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[NCommand]

Rhayak wrote...

NCommand wrote...
Billions of Quarians beg the differ

If you attempt to exterminate another race just because you're not ok with it being sentient, and it reacts symmetrically, you have brought it upon yourself.

Many Quarians tried to prevent the madness, and were silenced like in the worst dictatorships.

Then what makes the Geth different from Skynet? Both are trying to preserve itself by exterminating its creators, and the Quarians were not shutting the Geth down because they have something against them being sentient, but because they know sentient machines are dangerous, they make dangerous decisions, like killing every man, woman and child, and continously siding with the Reapers

[o Ventus]

Iamjdr wrote...

Skynet was not a plane skynet was military defense network hence it had access to all there missiles and the Geth and skynet have a lot in common Actually. They both become self aware on there own, Bot had there creators try to turn them off and both refuse resulting in the almost complete eradication of there creator species becoming the dominant force of there respective planets. Just because the terminators never drove humans offworld doesn't make it much different and I can assure you we soul make many attempts to retake our homeworld from terminators so why wouldn't the quarians.

The similarities aren't incidental. One of the main influences on the geth WAS Skynet.

[Fixers0]

o Ventus wrote...

Considering that literally every geth you encounter (other than Legion) in ME1 and 2 is a heretic, I think you meant to say "right".

False, considering the fact that the Geth heretics can be rewritten before the broken arrow incident and that regeradless of time or choice these Geth appear as hostile to the Alliance/Shepard it's a save bet that the Geth force invading the Pylos Nebula belong to the "true Geth".

[Rhayak]

If Skynet killed every last human on Earth, but left the International Space Station and a pilot colony on Mars alone, they would match what the Geth did. We see Skynet while the extermination is ongoing. We see the Geth centuries after the fact.

Yeah the final outcome is similar but you really can't compare Skynet to the Geth. The former reacted to a mere deactivation request by indirectly murdering 3 billion people. The latter simply took arms against a foe that was going from house to house, exterminating them all.

Modifié par Rhayak, 17 mars 2013 - 04:37 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Rhayak wrote...

NCommand wrote...
Billions of Quarians beg the differ

If you attempt to exterminate another race just because you're not ok with it being sentient, and it reacts symmetrically, you have brought it upon yourself.

So Skynet was right, then? Good to know.

Rhayak wrote...

Many Quarians tried to prevent the madness, and were silenced like in the worst dictatorships.

How many, again? We have no solid numbers, only a source with a vested interest in gaining sympathy which itself does not claim they were all killed by their own government. The Geth VI (more representative of the Geth mindset when this was happening) doesn't even acknowledge them, and has no qualms about killing them all - including those like Koris who it knows are sympathetic to it.

[Iamjdr]

I know that. Tell that to everyone saying the quarians are jerks so we should let these glorified terminators kill every last Quarian man, woman and child. The Geth don't even have babies! Or Elderly but it's okay cause once they have reaper code they are ALIVE!!!!!!

Modifié par Iamjdr, 17 mars 2013 - 04:40 .

[Rhayak]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

NCommand wrote...
Billions of Quarians beg the differ

If you attempt to exterminate another race just because you're not ok with it being sentient, and it reacts symmetrically, you have brought it upon yourself.

So Skynet was right, then? Good to know.

Rhayak wrote...

Many Quarians tried to prevent the madness, and were silenced like in the worst dictatorships.

How many, again? We have no solid numbers, only a source with a vested interest in gaining sympathy which itself does not claim they were all killed by their own government. The Geth VI (more representative of the Geth mindset when this was happening) doesn't even acknowledge them, and has no qualms about killing them all - including those like Koris who it knows are sympathetic to it.

please read above

[Fixers0]

Rhayak wrote...
But that means you feel contempt for every single civilization....

