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[robertthebard]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

So what do you think about this:

The Geth have no specific requirements of where they live as long as the conditions aren't too extreme. The Quarians would probably need dozens of generations to adapt to a new homeworld other than Rannoch. Did the Geth seriously expect the Quarians would not get back at them? The Geth could go anywhere, the Quarians can't...

The quarians didn't begin with weird immune systems. In fact, the explanation for that is rather odd. They wrecked their immune systems within the sterile environment of the flotilla... but now they wear suits on the flotilla, the environment they adapted to in the first place? How can it be sterile if they still need suits there? I think the geth just didn't count on the power of Plot crushing quarian immune systems.

. They wear the suits on the flotilla out of tradition.  Stupid excuse yes, but it is given.

Actually, the tradition line is in response to not needing the suits once they adapt to Rannoch again.

[Steelcan]

remydat wrote...

The Civilians Fleet should have stood up for their beliefs then.  Legion didn't want the Reaper Code and he rebelled against his whole race.  Am I suppose to kill the Geth because Admiral Koris and company valued consensus over doing the right thing?

.  Legion doesn't seem to have an issue with the Reaper code.....

And what do you expect the civilians to do? Leave their warships so they can ripped apart by Reapers?

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

So what do you think about this:

The Geth have no specific requirements of where they live as long as the conditions aren't too extreme. The Quarians would probably need dozens of generations to adapt to a new homeworld other than Rannoch. Did the Geth seriously expect the Quarians would not get back at them? The Geth could go anywhere, the Quarians can't...

The quarians didn't begin with weird immune systems. In fact, the explanation for that is rather odd. They wrecked their immune systems within the sterile environment of the flotilla... but now they wear suits on the flotilla, the environment they adapted to in the first place? How can it be sterile if they still need suits there? I think the geth just didn't count on the power of Plot crushing quarian immune systems.

. They wear the suits on the flotilla out of tradition.  Stupid excuse yes, but it is given.

But... why... how... why would they design the flotilla to be unliveably sterile to begin with, such that they'd have to decontaminate everyone coming off of the Normandy? That ship evidently wasn't "clean," despite being in space, so what short-sighted germophobes designed the Migrant Fleet?

[Steelcan]

robertthebard 
Actually, the tradition line is in response to not needing the suits once they adapt to Rannoch again.

. You're thinking of so wing else.  They stil, wear the suits on the flotilla.  That is their 'reason' for it.

Modifié par Steelcan, 02 avril 2013 - 07:42 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

But... why... how... why would they design the flotilla to be unliveably sterile to begin with, such that they'd have to decontaminate everyone coming off of the Normandy? That ship evidently wasn't "clean," despite being in space, so what short-sighted germophobes designed the Migrant Fleet?

. Space is sterile.  But the inside of ships aren't.  They would be carrying pathogens potentially fatal to Quarian physiology.

besides, the Migrant fleet wasnt designed.  It was kind of put together so they don't get blasted out of the sky.

[shodiswe]

Steelcan wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

No, the Geth were defenselessly being grinded by the Quarians warmachine whiel they were trying ot initiate contact with the Quarians and the Galactic council. When the Quarians shot their emisaries and ignored their pleas and the citadel council did the same they realized it was hopeless and released chemical and bilogical weaons to fight of an otherwise vastly superior enemy force....

. Ummm. Source?

Geth server, that geth that told it's Quarian friend it would surender itself to the soldiers if it would stop the fighting. They wern't really fighting back. But eventualy apparently the Geth choose to fight back. The citadel archives shows AI's petitioning the Council the same year that the Quarians were wiped out, the Council's guards used bullets against the unarmed mechs, the synthetic emisaries were killed. 99% of the Quarian population died that same year. Peaceful negotiations failed and the agressors were almost wiped out. The Geth wen't from hiding and avoiding Quarian patrol to wiping out most of the "enemy" population in less than a year.
It was said the war caused a lot of damage to theQuarian homeworld still Legion in ME2 on Tuchanka says the Quarians didn't use weapons of massdesruction on their own world.
I'm guessing it was the Geth's desperation that suddenly wiped out most of the Quarian population and we all know Weapons of massdestruction arn't selective. This is what make them so horrendrous. Just like the Destroy option.

[Khelish]

Steelcan wrote...

remydat wrote...

The Civilians Fleet should have stood up for their beliefs then.  Legion didn't want the Reaper Code and he rebelled against his whole race.  Am I suppose to kill the Geth because Admiral Koris and company valued consensus over doing the right thing?

