:01 .

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

Not again dude. Some animals are self-aware and it is nothing new. Search a bit for more info. They don't have to ask does this unit have a soul to be considered self-aware. Have occured to you animals can't f*cking talk? As said in game, single geth units are no more intelligent than animals. But they have the ability to talk. And I am not gonna start a religious debate with you.
Ok screw this. Geth have been nothing but trouble sinse the day they started thinking. All they have done so far is killing, killing and some more killing. So I am not gonna even think about siding with those murder machines over Quarians or even Pyjaks for that matter.
<_<

And again, we are using the terms differently.  When I use terms such as self-aware, sentitent, sapient, I am referring to an organism having the ability to ponder it's own existence.  A soul is the part of us that is immortal.  It lives on after death.  So pondering whether you have a soul is indicative that you have reached a level of consciousness beyond that of basic biological survival.  It suggests you are pondering the metaphysical.  That is the distiction I was trying to make not using self-aware in the sense of an animal being able to recognize itself in the mirror as opposed to thinking it is another animal they are seeing.

And again, if an animal does possess that ability to ponder what happens to it when it dies and we decide to kill it because we see it as a threat then if we get killed then we have no one but ourselves to blame for antagonizing it.

The Geth have been trouble since the Quarians tried to kill them not when they started thinking.  They started thinking and merely asked a question.  You specifically asked me to answer you questions and I did. 

You asked me to answer your questions, I did.  If you did not want to engage in a debate then you could have said "screw those evil toasters," and be done with it. 

[remydat]

Argolas wrote...

You know what is striking about this conflict? The Quarians can be convinced to back off, the Geth can't. You either let Legion upload REAPER codes to ALL Geth or kill him. My Shepard can't metagame that this would go well and has no reason to believe it would, so he is not going to let it happen.

You are confusing two completely separate issues.  The conflict between the Geth vs Quarians has nothing to do with the Reaper Code.  It has to do with whether the Quarians will stop shooting at defenseless Geth ships.  If they do, peace happens and if they don't someone has to die.  The Quarians have to be convinced not the Geth.

Unless you are telling me that Shep deciding not to upload the Reaper Code will not give synthetics a right to decide which organic threats it deems orgnanics should not have then it is an unfair request.  Organics have created far more threats to the Galaxy than synthetics and I don't recall them consulting a synthetic about it. 

[remydat]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

And just how do you know that? Did you talk to them? On the other hand, I don't ponder whether I have a soul so maybe that criteria is a bit limited.

But your species does to the point we have killed over it.  The issue is not one of whether an individual ponders it but whether the species has the ability to do so.  You clearly do whether you choose to engage in such a discussion or not. 

The fact you understand what we are talking about and can say you don't ponder it is indicative that you have in fact pondered it and decided it is not worth your time to think about further.