I wouldn't blame an Alliance MP for the excutions of Batarians PoW at Torfan, that's irrational, the Geth on the other hand, are a collective, which appearantly approved of the invasion of the Pylos Nebula and the massacre of the Broken Arrow's Crew.

Rhayak wrote...
Either way, it's of little relevance.

Indeed.

[DeinonSlayer]

Rhayak wrote...

If Skynet killed every last human on Earth, but left the International Space Station and a pilot colony on Mars alone, they would match what the Geth did. We see Skynet while the extermination is ongoing. We see the Geth centuries after the fact.

Yeah the final outcome is similar but you really can't compare Skynet to the Geth. The former reacted to a mere deactivation request by indirectly murdering 3 billion people. The latter simply took arms against a foe that was going from house to house, exterminating them all.

They used enough "toxins" that they're still cleaning them up three centuries later. We're talking about the VI's geth, not Legion. The VI makes it clear they deemed the entire Quarian species a "threat," and acted to eliminate that threat until it ceased to be a threat. They didn't acknowledge those who were sympathetic to them then, and they don't now if you have the VI with you - they kill both indiscriminately.

[o Ventus]

Fixers0 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Considering that literally every geth you encounter (other than Legion) in ME1 and 2 is a heretic, I think you meant to say "right".

False, considering the fact that the Geth heretics can be rewritten before the broken arrow incident and that regeradless of time or choice these Geth appear as hostile to the Alliance/Shepard it's a save bet that the Geth force invading the Pylos Nebula belong to the "true Geth".

You must be in good shape, doing those mental gymnastics.

[Fixers0]

o Ventus wrote...

You must be in good shape, doing those mental gymnastics.

That's my job.

[Da Don Giovanni]

o Ventus wrote...

Considering that literally every geth you encounter (other than Legion) in ME1 and 2 is a heretic, I think you meant to say "right".

Each Geth will be independent after the Reaper upgrades. Making them Like EDI, and she chooses to fight with the Normandy, even though EDI know's that the Reapers will probably win.  That is FREE WILL. You can't assume every Geth will still talk to each other and decide to side with Harbinger. They've already figured out that the "Old Machines" will wipe them out! They have a HUGE incentive to work WITH organics and not against them, but ONLY with the Reaper upgrades.

/Boom.

[Rhayak]

Fixers0 wrote...
I wouldn't blame an Alliance MP for the excutions of Batarians PoW at Torfan, that's irrational, the Geth on the other hand, are a collective, which appearantly approved of the invasion of the Pylos Nebula and the massacre of the Broken Arrow's Crew.

The collective is not omni-present. Executing the crew was an autonomous decision of that particular Geth group.

Which fits more with the Heretics version of a given playthrough. Them being, as said, far more aggressive.

[Abraham_uk]

Geth always

[DeinonSlayer]

Rhayak wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
I wouldn't blame an Alliance MP for the excutions of Batarians PoW at Torfan, that's irrational, the Geth on the other hand, are a collective, which appearantly approved of the invasion of the Pylos Nebula and the massacre of the Broken Arrow's Crew.

The collective is not omni-present. Executing the crew was an autonomous decision of that particular Geth group.

Which fits more with the Heretics version of a given playthrough. Them being, as said, far more aggressive.

And the True Geth let them run around and do their thing for over two years without even telling the wider galaxy that the Heretics didn't represent them. They only took action against the Heretics when they, themselves, were threatened by them. At least the Batarian Hegemony made the effort to (falsely or not) deny responsibility for terrorist acts committed in their name.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 mars 2013 - 04:57 .

[Rhayak]

They used enough "toxins" that they're still cleaning them up three centuries later. We're talking about the VI's geth, not Legion. The VI makes it clear they deemed the entire Quarian species a "threat," and acted to eliminate that threat until it ceased to be a threat. They didn't acknowledge those who were sympathetic to them then, and they don't now if you have the VI with you - they kill both indiscriminately.

I was talking about how the war started, and how that makes the Geth different from Skynet.