.  Legion doesn't seem to have an issue with the Reaper code.....

And what do you expect the civilians to do? Leave their warships so they can ripped apart by Reapers?

Exactly this.

You expect the Quarian fleet to seperate? Just to be killed by Reapers?

Remy, letting Tali die is a fail in and of itself. You can love her all you want, but the truth is, if you pick the Geth over her people, she leaves you. Sad but true.

[remydat]

Steelcan wrote...

Legion doesn't seem to have an issue with the Reaper code.....

And what do you expect the civilians to do? Leave their warships so they can ripped apart by Reapers?

Legion doesn't have a problem with becoming an individual using a code that cannot control him.  And Legion was willing to die for his principles.  That is what courage is about.  If Koris and company refused to involve the liveships then I don't think Gherel can do jack sh*t.  We will never know because no one had the courage to stand up for their beliefs.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

robertthebard wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Heeeeeeeeey Xilizhra you might want to cut back on all the unpleasantness.

I'm not a monster for destroying the Reapers, you aren't a monster for picking whichever non-red ending you pick so let's just have everyone take a chill pill and kick a Volus or something.

I've always wondered, instead of tossing dwarves, since they don't really have any, do they toss Volus instead?

Probably.

Though I've got to say ME3 actually made me respect the Volus. (At least a hell of a lot more than the Asari) The puffballs really stepped up to the plate when it counted.

[Steelcan]

shodiswe wrote...

Geth server, that geth that told it's Quarian friend it would surender itself to the soldiers if it would stop the fighting. They wern't really fighting back. But eventualy apparently the Geth choose to fight back. The citadel archives shows AI's petitioning the Council the same year that the Quarians were wiped out, the Council's guards used bullets against the unarmed mechs, the synthetic emisaries were killed. 99% of the Quarian population died that same year. Peaceful negotiations failed and the agressors were almost wiped out. The Geth wen't from hiding and avoiding Quarian patrol to wiping out most of the "enemy" population in less than a year.
It was said the war caused a lot of damage to theQuarian homeworld still Legion in ME2 on Tuchanka says the Quarians didn't use weapons of massdesruction on their own world.
I'm guessing it was the Geth's desperation that suddenly wiped out most of the Quarian population and we all know Weapons of massdestruction arn't selective. This is what make them so horrendrous. Just like the Destroy option.

. You are a special kind of stupid aren't you.  

The Citadel Archives are dated one year after the morning war.  There was never any indication of peaceful negotiations on either side.  There were no "synthetic emissaries".  You are pulling stuff out of thin at to try and justify genocide.

[Steelcan]

remydat wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Legion doesn't seem to have an issue with the Reaper code.....

And what do you expect the civilians to do? Leave their warships so they can ripped apart by Reapers?

Legion doesn't have a problem with becoming an individual using a code that cannot control him.  And Legion was willing to die for his principles.  That is what courage is about.  If Koris and company refused to involve the liveships then I don't think Gherel can do jack sh*t.  We will never know because no one had the courage to stand up for their beliefs.

. That's essentially refuse on a smaller scale.  I'm going to be moral, so I condemn every quarian to death.  And yes we can see that Koris and Tali stood up, so did civilian captains.  They just had no alternative,

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

Remy, letting Tali die is a fail in and of itself. You can love her all you want, but the truth is, if you pick the Geth over her people, she leaves you. Sad but true.

Do you know how many people in this war lost loved ones.  War is tragic.  Am I suppose to think Shep should be immune from it?

Sure I wish Tali didn't do it.  Sure I wish I had realized what she was thinking and grabbed her before she fell.  But she did and I didn't and that's life bro.  Sometimes love turns to heartbreak and you got to pick up the pieces and still save the Galaxy.

[Khelish]

remydat wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Remy, letting Tali die is a fail in and of itself. You can love her all you want, but the truth is, if you pick the Geth over her people, she leaves you. Sad but true.

Do you know how many people in this war lost loved ones.  War is tragic.  Am I suppose to think Shep should be immune from it?

Sure I wish Tali didn't do it.  Sure I wish I had realized what she was thinking and grabbed her before she fell.  But she did and I didn't and that's life bro.  Sometimes love turns to heartbreak and you got to pick up the pieces and still save the Galaxy.

Because stabbing your girlfriends entire race in the back is going to be fine with her... 

How could you not realize siding with the Geth would hurt Tali? You sir, are no Talimancer.