Also, they're the only ones who remember those Quarians who died to protect them.

[Slayer299]

@Auld Wolf - Where do you get this weird concept that I am xenophobic because I dont like the geth? Also, I was talking about the geth/quarians actions during the MW not the present with Gerrel/Xen. Lastly, stop with the trolling response. None of what I was saying was hatred/xenophobia, just you making inflammatory comments to provoke an equally angry reply from me.

[o Ventus]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

And the True Geth let them run around and do their thing for over two years without even telling the wider galaxy that the Heretics didn't represent them. They only took action against the Heretics when they, themselves, were threatened by them. At least the Batarian Hegemony made the effort to deny responsibility for terrorist acts committed in their name.

>Applying human logic to alien machines

[Iamjdr]

What it fits is the galaxies view of the Geth as murderous killbots. which is never even attempted to be disproven by the "true Geth." speeking of "true Geth" wouldn't all Geth now be considered heretics since they all now believe they need reaper upgrades to be alive?

[Rhayak]

And the True Geth let them run around and do their thing for over two years without even telling the wider galaxy that the Heretics didn't represent them. They only took action against the Heretics when they, themselves, were threatened by them. At least the Batarian Hegemony made the effort to (falsely or not) deny responsibility for terrorist acts committed in their name.

"Organics fear us"

You can't warn someone of a danger if they can't even hear you over all the shooting.

The True Geth policy was to remain isolated for maximum safety. The Heretics went away because the True respected their decision and could not foresee their attempts at infecting them later.

[o Ventus]

Iamjdr wrote...

What it fits is the galaxies view of the Geth as murderous killbots. which is never even attempted to be disproven by the "true Geth." speeking of "true Geth" wouldn't all Geth now be considered heretics since they all now believe they need reaper upgrades to be alive?

They took the Reaper upgrades so they could fight off the quarians. It wasn't an issue of belief, it was necessity.

[DeinonSlayer]

o Ventus wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

And the True Geth let them run around and do their thing for over two years without even telling the wider galaxy that the Heretics didn't represent them. They only took action against the Heretics when they, themselves, were threatened by them. At least the Batarian Hegemony made the effort to deny responsibility for terrorist acts committed in their name.

>Applying human logic to alien machines

That's like saying slavery is OK because Batarians aren't human. Either they're equal in moral consideration, or they aren't. Other human societies have no moral restrictions against cannibalism; that doesn't mean I'm forbidden to judge them for it.

[o Ventus]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

That's like saying slavery is OK because Batarians aren't human. Either they're equal in moral consideration, or they aren't. Other human societies have no moral restrictions against cannibalism; that doesn't mean I'm forbidden to judge them for it.

Slavery is literally the foundation of batarian economy and society.

You aren't forbidden to judge them, but your judgements are fallacious and inapplicable .

[DeinonSlayer]

Rhayak wrote...

And the True Geth let them run around and do their thing for over two years without even telling the wider galaxy that the Heretics didn't represent them. They only took action against the Heretics when they, themselves, were threatened by them. At least the Batarian Hegemony made the effort to (falsely or not) deny responsibility for terrorist acts committed in their name.

"Organics fear us"

What did they expect? They killed every emissary ever sent to make peaceful contact with them.

You can't warn someone of a danger if they can't even hear you over all the shooting.

That's just lame. The Geth never even tried to communicate for three hundred years.

The True Geth policy was to remain isolated for maximum safety. The Heretics went away because the True respected their decision and could not foresee their attempts at infecting them later.

Like I said. They ignored the problem for years until, suddenly, it turned around and came right back at them.

[Khelish]

o Ventus wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

That's like saying slavery is OK because Batarians aren't human. Either they're equal in moral consideration, or they aren't. Other human societies have no moral restrictions against cannibalism; that doesn't mean I'm forbidden to judge them for it.

Slavery is literally the foundation of batarian economy and society.

And that makes it OK?