[Hazegurl]

silverexile17s wrote...
11.www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj2ouvzjTNc
Play from 11:25. He concedes that the geth need to be stopped.

How would Tali know that? Is she a part of the consensus?
The actions of the Heretics are theirs alone. The rest of the Geth shouldn't be lumped together with them.

You're right, no one has a reason to trust Leigon or the Geth and I never said they should. Leigon says that the Geth accepts the hatred of organics.

It would be stupid to rush off to fight the Reapers head on with no clear plan to destory them. The only reason why it makes sense for everyone to come together to fight them at the end is because of the Crucible.

You're right, not even I can fault the Quarians completely for not trusting in Geth peace yet they refuse to see how there own actions is the cause of this.  To not even try is stupid. The Reapers are coming, getting back Rannoch by force is foolish at this point, and they can't afford to waste resources like this. Trying for peace was the best course of action.

The physical proof is a Quarian and Geth living onboard a ship together, making peace, and fighting collectors together. The proof is in said Quarian who begs her people for peace. You have to start somewhere.

I'm sure Gerrel was the most gunho for war out of everyone. And I'm sure Tali told everyone there that geth heretics were responsible for the Citadel and joining Sovereign and how the Geth wanted them dealt with. 

Why would the Geth care if Shepard was killed they didn't think they needed him for some reason? and if Shepard couldn't help put in a word for them because they are determined to consider the Geth as enemies then there is no reason for the Geth to go out of there way to help them when they need aid, nor contact them to clarify anything. Leigon acknowledges that it takes both sides for peace to be achieved. how can the Geth work toward peace by themselves?

I can't argue a kill on sight order. It is another reason why the Geth would be fools to go to them.

Thanks for the video, but all he says is "We know" It doesn't mention shame or thinking they were wrong. Just that they need to be shut down.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 02 avril 2013 - 07:53 .

[remydat]

Steelcan wrote...

That's essentially refuse on a smaller scale.  I'm going to be moral, so I condemn every quarian to death.  And yes we can see that Koris and Tali stood up, so did civilian captains.  They just had no alternative,

Lies, their alternative was to rebell.  That is always the option for a people dissatisfied with their government.  By this logic Legion should have let the Quarians die because his people decided to side with the Reapers.  He didn't he rebelled.

Koris or Tali could have called Shep and said the Quarians are planning a stupid war.  They could have refuses to support it.  They choose consensus.  Legion refused consensus.  The organics choose to fall in line.  The synthetic choose to be an individual.

[shodiswe]

The Quarians and the council did the misstake to giving their oponent no option to back down. It wasn't a war and the "Organics" didn't want peace they didn't even offer terms or the chance to present their case. All they knew was violence.

The Geth faced a superior force that threated their very survival and eventualy when neither the Quarians or the Council would listen to them they picked the Destroy option they had, and upfortunately for the Quarians they had no Cotnrol or synthesis option.
This left us with a fleet of Quarian military ships and descendants of warcriminals who told their children to hate the Geth and all synthetics, and the Geth desperation and argualy desperate "warcrime in the name of selfdefence" only strengthed those beliefs. If they hand't forced the Quarians into a retreat then they would have been wiped out.
Their only chance was using this one weakness the Quarians had, their weak immunesystem and environmental vulnerability.

After the council used bullets to silence the synthetics peaceenvoys, one can't expect the Geth to treat their enemies any better. For the Geth 300 years isn't a lot of time, most of the Geth fro the mourning wars would still be around even if there are newer generations from the post mourning war era.
When one side keeps shooting at the other sides negotiators then they can't blame the other side from distrusting them and doign the same.

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

So what do you think about this:

The Geth have no specific requirements of where they live as long as the conditions aren't too extreme. The Quarians would probably need dozens of generations to adapt to a new homeworld other than Rannoch. Did the Geth seriously expect the Quarians would not get back at them? The Geth could go anywhere, the Quarians can't...

The quarians didn't begin with weird immune systems. In fact, the explanation for that is rather odd. They wrecked their immune systems within the sterile environment of the flotilla... but now they wear suits on the flotilla, the environment they adapted to in the first place? How can it be sterile if they still need suits there? I think the geth just didn't count on the power of Plot crushing quarian immune systems.

But this is the only explanation why the Quarians didn't colonize another world. I'm sure the council would have granted them that much, and if not they could still take their chances with the Terminus systems. And I thought their immune system was screwed even before the Geth drove them out because, like, the environmental effects on Rannoch were all at least partly beneficial for Quarians and that's why their immune system never grew?

[Steelcan]

remydat wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

That's essentially refuse on a smaller scale.  I'm going to be moral, so I condemn every quarian to death.  And yes we can see that Koris and Tali stood up, so did civilian captains.  They just had no alternative,

Lies, their alternative was to rebell.  That is always the option for a people dissatisfied with their government.  By this logic Legion should have let the Quarians die because his people decided to side with the Reapers.  He didn't he rebelled.

Koris or Tali could have called Shep and said the Quarians are planning a stupid war.  They could have refuses to support it.  They choose consensus.  Legion refused consensus.  The organics choose to fall in line.  The synthetic choose to be an individual.

. So once again, they should have opened themselves up to destruction via Reaper.

And Koris still opposes the invasion, he is doing everything he can to keep civilians safe, so is Tali.  If they had "rebelled" they'd have been left helpless.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

If you didn't give Legion to Cerberus you are doing it wrong.

;_;

I can't do it.


Plus derperus is...derperus.

[Steelcan]

shodiswe wrote...


After the council used bullets to silence the synthetics peaceenvoys, one can't expect the Geth to treat their enemies any better. For the Geth 300 years isn't a lot of time, most of the Geth fro the mourning wars would still be around even if there are newer generations from the post mourning war era.
When one side keeps shooting at the other sides negotiators then they can't blame the other side from distrusting them and doign the same.

my ou have no evidence that these are "synthetic envoys". That is your head canon and as such is not evidence.

[Ryzaki]

Khelish wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

remydat wrote...

The Civilians Fleet should have stood up for their beliefs then.  Legion didn't want the Reaper Code and he rebelled against his whole race.  Am I suppose to kill the Geth because Admiral Koris and company valued consensus over doing the right thing?

.  Legion doesn't seem to have an issue with the Reaper code.....

And what do you expect the civilians to do? Leave their warships so they can ripped apart by Reapers?

Exactly this.

You expect the Quarian fleet to seperate? Just to be killed by Reapers?

Remy, letting Tali die is a fail in and of itself. You can love her all you want, but the truth is, if you pick the Geth over her people, she leaves you. Sad but true.

That's assuming you give a damn about Tali.

Some of my Sheps don't.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 avril 2013 - 07:57 .

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

If you didn't give Legion to Cerberus you are doing it wrong.

;_;

I can't do it.


Plus derperus is...derperus.

.  

Modifié par Steelcan, 02 avril 2013 - 07:57 .

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

Because stabbing your girlfriends entire race in the back is going to be fine with her... 

How could you not realize siding with the Geth would hurt Tali? You sir, are no Talimancer.

I stabbed no one in the back.  An order was given to stand down when the enemy was defenseless.  They refused it.  They chose their own destruction.  I am not responible for Admirals not being able to communicate with each other.

Of course it would hurt Tali.  Clearly I didn't realize she would jump off a cliff.  I don't decide the fate of the galaxy based on personal emotions and benefit.  Choosing the Quarians just because I love Tali would be inappropriate.

And this is obviously just a hypothetical.  If I was really faced with such a decision where peace was not an option, there is no guarantee I wouldn't in a moment of weakness look into Tali's eyes and abandon all principle and morals and choose her people simply because I love her.  I would do so though knowing full well I was betraying my own ideals.

Modifié par remydat, 02 avril 2013 - 07:59 .

[Ryzaki]

Steel I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't have such a hilarious fail rate.

[shodiswe]

remydat wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Legion doesn't seem to have an issue with the Reaper code.....

And what do you expect the civilians to do? Leave their warships so they can ripped apart by Reapers?

Legion doesn't have a problem with becoming an individual using a code that cannot control him.  And Legion was willing to die for his principles.  That is what courage is about.  If Koris and company refused to involve the liveships then I don't think Gherel can do jack sh*t.  We will never know because no one had the courage to stand up for their beliefs.

I don't think it was the Reapercode that made Legion an individual, that was normal Geth evolution. The Geth VI never becomes an individual it always remains a personality construct, Legion created a concious self and a subconcious self independent of eachother just like human and other organics.
The parts and pieces were still there but they became a subconcious process that the concious self didnt' have to keep track of, all it needed to know was the sum of the equations. Thus he became one inidividual.
The Geth VI never refers to itself as I and the Geth prime refers to it as a personality construct while Legion was a simular entitity an it not a construct.

The Reaper code was more like a driver that streamlined processes just like new gfx drivers improves performance and efficiency in graphics computations and processes freeign additional computing power.